Actually, they do. MS isn't (by far) the only 'essential' patent holder in the VC-1 patent-pool. However, depending on the resdistribution agreement between the patent holders (which we're unlikely to know to the full extent), I expect that MS is getting a reasonable (significant?) portion of the fees payable to MPEG LA in return.
IF: Blu Ray wins format war THEN: Sony laughs all the way to the bank?
- Thread starter Crayon
- Start date
Exactly.
Well, Sony manages to sell plenty of Sony Vaio's while paying MS for the OS on them.
Plus ms has the VC-1 codec, which again could result in Sony paying them on Blu-Ray.
I dont think ms cares all that much. They've said they'd do a blu-ray add on for 360 if necessary I think. For a long while they were format neutral between BluRay-HDDVD anyway.
So as a practical matter, unless HDDVD catches on enough to make the drives fairly cheap by Xbox720, it will be a blu-ray drive I'd guess.
Although why couldn't they do proprietary formats like Nintendo? Does Nintendo pay for DVD in Wii? It's also proprietary I think, but maybe sort of based on DVD? How does that work? What about the proprietary mini-disc in GC? How did that work royalties wise? Was It based on a DVD laser or something, and how does that work?
There's no way they stick with DVD-9 for NEXT gen though. Developers are already complaining about DVD. It may not be that big an issue for this gen, but next gen will definitly require next gen storage.
Digital distribution is a non-starter too I think. There's always that some 10-30% of people that wont have broadband (plenty of people even today chose not to have cable TV, for example). And these games are getting bigger, try pushing 30-50GB games down the pipe. At that point simple download time becomes a large factor. When you download a HD movie on Xbox Live right now, which may be around 7GB, you are usually looking at an overnight or 4-6 hour proposition. That's no fun.
I cant imagine a server getting hammered for Halo 5...
Plus ms has the VC-1 codec, which again could result in Sony paying them on Blu-Ray.
I dont think ms cares all that much. They've said they'd do a blu-ray add on for 360 if necessary I think. For a long while they were format neutral between BluRay-HDDVD anyway.
So as a practical matter, unless HDDVD catches on enough to make the drives fairly cheap by Xbox720, it will be a blu-ray drive I'd guess.
Although why couldn't they do proprietary formats like Nintendo? Does Nintendo pay for DVD in Wii? It's also proprietary I think, but maybe sort of based on DVD? How does that work? What about the proprietary mini-disc in GC? How did that work royalties wise? Was It based on a DVD laser or something, and how does that work?
There's no way they stick with DVD-9 for NEXT gen though. Developers are already complaining about DVD. It may not be that big an issue for this gen, but next gen will definitly require next gen storage.
Digital distribution is a non-starter too I think. There's always that some 10-30% of people that wont have broadband (plenty of people even today chose not to have cable TV, for example). And these games are getting bigger, try pushing 30-50GB games down the pipe. At that point simple download time becomes a large factor. When you download a HD movie on Xbox Live right now, which may be around 7GB, you are usually looking at an overnight or 4-6 hour proposition. That's no fun.
I cant imagine a server getting hammered for Halo 5...
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You'd be surpised how many Blu Ray transfers are encoded in VC-1.
a) Use HD-DVD or a proprietary format.
Hmm, I had missed this option. Unlike digital distribution I think that one is plausible.
The reason being I think the importance of movie-playing in a console tends to decline over time. Look at the PS2 right now and ask how many people care it plays DVD's. DVD players are 29.99 and good ones $50. In five years Blu-Ray/HDDVD will be cheap, and many homes will already have one.
I think digital distribution is possible to an extent also, but I think it will have to be a choice with retail still an option. And unless you're going to let people burn their own discs (a somewhat unaesthetic option anyway), there's also all kinds of storage issues.
Hmm, I had missed this option. Unlike digital distribution I think that one is plausible.
The reason being I think the importance of movie-playing in a console tends to decline over time. Look at the PS2 right now and ask how many people care it plays DVD's. DVD players are 29.99 and good ones $50. In five years Blu-Ray/HDDVD will be cheap, and many homes will already have one.
I think digital distribution is possible to an extent also, but I think it will have to be a choice with retail still an option. And unless you're going to let people burn their own discs (a somewhat unaesthetic option anyway), there's also all kinds of storage issues.
If BDR wins out I don't see why MS couldn't use a cheap BDR in 2011. If Sony wins, they win.
The problem with digital distribution is not only bandwidth and market penetration but also storage. Lets assume that the beginning of the Xbox 3 generation games are looking at 20GB-30GB of space to start off with. You need a storage device for such. HDD? Space is becoming accessible through new technologies, but the "bottom" rung cost doesn't move much. Solid state technologies are coming to market, e.g. SanDisk's 32GB SDD. The cost is outrageous though, and even assuming a huge markup (even 100%) on the $600 price, just looking at the 40% average annual reduction in the flash market and it is hard to see how such a device will be affordable in 2011. Maybe it will be, be the next gen consoles are going to need well in excess of 500GB if they plan to do digital distribution.
I think they WILL try digital distribution, one reason being that Optical media in 2011 will be sooooo slow compared to the ~ 4GB of system memory the platforms will have, hence a faster storage medium will be necessary. So a SDD or HDD will kill 2 birds with one stone. That said I don't think optical drives will dissappear and expect both Sony and MS to have one. It just may not be the focus.
Well right; I didn't say anything different did I?
It's an interesting space to watch. Sony themselves has R&D in the holographic space that is supposed to leverage the present blue laser paradigm if/when it comes online. Whether or not five/six years out from now we're ready for HVD or not is it's own question. The second question is whether there is a hashed out industry consensus ahead of time, or whether we go through a format war redux.
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20061018/122391/
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Well right; I didn't say anything different did I?
It's an interesting space to watch. Sony themselves has R&D in the holographic space that is supposed to leverage the present blue laser paradigm if/when it comes online. Whether or not five/six years out from now we're ready for HVD or not is it's own question. The second question is whether there is a hashed out industry consensus ahead of time, or whether we go through a format war redux.
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20061018/122391/
Heh, funny the guy behind HVD was a Sony employee
DeathKnight
Regular
Yep, very few (pretty much only from Warner who uses identical VC-1 encodes for both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray). All the other studios supporting Blu-Ray have had the vast majority of their releases as MPEG2. Even though the format supports VC-1, it seems Sony doesn't want much to do with it. At least it gives them a partial excuse for the higher capacity media.
I wouldn't say very few. Of a list of 107 titles, about 25% are VC-1 with only 4 being H.264/AVC (thats what I'd call very few!).
Who's to say one couldn't take their detachable harddrive on their Xbox 720 or PS4 and download the game from the store? Probably a $10 premium to do this but still it's possible for those without internet connect to get the games I guess...
They'll do digital distribution then!
That's one of the reasons MS is trying to keep HD-DVD alive at all costs and prolong the war as long as possible.
They don't want to be faced with that scenario, Blu-Ray or DVD9 or nothing.
How much of a chance is there really for this to take off? 25-50 GB pr movie, downloaded to a harddrive, lets say a 200GB drive, that is around 6 movies, snowball in hell in my world
And then there is the problem with not having the physical media, for example iTunes, you download the files and if you lose them they are gone, no CD to take out and recompress them from no chance to download them again. At least valve got that part right with steam.
How much of a chance is there really for this to take off? 25-50 GB pr movie, downloaded to a harddrive, lets say a 200GB drive, that is around 6 movies, snowball in hell in my world
And then there is the problem with not having the physical media, for example iTunes, you download the files and if you lose them they are gone, no CD to take out and recompress them from no chance to download them again. At least valve got that part right with steam.
HD movies are only 4 to 7 GBs on XBL Marketplace and the ones I've rented looked very very good.
Digital distribution to take off and beat HD optical needs sweeping changes. First, you need much much larger hard disks. Second, you need competitive bitrates. Third, you need to match the features: sound tracks, subtitles, extras. Fourth, you need to to operate within the household bandwidth that most consumers outside of Korea and Japan have. Fifth, you have to convince the studios to get onboard.
Most industry analysts think true HD digital distribution is atleast 10 years old. Those people trying to sell it of course will overhype that its just around the corner, but of course, HDTV was just around the corner 10 years ago and it took ten years and it's still not mainstream yet.
Simply downloading a VC-1 encoded file does not give parity with optical disk. Optical disks are more than just the video/audio coded streams.
Do I detect that Dave approves of disingenous corporate behavior on the part of Microsoft, in trying to throw a cog into industry resolution on next-gen optical formats, just because it wants to be the gatekeeper of digital online distribution. The prolonging of the format war is bad for consumers, since whatever you think of digital distribution, optical distribution will still be an incredibly useful technology, and even desired, by many consumers, before the so-called digital distribution future nirvana.
It seems like people now freely admit that's whats happening, as well as bald faced lying by MS's media people like Amir, as to their true intentions.
Most industry analysts think true HD digital distribution is atleast 10 years old. Those people trying to sell it of course will overhype that its just around the corner, but of course, HDTV was just around the corner 10 years ago and it took ten years and it's still not mainstream yet.
Simply downloading a VC-1 encoded file does not give parity with optical disk. Optical disks are more than just the video/audio coded streams.
Do I detect that Dave approves of disingenous corporate behavior on the part of Microsoft, in trying to throw a cog into industry resolution on next-gen optical formats, just because it wants to be the gatekeeper of digital online distribution. The prolonging of the format war is bad for consumers, since whatever you think of digital distribution, optical distribution will still be an incredibly useful technology, and even desired, by many consumers, before the so-called digital distribution future nirvana.
It seems like people now freely admit that's whats happening, as well as bald faced lying by MS's media people like Amir, as to their true intentions.
4GB VC-1 is going to be DVD quality. You're talking 4Mbit/s, so 1/2 the rate of top DVDs, but double the resolution. Also, soundtrack quality will be worse than next-gen. Plus, no multiple audio tracks, in many cases few or no subtitles, no bonus content/commentary.
Plus, how do you take the movie to the living room of another friend to watch it? Does MS allow you to burn VC-1 discs and play them back elsewhere, or downgrade an VC-1 to DVD and watch it elsewhere?
