Hype and review scores.

[Tagrineth]

speaking of which, one guy said he loved MP, it was one of the best games he ever played, but knocked 20 points off its score because he said he did not like to read.

I'm sorry, what?

You don't even have to read anything much to get THROUGH the game... well except maybe getting all the Artefacts.

This goes in with all the "reviewers" who say 'oh thers to much scaning, u gota scan evrything' or something like that...

The controls are perfect for the game's style, period. The ONLY way I could see jumping be remotely decent with dual-analogue is if, say, the Z button was for jumping. But that'd just feel odd to me...

 

[BenSkywalker]

As far as games landing perfect scores, I think people put it along the lines of getting a perfect grade in school too frequently. Games are entertainment, not a test. If you see a movie land four out of four stars does anyone truly expect it to be absolutely perfect? A TV show? A book? I don't have a problem with several games this year that have landed perfect scores, although some of them I certainly don't agree with, I think some people are simply not realistic in their expectations of what a perfect score for a game constitutes.

For titles without too much hype that landed killer review scores, I didn't see all that much on Splinter Cell(at least, not nearly as much as most of the other titles we are discussing).

The controls are perfect for the game's style, period.

No, they definitely aren't. There are a few major problems with the controls in MP. First is the platforming. Particularly later in the game where there are numerous jumps that you have to take just right and at the right angle if you want to make. Without the ability to see the edge of the paltform you are on they should have avoided making jumps that were even close to easy to miss. In the Phazon Crater when you have to make the series of jumps while avoiding those particular enemies I don't know how many times I got knocked off because I couldn't spin around fast enough while dodging. This wasn't added difficulty in an enjoyable fashion, this was simply a pain in the ass. You don't take damage from falling(unless you fall into lava or Phazon prior to the proper armor upgrade), having so many platform elements in the game combined with the control scheme and viewpoint wasn't a good choice IMO.

The other end of the control issues is that 'locking on' is not seemless. The cloacked pirates as a general example, you can't lock on to them without wearing one of the proper visors, and for one of the mini bosses in the Phazon Mines you don't even posess the proper visor when you fight him. If you could always lock on to your enemy then the lack of dual analog wouldn't be such an issue, but you can't so it is. Ridley is another annoying fight due to this. When you are in melee combat and he charges you if he gets too close and your lock 'breaks off' you can only target his head, which you can't do without manually aiming to see his head. Problem is if he charges you and is close he is going to hit you with his claws and tail. You run away without locking on and he may charge you again while your back is turned. You end up having to drop in to a ball and roll away from him and extending the length of the fight simply because there is no dual analog option.

I certainly agree with Ozy that MP has some serious control problems. Yes, you figure out how to work around them, that simply makes up too much of the difficulty of the game. In a FPS, having less then ideal controls is akin to having lousy cameras in a third person game and it is certainly a valid complaint in MP's case.

 

[Tagrineth]

The only jumps I had ANY real trouble with in the entire game were the ones in the last room before the end... and that's solely because of the infinite supply of Fission Metroids. Yes, it is frustrating, but that's only until you realise two things: one, the metroids follow a fixed pattern which can be exploited, and two, power bombs kill them instantly after they grab you.

There was one other jump that gave me some grief, that was the first jump after getting the X-Ray visor, for some reason I can never get enough air to reach the first platform.

If you REALLY have that much trouble judging where your feet are when you jump... try holding R, aiming down some (45º seems to be good), holding L, letting go of R. There you go, now you can see your "feet". :\

You complain about the cloaked pirates? Well the whole IDEA is that they're supposed to challenge you by making you use the Thermal Visor! The TV doesn't have that many other uses, really. What the hell are you complaining about? OH NO YOU HAVE TO PUSH DOWN ON THE CROSS PAD! OH SHOCK HORROR! YOUR FINGER WILL SURELY FALL OFF AT THE SHEER DIFFICULTY OF THE TASK! </sarcasm> The first cloaker you fight doesn't even CLOAK because you don't have the appropriate visor yet...

And what miniboss are you talking about, exactly? By the time you really go into the Mines, you have all four visors... and the only boss in the mines which requires a different visor is the Omega Pirate. What's the big deal? So they added some depth to the game! NOOOOOOOOOOOOO~ </sarcasm>

Ridley? Hard? What? I was jammin'! That music rocked... the fight was far too easy IMO. :\ I didn't have any of those lock-on problems, really... and if he charges past you, and you lose the lock because you suck too much to hold left and hit 'B' twice to dodge, you CAN just turn around and lock back on to him! Trying to run without locking on to him is just ASKING for him to recover from his lunge and hit you again. And you have to target his head by manually aiming for it? You really didn't pay much attention to the lockon mechanics at the Station, did you? If the circle reticule appears around something, you can lock onto it even if it's a little above your head level. His head is NEVER too high to lock-on without aiming up. And besides all that, what's so hard about aiming up a tiny bit with R then holding L? OH NO MORE BUTTONS TO PUSH D: Don't try to hide the fact that you suck at the game by blaming the controls.

 

[BenSkywalker]

And what miniboss are you talking about, exactly? By the time you really go into the Mines, you have all four visors... and the only boss in the mines which requires a different visor is the Omega Pirate.

The boss before you get the PBs in the Phazon Mines, and no, you don't have the XRay visor at that point.

Yes, it is frustrating, but that's only until you realise two things:

It's frustrating strictly because of the controls, no other reason. If you had the option to use a modify button to switch to dual analog it would be no problem whatsoever.

Well the whole IDEA is that they're supposed to challenge you by making you use the Thermal Visor! The TV doesn't have that many other uses, really. What the hell are you complaining about?

Actually, activating power switches to open doors is without a doubt the most useful feature of the TV. The 'challenge' is supposed to be switching visors......? It's an annoyance.

Perhaps I should have used the ghost example instead, I fought more then a dozen of them on my current play through and no XRay yet.

Ridley? Hard?

When did I say that? Did you read my post?

extending the length of the fight simply because there is no dual analog option.

It makes it longer, more of an annoyance. Difficulty to me indicates failure, IIRC I had five or six energy tanks left after offing Ridley(prior to picking up what he dropped).

And you have to target his head by manually aiming for it? You really didn't pay much attention to the lockon mechanics at the Station, did you? If the circle reticule appears around something, you can lock onto it even if it's a little above your head level.

That would be great if it were slightly relelvant. If you fight Ridley up close he won't charge at you nearly as often, he will mainly revert to swinging his claws. If you fight him at medium range he will due his growl/flame thing. If you fight him from a distance then he will continue to do the charge(these are tendencies, he will mix it up although the ratio changes based on your distance. If you stand all the way back then you don't have issues tragetting him.

His head is NEVER too high to lock-on without aiming up.

If you fight him up close then when he stands up you are looking about at his knee and you can not lock on to his head. You really didn't pay much attention when you fought him, did you?

And besides all that, what's so hard about aiming up a tiny bit with R then holding L? OH NO MORE BUTTONS TO PUSH D: Don't try to hide the fact that you suck at the game by blaming the controls.

You have to stop moving. This is Samus Aran, the bounty hunter feared throughout the galaxy, and she can't aim and move at the same time....

The game was too easy on normal mode(Hard is much better, though I'm hoping for a higher difficulty level after beating hard). An easy game trying to add length or challenge through sloppy controls/bad layout(platforming segments) is not a good thing.

 

[marconelly!]

I think some people are simply not realistic in their expectations of what a perfect score for a game constitutes.

This is *exactly* what I was thinking. I think the culprit, to a degree, is how games often get score on a 0-100% scale. When something is scored on such a large scale, you expect it to be near damn perfect when it gets 98, 99 or 100%. Also, if you happen not to like particular game, you will be even more inclined to get angry on a reviewer that scored it so high!

I would love if everyone would accept 5 stars review system, like some publication already have, or even better, thumbs up/thumbs down system.

 

[Tagrineth]

The boss before you get the PBs in the Phazon Mines, and no, you don't have the XRay visor at that point.

Hmm, I still don't know what you're talking about, guess it must have been really easy and thus not have been any worry at all to me

It's frustrating strictly because of the controls, no other reason. If you had the option to use a modify button to switch to dual analog it would be no problem whatsoever.

OK, so with dual analogue it'd be easier to turn around midair. That doesn't even account for the simple fact that the game features semi-realistic momentum so you don't necessarily have to hold forward while you jump anyway! You can still turn around midjump, for one thing.

And YES SOME FIGHTING WOULD PROBABLY BE EASIER WITH DUAL ANALOGUE (there, I said it ), but PLEASE OH PLEASE explain to me how platforming should be done with DA? Turok: Evolution's platforming is atrocious, and not just because of level design.

It seems to me like you're wanting this game to be still yet another cookie-cutter FPS with just some spiffy graphical effects and other elements which really shouldn't affect a run and gun mentality!

Actually, activating power switches to open doors is without a doubt the most useful feature of the TV. The 'challenge' is supposed to be switching visors......? It's an annoyance.

I didn't say that fighting cloakers was the most useful, I just said it's one of the FEW. I said 'challenge' sarcastically, it really is a bit of a nuisance but it does keep you on your toes. Plus the thermal visor output looks really cool ^_^ Too bad they forgot to make Phendrana pitch black...

Perhaps I should have used the ghost example instead, I fought more then a dozen of them on my current play through and no XRay yet.

Yeah, they're supposed to be somewhat hard the first few times. At least, until you realise it only takes just over one Super Missile to kill one. But really, the very fact that you can't lock on to them all the time IS what makes them hard. Same as having to swap visors constantly against the rock boss (I'm surprised you haven't brought that up yet!).

Did you even notice how pathetic the ghosts become after getting the X-ray?

When did I say that? Did you read my post?

It makes it longer, more of an annoyance. Difficulty to me indicates failure, IIRC I had five or six energy tanks left after offing Ridley(prior to picking up what he dropped).

That would be great if it were slightly relelvant. If you fight Ridley up close he won't charge at you nearly as often, he will mainly revert to swinging his claws. If you fight him at medium range he will due his growl/flame thing. If you fight him from a distance then he will continue to do the charge(these are tendencies, he will mix it up although the ratio changes based on your distance. If you stand all the way back then you don't have issues tragetting him.

If you fight him up close then when he stands up you are looking about at his knee and you can not lock on to his head. You really didn't pay much attention when you fought him, did you?

No, I didn't pay attention, really, and I still beat him silly. I lost three energy tanks fighting him and if you count picked up energy balls I only lost "one".

Why the devil would you want to get that close to him? The best distance to fight him is mid range, as you say, so he'll do the flame thing... so you can nail his head... so you can hit his chest and do damage.

You have to stop moving. This is Samus Aran, the bounty hunter feared throughout the galaxy, and she can't aim and move at the same time....

Would you rather she's incapable of making simple jumps (Turok:Evolution comes to mind, he can't jump worth shit but he's supposed to hunt dinosaurs?)? She can circle-strafe better than anyone else in the galaxy, I fear that more than being able to manually aim and move at once. And if you lock on to a target you can certainly aim and move simultaneously... just one aspect is done for you. Looks like Samus is more adept than you think!

The game was too easy on normal mode(Hard is much better, though I'm hoping for a higher difficulty level after beating hard). An easy game trying to add length or challenge through sloppy controls/bad layout(platforming segments) is not a good thing.

I didn't end up being more challenged by controls, not one little bit. The layout of the platforming segments is brilliant, as I said there was only one part where I consistently missed a jump (other times I only missed because I was rushing and forgetting the odd aerial pirate here and there, thus getting knocked off-course). I think you're probably the only person I've ever seen complain about Prime's layout / area design, pretty much everyone else agrees Prime has some of the best 3D level design ever seen. This is mainly because the controls facilitate good jumping.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Let's face facts: Miyamoto screwed up the controls in Metroid Prime. The Halo controls would have been perfect for this game, but Nintendo HAD to be different. The more I play the game, the more apparent this becomes.

 

[Tagrineth]

Let's face facts: Miyamoto screwed up the controls in Metroid Prime. The Halo controls would have been perfect for this game, but Nintendo HAD to be different. The more I play the game, the more apparent this becomes.

I have to disagree, even HALO's jumping isn't that fantastic and takes a lot of getting used to. It'd work better if we had a third hand but that'd solve a LOT of control problems these days.

I still don't understand what the big problem is with Prime's controls, I have yet to hit any real snags in them whatsoever. Everyone I know IRL, myself included, has had no problem using them properly on their first try (well actually there is one exception, one guy did die once in the Station).

 

[Geeforcer]

Just because it works doesn't mean its perfect. The fact that I could play FPSs in the PC using numpad for targeting (hey, it worked fairly well in Duke3D) doesn't mean I would not much rather use the mouse.

 

[Blade]

Tagrineth: They have a right to their opinions, even if we think they're silly.

Honestly, I've had almost no problem with MP's controls myself. The platform jumping was problematic once in a while*, but it's easily the best jumping scheme I've seen in a first-person game. It's a console game too.. and first-person jumping with a console controller is usually a chore. In MP, however.. it's a breeze. You people like to exaggerate, it seems.

The other reported qualm is the lack of dual-analog. What's wrong? Did you go in expecting MP to be a FPS? Shame..

MP is not a FPS as the original Metroid games weren't Contra-style action games. Apparently we need some sort of industrial drill to imprint this into some of your brains.. Going dual-analog would change the entire feel of the game..

* More like once in a blue moon, now that I think about it! My only qualm was not being able to turn easily while jumping, and the game doesn't require you to do it. I'm just so used to PC FPS's that I occasionally use FPS-isms in MP.

 

[mkillio]

The only time that I had real trouble with jumping was when I was in the wrecked space station under water without the gravity suit. I also had trouble locking on to Ridley when I was just a shot or two away from finishing him off. I don't know why it happened, I was doing fine before that. I fought him from a distance and just strafed out of the way just as he roared in the air, it worked every time. Plus this game should defenitley not be DA especially when just trying to collect items and exploring.

We should however take this back to the metroid prime thread.

 

[Dural]

The worst offender of a game getting great scores due to hype would be GT3. The game hasn't changed since GT, you can use the same techniques to win races in GT3 as you could in GT, and the AI is still amazingly bad. I still haven't figured out how this game got the 9.5-10s that it received.

 

[zurich]

Splinter Cell would get my vote for overhyping and not delivering.... but I guess thats what you get when a system needs a "GOTY" candidate during the holidays

 

[Ozymandis]

I certainly agree with Ozy that MP has some serious control problems. Yes, you figure out how to work around them, that simply makes up too much of the difficulty of the game. In a FPS, having less then ideal controls is akin to having lousy cameras in a third person game and it is certainly a valid complaint in MP's case.

Thank you Ben. It's good to hear another poster who agrees... and it's more than a little saddening that (to my knowledge) no reviewers have pointed these issues out.

 

[Ozymandis]

BTW, I wouldn't talk about MP's controls Ozy. Everybody kept trying to tell you that the game isn't a straight FPS, more of a first-person adventure.. but you didn't listen. Now you think that they should drop the review score a whole notch because "it's a console FPS and requires dual-analog". I agree that I think that there's a small fault with the MP controls (in certain spots) but I'm not exaggerating like you are. (i.e. posting a little sad face and a comment about the controls every f'ing time a Metroid Prime thread comes up.. )

Oh, and what Teasy said. Besides that, most sites rate according to console. If MP is one of the best games that GCN ever sees (or GOTY, or whatever) there is no reason not to give it 9.5+ reviews. (which it has gotten, 97.6% average on GR)

I like you Blade. I think you're a good poster here, and at Cloudchaser/Xengen. But your point, about Metroid Prime not being an FPS, it's just too hard to swallow.


Yes, the game is exploration-based.

So what? I'm shooting tons of enemies from a first-person perspective. The game IS an FPS, and as such, the controls are flawed (compared to a modern console FPS like Halo). They worked in Maken X, where 90% of the weapons were melee, but in Metroid Prime I find them problematic.

I'm just not going to swallow that old tired "it's an FPA" line, because having played more than half of the game, it's clearly in the FPS genre.


Edit:
Ah, I see you even agree that the controls can be a problem. Like Ben says, controls in a console FPS are like camera in a platformer. It's a huge sticking point if they don't work well. "Exaggerating"? Hardly.


And as far as the frownies go, I really am disappointed. After Panzer Orta was delayed this game was going to be my saviour. The game has such fantastic atmosphere, that I want to fall in love with it... but I'm certainly not in love with the gameplay. Odd to say that about a Nintendo game. It's usually the opposite- good/great gameplay but outrageously-bad art and atmosphere.

Like I keep saying, I feel that Metroid Prime is still the best game that I've played this year. I'm just not going to make excuses for its faults like most of the rest of you.

 

[Legion]

This is why i hate reading reviews so much. I'd rather hear about a game then i would want to hear someone's opinion about it.

Phantom Crash 6.x IGN (WTF, did they actually play the game? This title was extremely fun once you got into it).

SMS 9.X IGN (extremely overrated. Played it for a few hours and got bored).

Kakuto Chujin 6.x IGN (A lot better than Mortal KombatA in my opinion. I would have given it an 8.5).

SFA 8.x IGN (A much better game then SMS if you ask me).

Eternal Darkness 8.x - 9.x (just plainly dull).

RE:0 7 (extended play) - 9 (some reviewers have said it was unoriginal. That didn't keep them from giving RE:REhash higher scores now did it? Sounds a bit hypocritical).

UT2003 9+ (a new graphics/physics engine combine with new characters and 1 new gun. Where is the consistancy in reviews?).

Blood Raine 7 - 8 (an absolutely horrible game).

 

[Ozymandis]

Phantom Crash is a terribly fun game. Needs more arenas, and more part variety/differentiation, but it plays very well. It might be necessary for some Scoobee configurations to customize their controsl for optimal playability though.

Deserves at least an 8.0 I think.

 

[zurich]

I actually really, really enjoyed MKA. 8.5ish is about dead on for it... I didn't enjoy having half of the characters locked out though, and a VF4-esque evade sidestep would have been a welcome part of the weapons fighting (which gave me my Soul Calibur fix btw).

My only major gripe with MKA was the "Attack 1, 2, 3, 4" controlls. What was once "punch" in stance A, becomes "low sweep kick" in stance B. Very hard to keep track of, especially when using multiple characters. High/Low Punch/Kick would have been very welcome in keeping some sort of consistency when playing different characters/stances.

Other than that, great game. Would have liked high LOD models for intro/outro scenes (a la VF/Tekken).

edit: oh, and they put so much emphasis on the story, yet don't include a story mode? Little story cutscenes like DoA would have been a very, very, very nice addition.

edit edit: ALSO, there's only one generic male voice and one generic female voice. Not good =/

Despite all this, I did really enjoy the core gameplay though.. I'm just nitpicking!

 

[BenSkywalker]

I don't know about Johnny and Ozy, but for myself one simple change could have fixed the games controls for me. Move the beam select to the R button and have the C stick for aiming. You could have left everything else alone with the controls, still allowing players to use the lock on when they liked but allowing the option for those of us that wanted it to have dual analog.

Tagrnieth-

Yeah, they're supposed to be somewhat hard the first few times. At least, until you realise it only takes just over one Super Missile to kill one. But really, the very fact that you can't lock on to them all the time IS what makes them hard. Same as having to swap visors constantly against the rock boss (I'm surprised you haven't brought that up yet!).

I'm playing through on Hard, one super missile....no. Two super missiles won't kill them on hard for that matter For the rock boss, the reason I didn't have a problem with that was there was a logical reasoning behind swapping visors. I think that they should have had the thermal visor auto shut off once it was overloaded, but that is a minor quibble. I do have a major problem with the final boss and visors(compltely non sensical), but I don't want to talk about it and ruin it for those who aren't there yet

 

[Teasy]

Let's face facts: Miyamoto screwed up the controls in Metroid Prime. The Halo controls would have been perfect for this game, but Nintendo HAD to be different. The more I play the game, the more apparent this becomes.

The Halo controls would not have been perfect for this game in any way. It would have ruined the game. Tell me, in Metoid Prime what is more important?.. exploring/platforming or shooting? What is the bigger part of Metroid Prime? The answer is obvious, its exploring/platforming, therefore the controls that are best for that sort of thing were used.

If this was yet another, walk a short distance, shoot, walk some more, shoot, walk, shoot, walk shoot ect ect game then yes DA may have been the best choice (although personally I prefer GE's controls in a FPS). But its not one of those games.

BTW I hated Halo's controls, because its a FPS on a pad using two sticks.. I just hate that and find it annoying, but I wouldn't expect reviewers to complain about that because I realise its just something I don't like and most people do like that control scheme

I think a few people here are just going to have to realise that they are in the extreme minoity in disliking MP's controls.