How to sell next-gen consoles, Marketing, Positioning, and Pricing [2020]

[iroboto]

I agree with what was said above about avoiding to bring Sony here. Regardless, you saw trailers, not games.
For either the PS5 or the SeriesX, I believe only the very early next-gen and current-gen games with a boost patch will be playing at native 4K. Just like many cross 7th-gen game remasters that played at 720p30 on the PS360 played at 1080p60 in the 8th-gen consoles. Once devs become more comfortable with the platform and want to take full advantage of the SeriesX to show graphics and effects (e.g. raytracing) you couldn't possibly see on the 8th-gen consoles, I doubt we'll see many full 4K titles, if at all.

Fair enough. Though I'm sure at the start of this generation we had similar concerns if I recall correctly. XBO started out as 720 and there were major concerns it would not be able to keep up at the back half of the generation. The reality is that for the most part it did, but as we approach the end here it's clearly struggling. In many ways XBSS is a mid-pack GPU being launched here, but the target resolution is much lower. I'm not sure what that entails for it honestly, a form of DLSS would keep it alive longer in theory, but that's a big if. That being said I'm not sure if there will be a pro model this coming generation; doubling compute from where they are today would require a massive amount of bandwidth to feed.

 

[AzBat]

Why would I not be a potential xbox owner? I can probably afford both consoles within the next couple of years and I'm on xbox gold for PC. If I feel like the SeriesX is a good purchase I'll buy one.
And to be honest, all it takes for me to drop the PS5 as "main console" is for Sony's first parties to ryan-johnson their flagship sequels, like what Naughty Dog did to Last of Us 2.

Because you're a Playstation fanboy like I'm a Xbox fanboy. BTW, I don't see Sony mishandling their 1st party sequels. I would disagree that Naughty Dog did that with LOU2.

Yes, it did during the first couple of years of both consoles. This is a Digital Foundry article from late 2014:

So about half the multiplatform games from the first year after the consoles' release would not show any clear advantage towards the PS4 that sported >40% higher GPU compute performance, 88% higher fillrate and 150% higher main memory bandwidth (for which the small 32MB esram pool proved to not be very effective at mitigating).
This isn't some conspiracy theory, as some studios even openly admitted they were aiming for graphics parity between xbone and ps4.
Batman: Arkham Knight Aiming for Graphics Parity Across Xbox One and PS4
Assassin's Creed Unity is 900p/30fps on both PS4 & Xbox One

Ok, so it had some effect on about half of the third party games in the first year. Not terribly bad. Did it get worse or better the next 6 years?

Personally, I would say you would have every right to be worried if it was just PS5 vs XBSS, but it's not. My suspicion is it's going to be PS5 vs XBSX in 1440p & greater resolutions and PS5 vs XBSS in 1080p & lower resolutions.

Tommy McClain

 

[BRiT]

I think the Lockhart/SeriesS will do fine if rumors are true. It has 40% GPU rendering power of PS5 but targetting 25% the resolution. It also has faster CPU than PS5. With same speed SSD as SeriesX but scaled down resource usage to 25% it may even have faster loading than PS5 too. It should be fairly cheap too.

An important aspect is how does Microsoft market this to consumers so they're aware of the benefits?

 

[Xbat]

I think the Lockhart/SeriesS will do fine if rumors are true. It has 40% GPU rendering power of PS5 but targetting 25% the resolution.

Yeah, only problem is if games start targeting 1440p at 30fps.

 

[AzBat]

Yeah, only problem is if games start targeting 1440p at 30fps.

That would run at 900p 30fps, not great, but fine for a budget console & plenty for xCloud on mobile devices.

Tommy McClain

 

[Deleted member 13524]

That being said I'm not sure if there will be a pro model this coming generation

I don't know if the launch of mid-gens is decided or not, but at least Sony is/was definitely looking at ways how to do it.
The summary on that patent couldn't be any more explicit as to why they're looking at multiple-SoCs operation:

This was filed back in January 2019, by the way.

 

[iroboto]

I don't know if the launch of mid-gens is decided or not, but at least Sony is/was definitely looking at ways how to do it.
The summary on that patent couldn't be any more explicit as to why they're looking at multiple-SoCs operation:

This was filed back in January 2019, by the way.

yea I'd be very interested to see how they manage to accomplish this in 3-4 years time. if it does come, I'd bank on HBM coming down in price enough, but if there are other method I'm all for learning about it

 

[Deleted member 13524]

yea I'd be very interested to see how they manage to accomplish this in 3-4 years time. if it does come, I'd bank on HBM coming down in price enough, but if there are other method I'm all for learning about it

Yes, I'd say this would require the PS5's 5nm or even 3nm SoC shrink to come with both a very wide infinity fabric external bus for inter-SoC operation and maybe one HBM2E @ 3.6Gbps stack per SoC. Otherwise they'd need to somehow get 2*16 channels of GDDR6 into a single PCB which might be very hard to do.

 

[iroboto]

Yes, I'd say this would require the PS5's 5nm or even 3nm SoC shrink to come with both a very wide infinity fabric external bus for inter-SoC operation and maybe one HBM2E @ 3.6Gbps stack per SoC. Otherwise they'd need to somehow get 2*16 channels of GDDR6 into a single PCB which might be very hard to do.

On this note however, I'm not sure if the 'pro' models would be at a reasonable price point by any margin.
Like, if we see 599 consoles here for this generation. They would likely be at best 450+ by the time 3-4 years roll by. I just can't see a pro model being less than 900 at least. That's generally speaking out of reach for most consumers.

 

[eastmen]

On this note however, I'm not sure if the 'pro' models would be at a reasonable price point by any margin.
Like, if we see 599 consoles here for this generation. They would likely be at best 450+ by the time 3-4 years roll by. I just can't see a pro model being less than 900 at least. That's generally speaking out of reach for most consumers.

That's why you have the XSX and XSS

In 4 years MS stops selling both of those consoles. Then you get XSX2024 XSS 2024. They leverage new cpu/gpu designs. So for example you have a 10 gig XSS with 4tflop gpu and 8 core cpu . IN 2024 you get a 16-20 gig XSS with the 2024 versions of ryzen and rdna or whatever amd has at that point and its performance is closer to the original XSX device but targeting a lower price point. You also get a XSX using the same new tech with a higher target for performance. Maybe that will be 18tflop or 20tflops

 

[Daozang]

Physically based rendering, made a huge difference in games.
In my opinion, PBR and volumetrics, are the two most important real time techniques that changed graphics in games in the last few years.
Every time a new generation of hardware is introduced, we see a leap in graphics fidelity.
Framerates and resolution can be brute forced with faster and more powerful hardware.
Anyone of us that owns a gaming PC can attest to that.
But a true leap, comes when first party developers can use a new powerful system, and third party developers can develop a game from the ground up to harness the potential of those new powerful systems.
And us PC gamers can rationalize the expense of a new GPU.

I am a cranky old PC gamer, I know.
But getting a new generation of consoles, only to see the same tech cranked up to 11 due to sheer brute force, because the damn game needs to run on a potato, is a shocking first, and a disheartening first at that.
Playing Halo 3 at 1440p 144hz, is pleasant, but in no way is it impressive.

The transition from the old gen to the next, is going to be hell this time around.
At least the XSS is going to have an ssd, right?
Because I'm starting to believe this will be generation eight and a half...

 

[BRiT]

At least the XSS is going to have an ssd, right?

Based on Current Rumors:

Same CPU as SeriesX.
Same SSD as SeriesX
GPU is some 40% of PS5, and some 33% of Series X
Memory is 10 GB total
Target Resolution is 25% of PS5 and Series X [1080p]

So the same speed SSD as SeriesX but pulling in resources at 25% the size may result with faster loading than even the PS5.

 

[PSman1700]

Because I'm starting to believe this will be generation eight and a half...

Yes, in the first few years, Xbox one S from 2013 isn't going to be supported forever It's a rolling generation from MS's side, not a generational shift from one day to another like Sony does. Perhaps for the last time also.
Games are going to look truly next gen from MS too, it will just take longer.

 

[Daozang]

Based on Current Rumors:

Same CPU as SeriesX.
Same SSD as SeriesX
GPU is some 40% of PS5, and some 33% of Series X
Memory is 10 GB total
Target Resolution is 25% of PS5 and Series X [1080p]

So the same speed SSD as SeriesX but pulling in resources at 25% the size may result with faster loading than even the PS5.

I don't get the percentages, but having an nvme drive is a relief.
I really haven't paid much attention to the PS5 specs, because I am mostly interested in their first party games and their strategy remains basically the same, so I know what to expect.
I am interested in MS's strategy, because it is getting clearer and clearer to me that this is what will define what 3d party games (and MS "exclusives") will look like for the foreseeable future.

 

[BRiT]

@Daozang , first Percentage is based on GPU performance, second percentage is display resolution targets (likely)

• SeriesS/Lockhart is 4.x TF
• PS5 is 10.28 TF max
• SeriesX is 12.155 TF

• SeriesS/Lockhart is 1080p
• PS5 is 4k
• SeriesX is 4K

 

[iroboto]

nd us PC gamers can rationalize the expense of a new GPU.

QFT.

PC gamers are totally okay with paying anywhere between 500-1500 for a GPU alone. 3080TI I suspect is going to land in the upper 1600s possibly.

When I look at the specs, honestly I can't see these consoles being that cheap. 599 is a steal, 699 is a steal, even 799 is ok when you consider what's inside both of them. But I thin the market is going to struggle with any price point above 499. It's really a weird situation. Gaming is a really weird industry where traditionally their customers are unwilling to accept price increases regardless of YoY inflation.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I think the Lockhart/SeriesS will do fine if rumors are true. It has 40% GPU rendering power of PS5 but targetting 25% the resolution. It also has faster CPU than PS5. With same speed SSD as SeriesX but scaled down resource usage to 25% it may even have faster loading than PS5 too.

Interesting, I hadn't considered that developers would have different packages for Series S and Series X. If that's the same, and assets are small,er then depending on what the memory setup is for Series S, it could have more usable memory bandwidth than Series X. Wouldn't that be interesting!

t should be fairly cheap too.

I wouldn't get your hopes up. Some of the price predictions being thrown around are ludicrously out of touch with reality.

 

[RDGoodla]

Based on Current Rumors:

Same CPU as SeriesX.
Same SSD as SeriesX
GPU is some 40% of PS5, and some 33% of Series X
Memory is 10 GB total
Target Resolution is 25% of PS5 and Series X [1080p]

So the same speed SSD as SeriesX but pulling in resources at 25% the size may result with faster loading than even the PS5.

Jason of Kotaku said xb series s targets 1440p.

Do we have any idea what PS5 resolution is for multi-platform games?

 

[London Geezer]

QFT.

PC gamers are totally okay with paying anywhere between 500-1500 for a GPU alone. 3080TI I suspect is going to land in the upper 1600s possibly.

When I look at the specs, honestly I can't see these consoles being that cheap. 599 is a steal, 699 is a steal, even 799 is ok when you consider what's inside both of them. But I thin the market is going to struggle with any price point above 499. It's really a weird situation. Gaming is a really weird industry where traditionally their customers are unwilling to accept price increases regardless of YoY inflation.

Well By now I'm pretty sure that the number 1 reason we still don't know the price only 2-3 months before launch (allegedly?) is because these beasts are not going to be cheap. And by that, I mean that I fully expect them to breach the 499 barrier, and both MS and Sony are scared sh!tless about that. If that weren't the case, then they would have come out already a while ago with their 499's or whatever they can come up with. My opinion of course.

So we might get £499 in the UK, which would probably be $599 in the US (GBP 499 GBP = USD 650 today). Which is fine by me, but when the news cycle this month is about how deep this "deepest ever recession" is (-20% of GDP here in the UK for example), then I can understand why they are pussyfooting around this one last detail.

 

[RDGoodla]

How do you think the delay of Halo Infinite?

In US PS5 has Spider Man for launch, but XsX now has no comparable exclusive games after Halo delay.