BenSkywalker
Regular
Shooting is, hands down. I'd say roughly 3% of the rooms in MP don't have things you have to shoot.
Hype and review scores.
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Shooting is, hands down. I'd say roughly 3% of the rooms in MP don't have things you have to shoot.
Metroid Prime is an Adventure game in a FP perspective, it is based more on exploring and platforming then it is shooting.
And the worst thing about Halos controls were having to use the Analog Stick buttons to Zoom and crouch it was horrible and impossible to move while crouched at the same time.
And the worst thing about Halos controls were having to use the Analog Stick buttons to Zoom and crouch it was horrible and impossible to move while crouched at the same time.
CaptainHowdy
Regular
BenSkywalker said:
I have not had a single instance where either shooting or jumping has been a problem, I always hit what I want, because I treat it like Metroid, not like Halo, if something is above me, like in the old games, I jump(jumping is a major role, with jumping you CAN aim while moving, in air you have plenty of time to hold the R button and aim for your target).
I finally beat it for the second time last night and got my 100%.. there was not a second that I wished the controls were different, it took a grand total of 15 minutes before I had completely mastered that part of the game.
Ozy: It's not a straight FPS. This is no Serious Sam. I'll agree that the controls aren't perfect (IMO, they nearly are.. and few games have more polished controls anyway) and I'll even agree that it's part of the FPS genre.
I just can't agree that it's part of the same FPS sub-genre that Doom, Quake, and Unreal are in. Wouldn't you agree?
I mean, c'mon.. show me another FPS like Metroid Prime. There is none. It's in its own sub-genre, honestly! Yes, System Shock and Half-Life among others come close in some regards.. but my argument holds up. This is not a PC FPS, just as Miyamoto stated in that clumsy EGM interview of his. He didn't know what he was saying, but the man was correct. It's too different to be a straight FPS, and 95% of professional game reviewers would agree with me.
Your lack of love with the gameplay is your problem, not the game's. I had just played through Super Metroid to get "primed" for MP.. and MP reminded me heavily of the 1994 classic gameplay-wise. If you didn't enjoy SM, then I'm not surprised that you have qualms with MP because they're rather similar. All Metroid games are like this. BTW, how is MP your GOTY when you're criticizing the game and its gameplay so much? I thought you were a big JSRF fan, that game came out this year and you never seem to complain about that one..
Teasy:
No matter how good something is, there's always going to be somebody who dislikes it. That's the way of the world.
Ben:
Which would require an overhaul of the game's controls. Which button could do it? They're all used up. Maybe Z? Move the map to the Start screen? That would be annoying. With that scheme set, you'd probably complain about having to switch between modes because you can't change visors/beams without the C-Stick. It would be cumbersome, right?
Okay, and what is "shoot"? The A button? I'm guessing that you meant to say that R = shoot and A = beam select, because you wouldn't be able to aim the C-Stick and shoot using A at the same time. Besides that, R is a digital-click trigger.. it might be a little bit more annoying to shoot beams using it than it would be on, say, the Xbox controller.
All in all, yes.. you could work around your proposed (virtually non-existant) "faults" in the Metroid Prime control scheme, but only a handful of people would use the 2nd control scheme. Like Teasy said, you guys are in the minority.. and it sux0rs that you have to suffer on one of the best games in years while others (like myself) consider the controls a cakewalk.
I just can't agree that it's part of the same FPS sub-genre that Doom, Quake, and Unreal are in. Wouldn't you agree?
I mean, c'mon.. show me another FPS like Metroid Prime. There is none. It's in its own sub-genre, honestly! Yes, System Shock and Half-Life among others come close in some regards.. but my argument holds up. This is not a PC FPS, just as Miyamoto stated in that clumsy EGM interview of his. He didn't know what he was saying, but the man was correct. It's too different to be a straight FPS, and 95% of professional game reviewers would agree with me.
Your lack of love with the gameplay is your problem, not the game's. I had just played through Super Metroid to get "primed" for MP.. and MP reminded me heavily of the 1994 classic gameplay-wise. If you didn't enjoy SM, then I'm not surprised that you have qualms with MP because they're rather similar. All Metroid games are like this. BTW, how is MP your GOTY when you're criticizing the game and its gameplay so much? I thought you were a big JSRF fan, that game came out this year and you never seem to complain about that one..
Teasy:
No matter how good something is, there's always going to be somebody who dislikes it. That's the way of the world.
Ben:
Which would require an overhaul of the game's controls. Which button could do it? They're all used up. Maybe Z? Move the map to the Start screen? That would be annoying. With that scheme set, you'd probably complain about having to switch between modes because you can't change visors/beams without the C-Stick. It would be cumbersome, right?
Okay, and what is "shoot"? The A button? I'm guessing that you meant to say that R = shoot and A = beam select, because you wouldn't be able to aim the C-Stick and shoot using A at the same time. Besides that, R is a digital-click trigger.. it might be a little bit more annoying to shoot beams using it than it would be on, say, the Xbox controller.
All in all, yes.. you could work around your proposed (virtually non-existant) "faults" in the Metroid Prime control scheme, but only a handful of people would use the 2nd control scheme. Like Teasy said, you guys are in the minority.. and it sux0rs that you have to suffer on one of the best games in years while others (like myself) consider the controls a cakewalk.
Yeah you have to shoot allot, but that doesn't make shooting the biggest part of the game. You have to shoot a door to open it, but that doesn't require pinpoint shooting nor make shooting the focus of the game. The emphasis in Metroid Prime is exploration.
Ozy
You say you think its rubbish when people call this game a FPA.. why?, explain you reasoning. You think that because just about every first person game before it was focused on shooting (FPS) that means every game in first person perspective has to be a FPS?
If a game is more about exploration/adventure then shooting (which MP certainly is) then of course it can be a FPA. The very control system your complaining about is obviously made to cater for exploration... don't you think that's a clue to the games focus? Do you really think they would have made the controls like that if they were making a FPS?
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
It's absolutely hysterical to hear Nintendo fans make excuses for the poor control scheme in Metroid Prime. The Halo scheme rules. Period. Ben's ideas are good too, but the point is that it's pretty sad if Ben can come up with a better system off the top of his head than Nintendo did after months of development.
My prediction is that this game will not affect future game development much at all. The same isn't true for Splinter Cell, which will undoubtly change the Stealth/Action genre forever, although I think Metroid is the better game of the two by a slight margin.
PS: It kind of reminds me of how they changed the excellent swimming controls in Mario64 to the horrible swimming controls in SMS, or how they decided to go Celda. Nintendo is losing their focus.
My prediction is that this game will not affect future game development much at all. The same isn't true for Splinter Cell, which will undoubtly change the Stealth/Action genre forever, although I think Metroid is the better game of the two by a slight margin.
PS: It kind of reminds me of how they changed the excellent swimming controls in Mario64 to the horrible swimming controls in SMS, or how they decided to go Celda. Nintendo is losing their focus.
CaptainHowdy
Regular
Johnny Awesome said:
whats funnier, is stupid cxxxs(who probally havent even played it) comparing it to Halo..
noone is making excuses, I dont have to excuse a control
scheme I am in love with.
if you had Halos controls scheme in Metroid, you would be dead in a pool of Molten Lava in seconds.
when Halo finds its way back to the top ten list(much less the number 2 game of all time) on Gamerankings..com talk to me.
marconelly!
Veteran
If you are thinking about the more realistic approach SC employs, constant usage of shadows and light meter - it's been around ever since the Thief games. MGS games never went that route simply because they opt for a much faster and more agressive gameplay, trading the realism for it.
BenSkywalker
Regular
Sure, swap A and R in my scenario. Have you ever used a GameCube or XBox controller as a curiosity btw?
The GC has an analog R button with a click, the XB has an analog R button without a click. Not exactly a startling difference between the two As far as disliking the controls-
"The excellent lock on tracking system and otherwise great button layout minimizes most problems but now and then a particularly stressful fight or steep platform path will make you wish Nintendo had implemented the dual stick setup, or at least included the option. to be fair, the scheme here does work better for simple jumping maneuvers, but a button to lock auto centering on and off would have given all the benefits, and much less of the finger fatugue, of constantly holding in the shoulder buttons"
EGM- Issue 162 Page 186- Review score 10/10/10(any typos are likely mine, I just copied it out of the magazine).
You know, coming from a group that really trashed the game
If they wanted me to play it like a third person game they should have made it third person in the first place.
It was a major pain on the default controller, not so bad on S(though it still was certainly lacking, at least it was tollerable). A bigger gripe from me was getting knocked out of zoom mode whenever you got hit. I'm not entirely sure how that relates to Metroid though......? Because Halo has some lousy control elements Metroid's become acceptable...? Doesn't work like that for me. I have every intention of purchasing Halo for the PC entirely due to superior control mechanics and no other reason. If I could pay another $10 for a version of Metroid with the control problems fixed I would($50 if they gave me a KB/Mouse combo
).Play through the game and get back to me on that one. I know you have played enough FPSs that you'll see what MP is about. Yes, there is exploration, not unlike a lot of other FPSs. It is a shooter, an extremely well done(except for the controls) shooter. With fixed controls I think it is hands down GOTY for any system. As it stands, I'm leaning towards Mafia at this point in time with ED and MP following up a bit behind.
Ben: The digital-click is what might make it tougher, that's the point. Analog is fine. BTW, I own both consoles. (no PS2)
What you want to do with the controls would require more buttons.
Your problem is with the controller, not so much the game I'd say. But whatever, I personally still find the controls nearly perfect for the game (after playing 28+ hours) so I'm never going to be able to agree with ya, Ben. No opinion is universal.
BTW, I own both consoles. (no PS2)What you want to do with the controls would require more buttons.
Your problem is with the controller, not so much the game I'd say. But whatever, I personally still find the controls nearly perfect for the game (after playing 28+ hours) so I'm never going to be able to agree with ya, Ben. No opinion is universal.
I wish someone would just come out and make a keyboard/mouse style controller for Consoles. I mean, yes Halo control scheme and yes Metroid control scheme, but why bother trying to make dual-joystick combos do something God never intended for them to do? Mouse/Keyboard is the supreme FPS controller and always will be.
They don't need to have a full sized keyboard, just something with buttons in the same relative position as WASD, shift, and spacebar. But the mouse is definitely a must.
Then again, if they make that, they'll probably charge $200 for it and it will only be usable for one mediocre game. Bah.
They don't need to have a full sized keyboard, just something with buttons in the same relative position as WASD, shift, and spacebar. But the mouse is definitely a must.
Then again, if they make that, they'll probably charge $200 for it and it will only be usable for one mediocre game. Bah.
CaptainHowdy
Regular
actually Ben, they did mean for you to play it like a third person game, just because you refuse to do so because of its perspective, doesnt mean its thier fault, its yours for not accepting what it is.
third person would have both Obstructed your view, which would make the adventure part not work, cant find what you cant see because Samus's big shoulder pads are in the way, and also its first to avoid bad camera problems that plague 3d adventure games, if you want to play Halo, play Halo, if your going to play Metroid, play Metroid, just because you cant get out of Halo mode while playing it, doesnt mean they messed it up, it just means you cant adapt to new game styles.
third person would have both Obstructed your view, which would make the adventure part not work, cant find what you cant see because Samus's big shoulder pads are in the way, and also its first to avoid bad camera problems that plague 3d adventure games, if you want to play Halo, play Halo, if your going to play Metroid, play Metroid, just because you cant get out of Halo mode while playing it, doesnt mean they messed it up, it just means you cant adapt to new game styles.
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
All I wanted was good controls. I got rubbish. Sorry guys, but my time with Metroid Prime (which I own) has convinced me that Nintendo screwed up the controls. Halo's controls were better for Halo AND sadly enough, better (though not ideal) for Metroid Prime. Inexcusable.
I bet if you somehow reconfigured the MP controls to make them like your choice of Halo controls..
You'd be having a good deal of trouble in the game. You don't know if Halo's control style would fit MP because
A. You've never played MP with the Halo control scheme.
B. You can't use Halo's controller with Metroid Prime.
C. Metroid Prime was designed around the strengths and weaknesses of the GCN controller, not the Xbox one.
Your argument is full of holes.
You'd be having a good deal of trouble in the game. You don't know if Halo's control style would fit MP because
A. You've never played MP with the Halo control scheme.
B. You can't use Halo's controller with Metroid Prime.
C. Metroid Prime was designed around the strengths and weaknesses of the GCN controller, not the Xbox one.
Your argument is full of holes.
CaptainHowdy
Regular
Johnny Awesome said:
Well, your opinion is the minority, and again with Halo, its not Halo,
no matter how much you want to argue, its not a FPS, its a platformer/adventure..being first person means nothing, it controls just
like any other platformer, except its pretty, has more action, and there are
no horrible camera angles, people want better camera control in platformers, and thats what metroid gave them , cant get better than complete control..
Blade:
Why isn't Jet Set Radio Future my GotY?
Because I simply like Metroid Prime more, that's why.
JSRF isn't a flawless game either. The camera is functional; it's good enough, but it makes the player really need to anticipate the level design to work around its few shortcomings.
For me, the flaws in MP, while significant, aren't enough to ruin the things that Retro implemented flawlessly. I'm also a sucker for extremely atmospheric, otherworldy games (my personal favourite game last gen was Panzer Dragoon Saga, and so far this gen it's still ICO) and Metroid has that down pat. Not to mention that I liked Super Metroid on SNES 8)
It doesn't matter what the focus is. Dual analog is better for exploration as well. When you have to stop every time you want to look around, that doesn't make for a very smooth-playing game.
I had my own idea about the controls.
Make the C stick for aiming, as you suggested.
But instead of putting beam select on "R", use the digital pad, and use "R" as a sort of modifier key, ala PSO. When you hold "R", it will change the function of the d-pad, from beam select->visor select. Hell, you could even let the player choose which one he wants defaulted.
Keep the lock-on, but make it optional. It comes in handy sometimes. It would be a lot stronger (IMO) if you could manipulate the stick at all times, and then the lock-on would be... gravy
Why isn't Jet Set Radio Future my GotY?
Because I simply like Metroid Prime more, that's why.
JSRF isn't a flawless game either. The camera is functional; it's good enough, but it makes the player really need to anticipate the level design to work around its few shortcomings.
For me, the flaws in MP, while significant, aren't enough to ruin the things that Retro implemented flawlessly. I'm also a sucker for extremely atmospheric, otherworldy games (my personal favourite game last gen was Panzer Dragoon Saga, and so far this gen it's still ICO) and Metroid has that down pat. Not to mention that I liked Super Metroid on SNES 8)
Teasy said:
It doesn't matter what the focus is. Dual analog is better for exploration as well. When you have to stop every time you want to look around, that doesn't make for a very smooth-playing game.
BenSkywalker said:
I had my own idea about the controls.
Make the C stick for aiming, as you suggested.
But instead of putting beam select on "R", use the digital pad, and use "R" as a sort of modifier key, ala PSO. When you hold "R", it will change the function of the d-pad, from beam select->visor select. Hell, you could even let the player choose which one he wants defaulted.
Keep the lock-on, but make it optional. It comes in handy sometimes. It would be a lot stronger (IMO) if you could manipulate the stick at all times, and then the lock-on would be... gravy
Johnny Awesome
Veteran
I'm not concerned with the majority opinion, but I know I'm right. After I complete the game I'll post an alternative control scheme that is CLEARLY better than what Nintendo cobbled together. You guys are just making excuses. FPA? LOL!
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