If 2nd gen Dpad = Fighters & 2nd gen twin analog = FPS ,what will 2nd gen 6DoF = ?

[onQ]

When you think of the best use of the Dpad right now you think Fighting games. But it wasn't until the second generation of standard dpad controllers when Fighting games became popular on consoles & became a successful genre. Same thing happened with First Person Shooters & Twin Analog Thumb Sticks, the 1st generation of consoles with twin analog stick controls as standard only seen a few successful FPS but the 2nd generation was all about FPS.

If history repeats itself the orientation sensor in the Wii U pad & DualShock 4 should be finding it's niche some time in this generation. The question is what genre will take advantage of the sensors?

My guess is Rail Shooters or Flight games because you never know when a Street Fighter II or Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare is going to show up & change the course of a generation.

What genre do you think will find success this generation?

 

[Grall]

Motion sensors are too laggy and imprecise to offer good input for action games. There's no tactile feedback or resistance, so at least I tend to overshoot when turning etc. Even a simple game like say, Flower, was a pain to steer in using motion input.

I wouldn't expect a huge boom of motion input games in a new gen of consoles; motion sensors are already on their third incarnation in sensors (simple accelerometers first in sixaxis and wiimote, then coupled with gyros in DS3 and motionplus wiimote; now DS4 and whatever MS calls their xbone pad), and we're not seeing even a twitch in interest levels for motion input.

 

[onQ]

Motion sensors are too laggy and imprecise to offer good input for action games. There's no tactile feedback or resistance, so at least I tend to overshoot when turning etc. Even a simple game like say, Flower, was a pain to steer in using motion input.

I wouldn't expect a huge boom of motion input games in a new gen of consoles; motion sensors are already on their third incarnation in sensors (simple accelerometers first in sixaxis and wiimote, then coupled with gyros in DS3 and motionplus wiimote; now DS4 and whatever MS calls their xbone pad), and we're not seeing even a twitch in interest levels for motion input.

It wasn't until year 2 and 3 when Fighting games became big on SNES / Genesis & FPS didn't really take off on PlayStation until PlayStation 3 even though they added dual analog sticks to the PlayStation controller in 1997. PS2 had TimeSplitters , Black , HL2 , Killzone & so on but FPS wasn't big on PlayStation & even though Halo was successful on Xbox it was only 2 games that had that success but when Xbox 360 & PS3 came FPS became big on consoles. You can't say nothing will come because Flower didn't play as smooth as you wanted it to on the PS3.

 

[Sonic]

The problem is you are assuming these things will somehow revolutionize a genre's gameplay and propel those types of games as the new cash cow on consoles. Fighting games didn't necessarily become popular on consoles due to the improvements in d-pad, but more likely because Genesis and SNES were capable of decent arcade conversions and Street Fighter 2 being massively popular at a time when arcades were still popular. Ports of SF2 to consoles is likely what caused the massive explosion in the popularity of fighting games.

 

[onQ]

The problem is you are assuming these things will somehow revolutionize a genre's gameplay and propel those types of games as the new cash cow on consoles. Fighting games didn't necessarily become popular on consoles due to the improvements in d-pad, but more likely because Genesis and SNES were capable of decent arcade conversions and Street Fighter 2 being massively popular at a time when arcades were still popular. Ports of SF2 to consoles is likely what caused the massive explosion in the popularity of fighting games.

You never know what type of games will spark and become the next big thing , who would have thought that Guitar/Rockband or dancing games would have became as big as they did at one point in gaming? Who would have thought that some game about mining would end up one of the best selling games of all time over the last few years?

Being the 2nd generation means that the they have had a lot of time to improve the technology learning from the mistakes of the 1st generation & having better APIs & middle-ware for the devs to use. So all they have to worry about is making the game & not worry about the controls being bad because of hardware limitations.

About a year or so ago there was fools going outside throwing their phones in the air as high as they can just because a dev decided to use the sensors to make a silly app.The point is you never know what people will enjoy.

 

[Grall]

Look, you can believe whatever you want of course (and I can tell you're latching on to this idea bigtime), it's a free country , but FPSes not being very big on PS1 generation and then exploding in popularity (not so much on PS2, as rather 360/PS3 gen) has NOTHING to do with wether 3D motion control will catch on on PS4/bone generation or the one after.

These are two totally different, unrelated things. One's a video game genre, the other is a physical, tangible object, and interactions related to said object. You can't draw parallels between one being not common and then becoming common much later, and then say the same thing will happen here, because frankly it's not possible. Why would it be? It literally makes no sense making this deduction. You might just as well say that because shooters were not common and then became common, it means bellbottom pants and afros are definitely gonna come back in style again in the coming decade.

This thread = big wut!

 

[onQ]

Look, you can believe whatever you want of course (and I can tell you're latching on to this idea bigtime), it's a free country , but FPSes not being very big on PS1 generation and then exploding in popularity (not so much on PS2, as rather 360/PS3 gen) has NOTHING to do with wether 3D motion control will catch on on PS4/bone generation or the one after.

These are two totally different, unrelated things. One's a video game genre, the other is a physical, tangible object, and interactions related to said object. You can't draw parallels between one being not common and then becoming common much later, and then say the same thing will happen here, because frankly it's not possible. Why would it be? It literally makes no sense making this deduction. You might just as well say that because shooters were not common and then became common, it means bellbottom pants and afros are definitely gonna come back in style again in the coming decade.

This thread = big wut!

Just like the Dpad & Analog stick eventually made Fighting games & First Person Shooters enjoyable to play on consoles, orientation sensors could do the same for a genre of games that's not big on consoles right now, just like fighters & FPS wasn't big on consoles at one point.

The question was "what genre do you think will find success this generation?"

 

[dobwal]

The analog stick showed up in the 70s and made a resurgence due to 3D games not first person shooters.

Nintendo designed the dpad for Donkey Kong hand held game back in the early 80s and migrated it to the NES.

 

[onQ]

The analog stick showed up in the 70s and made a resurgence due to 3D games not first person shooters.

Nintendo designed the dpad for Donkey Kong hand held game back in the early 80s and migrated it to the NES.

Yes & sensors was also in controllers years before the sixaxis & wiimote but I was talking about the second generation of the control inputs being standard on a console.

 

[Sigfried1977]

You can download the demo of Blue Estate on the PS4 if you wanna try a rail shooter with motion controlled aiming. Hint: it's an awful way to control the game.

 

[Arwin]

Just like the Dpad & Analog stick eventually made Fighting games & First Person Shooters enjoyable to play on consoles, orientation sensors could do the same for a genre of games that's not big on consoles right now, just like fighters & FPS wasn't big on consoles at one point.

The question was "what genre do you think will find success this generation?"

I think the current DS4 is perfect for space sims and all sorts of other flying style games. It's just a matter of hoping that someone will actually dare to make a game like that for PS4 that actually makes use of it.

You can download the demo of Blue Estate on the PS4 if you wanna try a rail shooter with motion controlled aiming. Hint: it's an awful way to control the game.

I actually disagree. However hokey and low-budget the game feels, it actually controls fine with the DS4 to me. It uses nothing but the gyro though, which is a shame - gameplay could have improved significantly by using the camera as well.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

I think the current DS4 is perfect for space sims and all sorts of other flying style games. It's just a matter of hoping that someone will actually dare to make a game like that for PS4 that actually makes use of it.

Given the apparently lacking interest in movement controls for Warhawk and Lair, I expect devs to be pretty prejudiced against the idea. Warhawk controlled beautiful with motion but I guess stats showed it wasn't at all popular which is why it was dropped from Starhawk. And if it's not popular, why make the effort to add motion controls to flight in a new game?

One of the limitations with motion controls for flight is no haptic feedback when you hit your limits. On a thumbstick, you know you're at full turn when you hit the casing, but with movement controls, I've seen plenty of people move the controller to 90+ degrees to try and get faster turning even when the limit is reached at like 30 degrees of tilt. I think people on average are only really comfortable with motion controls when it's 1:1.

 

[Sigfried1977]

I actually disagree. However hokey and low-budget the game feels, it actually controls fine with the DS4 to me. It uses nothing but the gyro though, which is a shame - gameplay could have improved significantly by using the camera as well.

Really? I had to recenter the aiming reticule pretty much every 5 seconds (tops) when I played it.

 

[onQ]

I think the current DS4 is perfect for space sims and all sorts of other flying style games. It's just a matter of hoping that someone will actually dare to make a game like that for PS4 that actually makes use of it.

I'm thinking the same thing. 6DoF & space rail shooters should be good. A Rez remake would be nice.

Given the apparently lacking interest in movement controls for Warhawk and Lair, I expect devs to be pretty prejudiced against the idea. Warhawk controlled beautiful with motion but I guess stats showed it wasn't at all popular which is why it was dropped from Starhawk. And if it's not popular, why make the effort to add motion controls to flight in a new game?

One of the limitations with motion controls for flight is no haptic feedback when you hit your limits. On a thumbstick, you know you're at full turn when you hit the casing, but with movement controls, I've seen plenty of people move the controller to 90+ degrees to try and get faster turning even when the limit is reached at like 30 degrees of tilt. I think people on average are only really comfortable with motion controls when it's 1:1.

This is the reason I speak of the the second generation, because the controls & tools have advanced & the failures from the last generation most likely let them know what needed to be improved. Not only has the sensors improved but also the processor in the controller & the console hardware. So more can be done with the data that's coming from the sensors.



My nieces used to love the diner games like Diner Dash & so on I'm not sure if they still play them but I know they used to love these games & I'm pretty sure lots of other people like them too. So I'm thinking that someone could crank the sensitivity up and use the DS4 or Wii U pad to measure the vibrations as someone try to keep the controller steady while skating around a diner passing out trays of food & cleaning off tables & so on. The dev should actually make the game hard like Flappy Birds so people would have to keep trying to get the highest score. If you don't get what I'm talking about just think of Paperboy but instead of a bike & newspapers it's a waiter on skates & you have to pass out the trays as you stake pass the tables by actually moving the controller to the side that the table is on and placing the tray on the table without dropping them too late or early & you have to hold it steady not wasting the drinks.

Seems silly but because of the improved sensors you can make a game like that skill based.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

This is the reason I speak of the the second generation, because the controls & tools have advanced & the failures from the last generation most likely let them know what needed to be improved. Not only has the sensors improved but also the processor in the controller & the console hardware. So more can be done with the data that's coming from the sensors.

Lair's fault was that the control was indirect, and you were basically issuing commands to a dragon rather than moving the dragon. Warhawk had no motion control faults - it was perfect. People just didn't like it. I doubt people are going to start liking it now just because sensitivity is improved from faultless to imperceptibly-even-more-faultless.

My nieces used to love the diner games like Diner Dash & so on I'm not sure if they still play them but I know they used to love these games & I'm pretty sure lots of other people like them too. So I'm thinking that someone could crank the sensitivity up and use the DS4 or Wii U pad to measure the vibrations as someone try to keep the controller steady while skating around a diner passing out trays of food & cleaning off tables & so on. The dev should actually make the game hard like Flappy Birds so people would have to keep trying to get the highest score. If you don't get what I'm talking about just think of Paperboy but instead of a bike & newspapers it's a waiter on skates & you have to pass out the trays as you stake pass the tables by actually moving the controller to the side that the table is on and placing the tray on the table without dropping them too late or early & you have to hold it steady not wasting the drinks.

That's doable, but sounds more like a mobile game that can be financed by adverts. Besides, it's nothing like the scope of your opening examples. D-pad resulted in the Fighting genre you say. Twin sticks caused the transition to mainstream FPSes. And super gyro control is going to lead a new era of...tray balancing simulators?

 

[onQ]

Lair's fault was that the control was indirect, and you were basically issuing commands to a dragon rather than moving the dragon. Warhawk had no motion control faults - it was perfect. People just didn't like it. I doubt people are going to start liking it now just because sensitivity is improved from faultless to imperceptibly-even-more-faultless.

That's doable, but sounds more like a mobile game that can be financed by adverts. Besides, it's nothing like the scope of your opening examples. D-pad resulted in the Fighting genre you say. Twin sticks caused the transition to mainstream FPSes. And super gyro control is going to lead a new era of...tray balancing simulators?

Not tray balancing simulator lol. The example was to make a case for higher sensitivity sensors. If the controller sensors is good enough you can make simply games skill based. Look at Flappy Birds , Surgeon Simulator , Ridiculous Fishing , Temple Run , Subway Surfer & so on they take simple gameplay & make it skilled based & people love it. Devs can take that same concept & make console games.

Someone could make the next Jet Set Radio & use advance gesture recognition so you would actually have to follow the lines almost perfectly to spay paint the walls.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

What you're describing is a range of games though. Your comparisons are two massive genres defined by the new control schemes. Sure, devs can make motion controlled games. That's been discussed before. I thought in this thread you were looking for a particular genre that'll take to motion games. If the DS4 pointer is as good as some say, it might benefit RTSes, but I don't think people have the patience for them any more. Perhaps most scarily, if the PS4's pointer works that well we might just see mobile ports with the pointer acting as a finger...

 

[onQ]

What you're describing is a range of games though. Your comparisons are two massive genres defined by the new control schemes. Sure, devs can make motion controlled games. That's been discussed before. I thought in this thread you were looking for a particular genre that'll take to motion games. If the DS4 pointer is as good as some say, it might benefit RTSes, but I don't think people have the patience for them any more. Perhaps most scarily, if the PS4's pointer works that well we might just see mobile ports with the pointer acting as a finger...

You questioned if devs would want to make games using motion controls because of the lack of interest in the games that used them last generation & I was just pointing out that with more advance sensors different types of games can be made that take advantage of the better sensors.

RTS is one but they would probably have to make them more console friendly to get the new generation into them. Something like the tank demo they showed when the PlayStation Move was 1st revealed or a Army Men RTS.

Games like Tumble & Echochrome 2 could be made to work around the limitations of the DS4/Wii U pad. Being that the sensors are a standard part of the PlayStation 4 controller the user base is already up to or above the user base of the PlayStation Move & it's only going to grow so it will be less of a risk to make these games. You never know what type of games might click with people. But when it does I'm sure other games in that genre will follow.

 

[Nesh]

One of the problems I find with orientation sensors is the fact that your hands cant be 100% stable. So a game like a flight seem needs to have some dead zones in place so that an accidental tiny tilt/motion does not register as an input. By doing that on the other hand the sense of sharp response is eliminated which is one of the great things that we appreciate with d-pads and dual stick
.
It worked kind of nice with some first person shooters on the PS3 but at the same time it required the player to be more alert with the controller's position. Some games worked great some others didnt because the developer didnt oprimize very well the motion inputs.

But I must say there is a rail shooter on the PS4 which I forgot the name off which plays tremendously well with the DS4's motion controls. The thing is though these arent the kind of games that can become very very popular. They limit freedom.

 

[mrcorbo]

I think the current DS4 is perfect for space sims and all sorts of other flying style games.

Perfect for these genres, to me, is defined by a flightstick. Compared to that, I think the next best control method would be best described as adequate.

One of the limitations with motion controls for flight is no haptic feedback when you hit your limits. On a thumbstick, you know you're at full turn when you hit the casing, but with movement controls, I've seen plenty of people move the controller to 90+ degrees to try and get faster turning even when the limit is reached at like 30 degrees of tilt. I think people on average are only really comfortable with motion controls when it's 1:1.

That's a big issue with all forms of motion controls.

One of the problems I find with orientation sensors is the fact that your hands cant be 100% stable. So a game like a flight seem needs to have some dead zones in place so that an accidental tiny tilt/motion does not register as an input. By doing that on the other hand the sense of sharp response is eliminated which is one of the great things that we appreciate with d-pads and dual stick.

And this is another one.

I'd also add that the lack of resistance to movement is a key problem with motion controls. It takes a bit of effort to move a stick (thumb or joy), turn a wheel or push a button. The complete lack of this resistance feedback is one of the things that makes even the most precise motion controls seem imprecise.