IBM to offer Open Source for some Cell software tools

[dcforest]

Just in case you didn't see it, A nice EE Times article:

http://www.eetimes.com/news/latest/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=163106213

 

[Npl]

Cell operates in a range from 0.9 to 1.3 volts, Kahle of IBM said, but the developer trio hopes to keep it at the low end of that range to get power consumption down to something that can be cooled with a fan. Kahle would not disclose performance or power consumption figures.

Somehow Im now quite a bit scared

 

[Geeforcer]

Wow, so they are shooting for temperature at which chip can actually operate for an extended amount of time without a refrigerator attached to it? Those people at Sony sure set ambitious goals for themselves. Let me guess, they also think that getting current draw in line with what a household socket can output would be nice too.

 

[Tacitblue]

Reminds me of the engineering in joke about the specific heat rejection of CPU cores approaching that of nuclear reactors. Be funny to walk around in a silver coated bunny suit akin to airport firemen.

 

[passby]

I may be out-of-date. But the voltage range is about the same as that for a top-end PPC970 core, and lower than a top-end P4?

 

[pegisys]

yeah but it's going to be 8 or 9 cores in each chip

 

[Carl B]

yeah but it's going to be 8 or 9 cores in each chip

True, but at least for the SPE's, the majority of die area is relatively cool local memory, so the heat signature/density shouldn't be that bad, especially considering the memory should act as buffer between 'hot spots.'

 

[passby]

My implication here, which is the impression I get from the article, is that 1 CELL chip = 1 PPE + 8 SPEs <= 1.3V...

which ~= 1 PPC970 core
which < 1 highest-end P4 core

Very impressive actually.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Are we forgetting the meat of the article ? IBM will expose publically all details of CELL' ISA: PPE and SPE's included.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Surely home-brew on PS3 is looking more and more likely then? The Cell server demo'd runs Linux. The APIs are open source. This means Linux on PS3 and OpenOffice plus other opensource products will be appearing. And Linux can run of Flash mem without HD too, right?

Though I guessing people won't be able ot write software that runs ona vanilla PS3. eg. Developed on PS3 on Linux kit, copied to MemStick, put in a standard PS3 and run. It's only the Cell details we've got.

Maybe it's not a cert after all. Bah!

 

[Evil_Cloud]

HDD + Linux + Homebrewn + different disc and cartridge mediums = Emulation?

Imagine emulating Dreamcast through PS3.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Imagine emulating XBox!

 

[Carl B]

What is the extent of the open-sourcing here - are there contigencies in place for non-competes? I have this vision of Microsoft checking out the Cell architecture, investing in some R&D of their own, and coming at Sony in the next-next gen, Cell derivative vs Cell derivative. I'm just wondering whether there would be any safeguards in place to prevent such a nightmare scenario for Sony, if only from the standpoint of them having footed the R&D for a competitors CPU (which honestly already seems to be the case to a certain extent in the tri-core).

Whether they would choose Cell so much isn't really the focus here so much as is it even feasible.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Open sourced API's isn't divulging hardware approaches, and those are safeguarded by patents anyway. It's not like IBM are open sourcing the Cell architecture!

 

[Carl B]

Open sourced API's isn't divulging hardware approaches, and those are safeguarded by patents anyway. It's not like IBM are open sourcing the Cell architecture!

Well, but IBM is agreeing to custom build tweeked Cell chips to spec within this context. So really that's where my 'fear' lies.

From the article, the quote of note:

The IBM Corp. fellow who led the design team said his company currently has no plans to make Cell-based chips for its own systems or for the merchant market. Instead, IBM has set up a team in its engineering services division to help others custom-design versions of Cell that could be made in IBM's fabs.

 

[a688]

What is the extent of the open-sourcing here - are there contigencies in place for non-competes? I have this vision of Microsoft checking out the Cell architecture, investing in some R&D of their own, and coming at Sony in the next-next gen, Cell derivative vs Cell derivative. I'm just wondering whether there would be any safeguards in place to prevent such a nightmare scenario for Sony, if only from the standpoint of them having footed the R&D for a competitors CPU (which honestly already seems to be the case to a certain extent in the tri-core).

Whether they would choose Cell so much isn't really the focus here so much as is it even feasible.

Sony paid IBM's for work on cell. IBM is allowed to use any of their own IP in in other processors it designs for other customers. Sony didn't help fund MS's tri-core any more than any of IBM's previous customers did. Obviously MS will look at cell's archecture, just as Sony will look at MS's tri-core cpu.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

The IBM Corp. fellow who led the design team said his company currently has no plans to make Cell-based chips for its own systems or for the merchant market. Instead, IBM has set up a team in its engineering services division to help others custom-design versions of Cell that could be made in IBM's fabs.

I guess it depends on what agreements Sony had in place then. It suggests anyone can approach IBM for a customized Cell for their own mobile phones/PDAs/TVs/Workstations/consoles. I'd guess that Sony weren't stupid enough not to have some sort of clause regards distribution to competing products for its console.

 

[Carl B]

Sony paid IBM's for work on cell. IBM is allowed to use any of their own IP in in other processors it designs for other customers. Sony didn't help fund MS's tri-core any more than any of IBM's previous customers did. Obviously MS will look at cell's archecture, just as Sony will look at MS's tri-core cpu.

I don't agree with your assesment, but it comes down to the difference of a 'letter of the law' vs 'spirit of the law' interpretation. The entire structure of the 360's cores seems to be fairly derived from the PPE in Cell - a core that in and of itself comprised what must have been at least a decent amount of the Cell's R&D expenditure; and since Sony paid the majority of R&D costs, my logic thus follows...

 

[Carl B]

I guess it depends on what agreements Sony had in place then. It suggests anyone can approach IBM for a customized Cell for their own mobile phones/PDAs/TVs/Workstations/consoles. I'd guess that Sony weren't stupid enough not to have some sort of clause regards distribution to competing products for its console.

I hope so, that's for sure! If only from the standpoint of rational vs irrational business moves.

 

[speng]

http://news.ft.com/cms/s/831f8532-d7bb-11d9-9f43-00000e2511c8.html

IBM to disclose CELL technology today.

Speng.