How to sell next-gen consoles, Marketing, Positioning, and Pricing [2020]

[Eolirin]

Ironically Micrososft calling it a 1440p machine is probably what led to Ubisoft going for 1440p on Valhalla...

I suspect Ubi just didn't get enough time to optimize against the S.

Most people won't be able to tell the difference between the two devices, even with 30 vs 60 fps in an action game like AC. Especially if they're not swapping back and forth between the two. It doesn't feel bad, it doesn't look bad. There's no intuitive reference point for the difference.

We've already hit diminishing returns pretty hard on graphics quality, and I think people in communities like these underestimate how hard it is for "normal" people to recognize the kinds of graphical differences that'll exist between the X and S.

The AC Valhalla fps gap is more of a pr issue than something the vast majority of the user base is going to notice the effects of.

 

[cheapchips]

We've already hit diminishing returns pretty hard on graphics quality

I think we probably have a thread for that, but I'd say we've hit diminishing returns on current gen geometry and lighting pipelines. For next gen, the improvements in both are going to make a bigger difference than launch titles would suggest. Demon's' S'oul's' is just a taster.

(Btw, when do we start calling the next generation the current generation? There must be some sort of official mandate?!)

 

[BRiT]

(Btw, when do we start calling the next generation the current generation? There must be some sort of official mandate?!)

Its already current gen for most users, nearly all users. Its only a few users that are refusing to have current-gen systems. They'd rather be on last-gen. For some silly reason they decided to wait until next Thursday.

 

[London Geezer]

Its already current gen for most users, nearly all users. Its only a few users that are refusing to have current-gen systems. They'd rather be on last-gen. For some silly reason they decided to wait until next Thursday.

We are stuck in the past!! FOUR MORE YEARS!

 

[cheapchips]

We are stuck in the past!! FOUR MORE YEARS!

Your wish is granted! Sadly for those of us in the UK we do have four more years of a blond buffoon in power.

 

[tuna]

Most people won't be able to tell the difference between the two devices, even with 30 vs 60 fps in an action game like AC.

Do you have any data to back this statement?

 

[goonergaz]

I suspect Ubi just didn't get enough time to optimize against the S.

Most people won't be able to tell the difference between the two devices, even with 30 vs 60 fps in an action game like AC. Especially if they're not swapping back and forth between the two. It doesn't feel bad, it doesn't look bad. There's no intuitive reference point for the difference.

We've already hit diminishing returns pretty hard on graphics quality, and I think people in communities like these underestimate how hard it is for "normal" people to recognize the kinds of graphical differences that'll exist between the X and S.

The AC Valhalla fps gap is more of a pr issue than something the vast majority of the user base is going to notice the effects of.

I don’t know, it’s a big difference to spot vs double resolution or something like that - the whole game is just significantly smoother.

 

[dobwal]

I suspect Ubi just didn't get enough time to optimize against the S.

Most people won't be able to tell the difference between the two devices, even with 30 vs 60 fps in an action game like AC. Especially if they're not swapping back and forth between the two. It doesn't feel bad, it doesn't look bad. There's no intuitive reference point for the difference.

We've already hit diminishing returns pretty hard on graphics quality, and I think people in communities like these underestimate how hard it is for "normal" people to recognize the kinds of graphical differences that'll exist between the X and S.

The AC Valhalla fps gap is more of a pr issue than something the vast majority of the user base is going to notice the effects of.

Its not even a PR issue, as these products' overall success isn't going to hinge on a 6 fps difference on a single launch title.

 

[zed]

Aside from the raw $100 being enough of a difference for some, the cost of entry and cost of ownership are significantly lower for XSS All Access/Gamepass subscribers.

A $399 console + a few $70 games

Vs.

$25 a month for the S with games, including a reasonable amount of Madden time.

Or

$299 to play my favourite F2P at better settings.

The $ per spec comparison or fps isn't where enough potential customers will be making their purchasing decision. It's not even making a difference on here, where on performance principles no B3Der would buy an S. A few have, for reasons.

I was actually comparing the series S against the series X, not the sony consoles I didnt even mention those.

My point is, Once you factor in that the series S only has 364 GB of storage, thus you very likely will need to buy extra storage

At $300 + who knows (https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/24/...-series-x-1tb-expandable-storage-price-219-99)
ok say we can get it for $150
$450 vs $500
$450 for a 4tf/10gb memory machine that plays games with lower res / FPS and FX.
Why would anyone buy this thing? Instead of spending that extra $50

If it was $200 I can see them making a case for it but at $300 I see this struggling, ppl will buy it if they cant get the series X as thats their only option

My prediction in about 18months the series S will be dropped an replaced by a ~6TF machine with more memory for the same price. Just like MS done with the xbox one - > xbox one S
meaning those unlucky enuf to be stuck with a series S get even a worse experience as developers will target 6TF as the minimum spec (just like what happened last gen after the release of the xbox one S)

 

[cheapchips]

I was actually comparing the series S against the series X, not the sony consoles I didn't even mention those.

Ah. MIssed that in getting caught up the the DE part.

To be clear, I do think the X is better value if you want to pay for it. An a $400-$450 XAD would also be better value, if you want to pay for it. The S, including storage amount, is perfectly adequate for a good set of potential customers though. I don't see them being any more tempted at $400-$450 that at $500. Cheapest and good enough is good enough.

My prediction in about 18months the series S will be dropped an replaced by a ~6TF machine with more memory for the same price. Just like MS done with the xbox one - > xbox one S
meaning those unlucky enuf to be stuck with a series S get even a worse experience as developers will target 6TF as the minimum spec (just like what happened last gen after the release of the xbox one S)

I don't understand why they'd do that at 18 mths. Who's served by the 2 TF extra/RAM?* We've not had specific "I can't do this with my game" complaints about the 8GB yet from developers, just some vague complaints. Not saying that issues won't show later but even first parties are planning for cross gen titles in 2021.

If there's a cost savings to be had it'll go into making the S cheaper. I think MS would have prefered $250 if they could have, but we're still in early adopter territory even for the S. Why give away $50 x however many S's they sell in 18mths.

* With my hardware geek hat on, I'd like it to be that, as it's really a much truer 1440p machine with One X BC. On paper at least.

 

[Deleted member 7537]

I don't understand why they'd do that at 18 mths. Who's served by the 2 TF extra/RAM?* We've not had specific "I can't do this with my game" complaints about the 8GB yet from developers, just some vague complaints. Not saying that issues won't show later but even first parties are planning for cross gen titles in 2021.

If there's a cost savings to be had it'll go into making the S cheaper. I think MS would have prefered $250 if they could have, but we're still in early adopter territory even for the S. Why give away $50 x however many S's they sell in 18mths.

* With my hardware geek hat on, I'd like it to be that, as it's really a much truer 1440p machine with One X BC. On paper at least.

Yep, I don't think it will be replaced any time soon, being Zen 2 and RDNA 2 based it has a modern toolset that will last for several years. I think developers will be much happier if they can drop PS4/XBO versions of their games before complaining about Series S which a damn fine console for casual gaming and BC. But I do agree that SX seems to be the better value, if Series S games tend to be closer to 1080p and without the DLSS like capabilities of NVIDIA cards, 1080p on 4K TVs does look kind of ugly.

 

[goonergaz]

I was actually comparing the series S against the series X, not the sony consoles I didnt even mention those.

My point is, Once you factor in that the series S only has 364 GB of storage, thus you very likely will need to buy extra storage

At $300 + who knows (https://www.theverge.com/2020/9/24/...-series-x-1tb-expandable-storage-price-219-99)
ok say we can get it for $150
$450 vs $500
$450 for a 4tf/10gb memory machine that plays games with lower res / FPS and FX.
Why would anyone buy this thing? Instead of spending that extra $50

If it was $200 I can see them making a case for it but at $300 I see this struggling, ppl will buy it if they cant get the series X as thats their only option

My prediction in about 18months the series S will be dropped an replaced by a ~6TF machine with more memory for the same price. Just like MS done with the xbox one - > xbox one S
meaning those unlucky enuf to be stuck with a series S get even a worse experience as developers will target 6TF as the minimum spec (just like what happened last gen after the release of the xbox one S)

And devs have yet another platform to target?
I thought the XBOs was just a minor bump in speeds so it’s not the same as changing the spec to a 50% increase.

 

[iroboto]

And devs have yet another platform to target?
I thought the XBOs was just a minor bump in speeds so it’s not the same as changing the spec to a 50% increase.

Very minor speed increase to support HDR and to ensure BC would work across different clock speeds.

 

[zed]

Very minor speed increase to support HDR and to ensure BC would work across different clock speeds.

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...as-a-gpu-overclock-and-we-have-benchmarked-it
Seems like it did have real world changes, yes not much but as digital foundry say ‘others run noticeably faster’

 

[Johnny Awesome]

My prediction in about 18months the series S will be dropped an replaced by a ~6TF machine with more memory for the same price. Just like MS done with the xbox one - > xbox one S
meaning those unlucky enuf to be stuck with a series S get even a worse experience as developers will target 6TF as the minimum spec (just like what happened last gen after the release of the xbox one S)

Not likely. Also, there's not much difference between the One and the One S (7% extra compute), so your analogy is highly flawed.

Also, people don't make the sort of calculations you think they do. That's why marketing works. When cash-strapped mom walks into Walmart next year and sees the cute little XSS at $249 that plays "all the same game as XSX" she's not going to start worrying about the 384 GB SSD capacity or whether or not she could get the PS5 DE for only $150 more as she doesn't want to spend $400 on a game console. She's certainly not going to worry about 30 fps vs. 60 fps or 1440p vs. 1080p. People that worry about these things buy XSX or PS5.

First rule of marketing: Never make the mistake of thinking that people are like yourself.

 

[JPT]

Not likely. Also, there's not much difference between the One and the One S (7% extra compute), so your analogy is highly flawed.

Also, people don't make the sort of calculations you think they do. That's why marketing works. When cash-strapped mom walks into Walmart next year and sees the cute little XSS at $249 that plays "all the same game as XSX" she's not going to start worrying about the 384 GB SSD capacity or whether or not she could get the PS5 DE for only $150 more as she doesn't want to spend $400 on a game console. She's certainly not going to worry about 30 fps vs. 60 fps or 1440p vs. 1080p. People that worry about these things buy XSX or PS5.

First rule of marketing: Never make the mistake of thinking that people are like yourself.

I totally agree with you on your points, BUT

I do not have any numbers to back this up.
As I mentioned in another post those who knows what they need, will buy the right products. Others that are less technically inclined seems to go for flagship products ref iPhone/Samsung etc.
XSS are for those that buys into a gen a bit later, at least that is our assumption, but are we sure they are happy with a less capable product now, instead of a more capable product later?
Also mom and pops buying the cheapest devices, I do understand that, but I think this really comes down to social demography, I grew up in the lower parter of the middle class here in Norway and my parents saved up to get me nice stuff (yes I was spoiled as a child, still spoiled, but I pay for my own toys now.)
It would be very interesting to see if XSS actually hits its target market or its just that XSX is sold out and people get it just to get a new XB.
Then again gamepass might be the game changer here, if you just pay N dollars per month for a year? Then can upgrade to XSX, might just be the trick, I do not know. It will be very interesting to see going forward.

I just checked a normal electronics store and they have XSS in stock, XSX will be back in stock 4th of Januar, I wish I had enthusiasm for the XB, then I could just pop out and get an XSS now. Instead I am waiting for PS5 to ship, crossing my fingers that nothing goes wrong with that.

 

[iroboto]

https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/...as-a-gpu-overclock-and-we-have-benchmarked-it
Seems like it did have real world changes, yes not much but as digital foundry say ‘others run noticeably faster’

Some internal sources really pegged the clock increase to ensure that BC boosted clocks would work for X1X. As I understand it.
1S was released in 2015/2016, so they used that as an opportunity to ensure nothing would break.

I don't really think the clock speed differential is anywhere substantial enough to program a new profile for.

 

[AzBat]

I think MS would have prefered $250 if they could have

I do too, but their hand was dealt for them. Remember the Series S was leaked ahead of time. It's very possible that had Sony announced PS5DE first @ $400 they could have announced the Series S at $250. That's why the whole leak sucked. They may have wanted to react to Sony's prices instead.

Tommy McClain

 

[zed]

First rule of marketing: Never make the mistake of thinking that people are like yourself.

As one should always write expectations before.
I predict the series S will have a pricecut within 18 months due to it not selling as well as they hoped

 

[cheapchips]

As one should always write expectations before.
I predict the series S will have a pricecut within 18 months due to it not selling as well as they hoped

The first 18mths are early-ish adopter territory. I think they may pricedrop, but not because they have Series S's sat in the warehouse. It's a natural move to hit the next tranche of potential customers. I think they'll have a $250 500GB and $300 1TB on offer in 2022.