Impact of nVidia Turing RayTracing enhanced GPUs on next-gen consoles *spawn

Discussion in 'Console Technology' started by vipa899, Aug 18, 2018.

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  1. Heinrich4

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    Actually not very clear and only foreseen for Vega 20 7nm, but maybe we have some idea of what could be used in the called "secret souce".

    AMD on Computex.jpeg
     
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  2. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    You sure? I remember RT-patches being just a quick answer when ATI brought in N-Patches (also supported by Matrox IIRC?) even if the hardware it was brought for was older than R8500. The support was also short-lived as it's performance was nothing short of catastrophe, so much so one asks if it was just software solution
     
  3. function

    function None functional
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    GTX 2080/2808Ti is a beast fast enough to run multiplatform games at full whack and with new bells and whistles on top. But it does that with a frikkin' humongous die.

    What I'm most interested in seeing is how a 200mm^2 (for example) Turing GPU fares against other 200mm^2 gpus (as contemporary as possible).When you're already deep into compromise territory - running below native res, with dynamic scaling or sub 30 fps, and with middling settings - I want to see if the die area lost for Tensor cores is a net gain.

    Hopefully it is. Or perhaps - for consoles - the area and design work is best used somewhere else.

    I have a bad feeling we aren't going to see Navi till 2020, which may hinder comparisons in PC land.
     
  4. BRiT

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  5. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    Current forecast suggests there won't be more Turings but refreshed Pascals, of course this could be wrong.

    Vega 20 is coming around new years or early Q1, AMD has already confirmed that gaming 7nm is coming shortly after and that Navi is one of their "Initial 7nm lineup", which means it's coming in 2019 and most likely during H1
     
  6. DavidGraham

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    Highly unlikely. Navi will come after Rome and Ryzen, likely at the end of 2019. I remember reading an AMD official stating the same thing.
     
  7. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    Latest thing AMD has said about Navi:
    AMD’s next major milestone is the introduction of our upcoming 7nm product portfolio, including the initial products with our second generation “Zen 2” CPU core and our new “Navi” GPU architecture.
     
  8. DavidGraham

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    This is a transcript of AMD's CFO "Devinder Kumar" conference call to Deutsche Bank.

    They are not going to launch Navi and waste capacity at something that may or may not compete with NVIDIA, they would rather fight it out with Intel while they still have the superior position. So Vega 20 will be a pipecleaner, then comes Rome, then Ryzen 3000 then Navi.
     
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  9. Malo

    Malo Yak Mechanicum
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    Makes sense to prioritize products that can compete well in profitable areas.
     
  10. Kaotik

    Kaotik Drunk Member
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    Based on AMDs earlier schedule Ryzen 3000 should come in late Q1, which still leaves time for Navi in H1. My earlier copy/paste was quote from AMD Q2 quarterly call and I don't think they could justify Navi being "initial 7nm product" if it was coming nearly a year or over a year later than their first 7nm product.
     
  11. DavidGraham

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    Highly unlikely, they will flood the channel with server CPUs to capitalize on Intel's absence. The server side is where the money is made.
    Again very HIGHLY unlikely for the same reason above. 7nm capacity is very limited, and is under stiff competition from NVIDIA, AMD, Apple, and Qualcomm. They can't have too many chips shipping in a tight timeframe, this will massively affect their supply.
    Yes it could, AMD has always been loose about their timelines in an effort to not piss investors off. Initial 7nm products is a term that could cover an entire year worth of products.
     
  12. trinibwoy

    trinibwoy Meh
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    AMD could surprise us all but given their recent execution on GPU products it doesn’t seem wise to be overly optimistic on timing of any releases. Navi in H1 2019 would be fantastic but where there’s no smoke...
     
  13. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    ...there's a Bunsen burner with a good airflow, 100% combustion, and a clean, blue flame, with no smoke particles being generated.

    You don't need a fire to be the cause of smoke, and you don't have to generate smoke from fire, so the smoke situation doesn't always illustrate the combustion situation.
     
  14. Tkumpathenurpahl

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    Neeeeeeeeeerd
     
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  15. trinibwoy

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    Lol he’s right though.
     
  16. Alucardx23

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    Check this out Shifty. This has me really excited. 95% of the pixels in this example are not rendered and then the empty space is filled by a deep learning algorithm. This makes me think how a VR headset or AR glasses with eye tracking could be used as a screen for traditional console/gaming PCs, to greatly increase performance.

     
    #376 Alucardx23, Sep 28, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2018
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  17. Shifty Geezer

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    Posted in other RT thread...
    9.2 ms, over half the rendering budget, on the fastest RT GPU. 2.3 ms for shadows and 2.5 ms for denoising, and apparently this is overall GPU time being eaten into and not with denoising happening parallel.independently of the shaders. If denoising is preventing you from shading, that's 30% of the rendering budget gone on 1080p60 shadows.

    I think this speaks volumes about the cost/benefit ratio being completely off for next-gen consoles. If RT is going to happen in consoles, it needs to be something very different to RTX.
     
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  18. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    @ultragpu DXR on a Titan V. I'm waiting to see the results on a RTX card.
    That doesn't include 2 additional years of driver improvement with DXR.
    Show me rasterization that does this.

     
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  19. Karamazov

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    i could see ND trying to implement some form of RT only during their cutscenes.
     
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  20. iroboto

    iroboto Daft Funk
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    I think there is ample time by 2020 to have something more mature in this space.
    By that, I don't just mean the hardware. I mean the way DXR and DX12 interact. And things could be different in the console space. There are quite a few custom features in DX12_X that don't exist in DX12; ie more features with executeIndirect, more flags and counters, more ability to expose the hardware etc.

    The reason I'm back on the RT for next gen, is because I've been looking at the DirectX forums and the same guys who make DXR are also on the Xbox team. DXR is constantly being updated, and the drivers for supporting DXR are also being updated. 2 years is a lot of time for things to change. If you recall, DX12 did not ship with Shader Model 6 and it only was released with in the last year (as experimental), driver support for full release (I think June of this year) is still shaky from what I understand. I'm expecting to see more changes with DXR in that respect, I've yet to see a game require SM6.0 for baseline support when I think about it.

    On top of profiling like they did with X1X. I can see support for RT, not at insane levels, but enough for it to become a baseline console feature.
     
    #380 iroboto, Oct 17, 2018
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2018
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