How to sell next-gen consoles, Marketing, Positioning, and Pricing [2020]

[iroboto]

Is this something specific to Demon Souls? I've got three PS5 discs (Valhalla, Miles Morales and Sackboy - with Dirt 5 on the way) and have been swapping between Astrobot, Valhalla and Sackboy quite a lot not had any software issues or with discs not starting up. I have read that Miles Morales was causing some console crashes but I've yet to start it.

Any problems with any other disc-based games?


Nope. I agree with your analogy though. The "most powerful console" stuff, which in my experience was not that prominent, just the odd tweet and mentions on Microsoft's website, could bite them on the arse. Sony, ironically mostly poor comms all year, under-promised and over-delivered. This is generally the best approach.

From the reports I'm reading, I don't think it's isolated to any particular title. It does appear that the titles that are played the most experience this issue the most; so most PS5 owners are reporting trouble with SM:MM. But I think it's because it sells the most, so by percentage you're going to see more complaints about crashing around that particular title.

Demon's Souls when playing has been a fairly rock solid experience for me, not a single issue. Getting into Demon's Souls tends to be where the trouble area is for me.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Demon's Souls when playing has been a fairly rock solid experience for me, not a single issue. Getting into Demon's Souls tends to be where the trouble area is for me.

So the reason I asked about have you tried other discs, is that it could be an issue with the physical disc or the drive.

 

[iroboto]

So the reason I asked about have you tried other discs, is that it could be an issue with the physical disc or the drive.

yea unfortunately I can't comment on that then; I only have 1 game and 1 disc =(
It doesn't seem an issue with the disc drive though. Just seems to forget/refuse to spin up to check the license. After a reboot it seems to remember.

just happened again. And now my patching progress is wonky

I’m at a screen that says:
Copying the update file
274.6 MB / 274.6 MB (99+ Hours left)

so basically I’m stuck at 100%
I can proceed without patching however.

And then 30 minutes later for some odd reason it’s done copying. And then I can patch and play.

 

[wco81]

Phil Spencer interviewed on The Vergecast.

Said they started ramping manufacturing late as they waited for some last-minute things from AMD.

Said they are selling at a slight loss and seemed uncertain if that was also the case with the PS5.

Said that they could do pretty much the same things using the browser, specifically Mobile Safari to deliver XCloud, as they would have done with an app. Still talking to Apple though to see if they can come to some agreement.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Phil Spencer interviewed on The Vergecast.

It's the weirdest interview. On a few issues he's commenting on things he shouldn't be, like how both Microsoft and Sony lament the launch issues. You just don't do that. Ignoring those things, it's full of interesting stuff.

 

[iroboto]

Phil needs to be careful about transparency becoming excuses even if they aren't meant to be or intended to be.
It's much better to just say, we projected to sell this many for launch given our timelines for our silicon.
is better than,
we had to wait for features for RDNA 2 before we could start the build process.

Even then, I'm not even sure if it's RDNA 2 that's holding up their build process. I'm not sure if design and manufacturing are related in that way.

That's like, not going to work when you're getting your butt kicked for launch titles.

 

[BillSpencer]

Did anybody notice how MS is not claiming the most powerful console anymore?

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoles/xbox-series-x

"THE FASTEST,
MOST POWERFUL
XBOX EVER"

My guess is that they are doing this to avoid lawsuits in the USA (and possible other countries).

I can already see it, with a class action lawsuit, the lawyers of the litigants call to the stage the guys from digital foundry to give an explanation to the jury. With their videos showing on a screen, showing Xbox not being the most powerful console. It would be PR hell

 

[BRiT]

Already discussed previously.

 

[Shortbread]

Did anybody notice how MS is not claiming the most powerful console anymore?

https://www.xbox.com/en-US/consoles/xbox-series-x

My guess is that they are doing this to avoid lawsuits in the USA (and possible other countries).

I can already see it, with a class action lawsuit, the lawyers of the litigants call to the stage the guys from digital foundry to give an explanation to the jury. With their videos showing on a screen, showing Xbox not being the most powerful console. It would be PR hell

Microsoft rewording isn't anything seedy. Technically, XBSX does have an advantage when it comes to raw compute performance. How it is used in real-world gaming is a whole other matter left up to developers.

 

[eastmen]

You know I also want to address the naming schemes here. You guys think the names are hard to understand but they are simple.
You have the
Xbox
Xbox 360 and its variations like elite , s , se
Then we move on to the xbox one

XBOX ONE
/ \
Xbox One S (base) Xbox One X (high end )
/ \
Xbox Series S Xbox Series X


The Naming is simple.


You have

Xbox -( this is the brand name denoting its a gaming console)

One/ Series - This is the generation of console

S/X - this is where it sits in the in that generation.

If you have an Xbox One X you do not want to get a Series S if you want to target the high end of gaming again.

I think it makes more sense than current cell phone naming.

If you bought a Iphone XS or XS max what do you upgrade too ? THe iphone 12 ? 12 pro ? 12 mini , Pro max ? . What if you had a iphone 8 where is the new plus model or X model ?

Same with Samsung. I bought a Galaxy note 9 my wife is the galaxy 9 . There was a galaxy note 10 and they introduced the + in that line. But then they added a Note 20 and Note 20 ultra... what happened to 11 , 12, 13 etc. Same with the galaxy 9.

The galaxy 9 was the galaxy 9 or 9+ then what happened ? where is the 10 or 11 ? No idea. I think the galaxy 9 line became the galaxy s line and there was a s20 and s21 with + and ultras and what not.


I admit the sony naming line is a bit easier. They had the ps4 and ps4 pro. But they also only had 2 major refreshes last gen. MS did a lot of work between the xbox one and xbox one s mainly clock tweaking , HDR and a much smaller form factor. This gen they have the PS5 and PS5 DE. If they do a redesign of the PS5 to get its size down they may fall into the same trap as MS . They could end up with the PS5/ PS5 DE , PS5 Slim/ DE Slim and then maybe PS5 Pro / PRO DE.

 

[Metal_Spirit]

You know I also want to address the naming schemes here. You guys think the names are hard to understand but they are simple.
You have the
Xbox
Xbox 360 and its variations like elite , s , se
Then we move on to the xbox one

XBOX ONE
/ \
Xbox One S (base) Xbox One X (high end )
/ \
Xbox Series S Xbox Series X


The Naming is simple.


You have

Xbox -( this is the brand name denoting its a gaming console)

One/ Series - This is the generation of console

S/X - this is where it sits in the in that generation.

If you have an Xbox One X you do not want to get a Series S if you want to target the high end of gaming again.

I think it makes more sense than current cell phone naming.

If you bought a Iphone XS or XS max what do you upgrade too ? THe iphone 12 ? 12 pro ? 12 mini , Pro max ? . What if you had a iphone 8 where is the new plus model or X model ?

Same with Samsung. I bought a Galaxy note 9 my wife is the galaxy 9 . There was a galaxy note 10 and they introduced the + in that line. But then they added a Note 20 and Note 20 ultra... what happened to 11 , 12, 13 etc. Same with the galaxy 9.

The galaxy 9 was the galaxy 9 or 9+ then what happened ? where is the 10 or 11 ? No idea. I think the galaxy 9 line became the galaxy s line and there was a s20 and s21 with + and ultras and what not.


I admit the sony naming line is a bit easier. They had the ps4 and ps4 pro. But they also only had 2 major refreshes last gen. MS did a lot of work between the xbox one and xbox one s mainly clock tweaking , HDR and a much smaller form factor. This gen they have the PS5 and PS5 DE. If they do a redesign of the PS5 to get its size down they may fall into the same trap as MS . They could end up with the PS5/ PS5 DE , PS5 Slim/ DE Slim and then maybe PS5 Pro / PRO DE.

Shure... Now tell that to Google.
And explain to people who dont even follow things, why 360 comes before One, why the first XBox isn't the One, why series is a denomination, why series comes after One, and why a series new generation console has worst resolutions than a previous generation one, when a generation, since over 40 years meant a leap in all regards.

Calling a simple numbering solution of 1,2,3,4,5, where all consoles of newer generations are better in all regards than the previous one, and when in the presence of two models, the better one is called Pro, as something "a bit simpler", must be the understatement of the Century.

 

[eastmen]

Shure... Now tell that to Google.
And explain to people who dont even follow things, why 360 comes before One, why the first XBox isn't the One, why series is a denomination, why series comes after One, and why a series new generation console has worst resolutions than a previous generation one, when a generation, since over 40 years meant a leap in all regards.

Calling a simple numbering Orestes solution of 1,2,3,4,5, where all consoles of newer generations are better in all regards than the previous one, and when in the presence of two models, the better one is called Pro, as something "a bit simpler", must be the understatement of the Century.

Okay so . Nintendo enterainment system to super nintendo to ninendo 64 to gamecube to wii to wii u to switch. Sega master system to genesis ... or is that mega drive to saturn to dreamcast.

The only one I see using boring numbers is Sony.

Also since when did resolution become the be all end all of console generations. You know I missed a few systems but my first system was the nes. No one talked about resolution then. It was all bits. Why are we switching to resolution ?

Did the previous console generation do ray tracing ? did it have the quick resume feature ? So myopic in thought

 

[goonergaz]

You know I also want to address the naming schemes here. You guys think the names are hard to understand but they are simple.
You have the
Xbox
Xbox 360 and its variations like elite , s , se
Then we move on to the xbox one

XBOX ONE
/ \
Xbox One S (base) Xbox One X (high end )
/ \
Xbox Series S Xbox Series X


The Naming is simple.


You have

Xbox -( this is the brand name denoting its a gaming console)

One/ Series - This is the generation of console

S/X - this is where it sits in the in that generation.

If you have an Xbox One X you do not want to get a Series S if you want to target the high end of gaming again.

I think it makes more sense than current cell phone naming.

If you bought a Iphone XS or XS max what do you upgrade too ? THe iphone 12 ? 12 pro ? 12 mini , Pro max ? . What if you had a iphone 8 where is the new plus model or X model ?

Same with Samsung. I bought a Galaxy note 9 my wife is the galaxy 9 . There was a galaxy note 10 and they introduced the + in that line. But then they added a Note 20 and Note 20 ultra... what happened to 11 , 12, 13 etc. Same with the galaxy 9.

The galaxy 9 was the galaxy 9 or 9+ then what happened ? where is the 10 or 11 ? No idea. I think the galaxy 9 line became the galaxy s line and there was a s20 and s21 with + and ultras and what not.


I admit the sony naming line is a bit easier. They had the ps4 and ps4 pro. But they also only had 2 major refreshes last gen. MS did a lot of work between the xbox one and xbox one s mainly clock tweaking , HDR and a much smaller form factor. This gen they have the PS5 and PS5 DE. If they do a redesign of the PS5 to get its size down they may fall into the same trap as MS . They could end up with the PS5/ PS5 DE , PS5 Slim/ DE Slim and then maybe PS5 Pro / PRO DE.

We (the sad minority of the inter webs) don’t have an issue, after an initial reveal we easily pick these things up.

There’s 2 issues causing the problems; 1) it doesn’t follow a logical naming convention and 2) the names between this and last gen are far too similar for ‘mums and dads’ to understand without explanation.

With PlayStation it’s really clear, Nintendo also (bar the WiiU). I think they should have had 2 different names, Xbox series casual and Xbox series extreme or something like that.

 

[cheapchips]

the names between this and last gen are far too similar for ‘mums and dads’ to understand without explanation.

That's irrelevant. Kids will ensure they explain it to their parents. By the time the things are actually in stock properly it's not like parents can make a purchasing error. Kid wants latest Xbox. "How much?". The $299 or $499 Xbox their kids has asked for the only thing on shelves anyway.

This name stuff is just nonsense.

 

[goonergaz]

That's irrelevant. Kids will ensure they explain it to their parents. By the time the things are actually in stock properly it's not like parents can make a purchasing error. Kid wants latest Xbox. "How much?". The $299 or $499 Xbox their kids has asked for the only thing on shelves anyway.

This name stuff is just nonsense.

yet we have reports of people buying the wrong consoles

 

[cheapchips]

yet we have reports of people buying the wrong consoles

Have the 'reports' reached double figures yet? It's irrelevant.

 

[goonergaz]

Have the 'reports' reached double figures yet? It's irrelevant.

I don’t know, but it doesn’t stop it being a confusing naming convention to those who are not in the gaming loop.

But I wouldn’t expect anyone in the gaming loop to understand that PoV.

 

[cheapchips]

I don’t know, but it doesn’t stop it being a confusing naming convention to those who are not in the gaming loop.

But I wouldn’t expect anyone in the gaming loop to understand that PoV.

If they don't have a more than cursory interested in gaming why would they even be looking to buy one for themselves?

If buying on behalf of kids look at it this way; I'm one of three brothers, raise the 80's on a healthy diet of Star Wars and Transformers. Since becoming a parent I know who all the My Little Ponies are*. That's the way it works outside of gaming loops.

*I know what smell they all have as well.

 

[goonergaz]

If they don't have a more than cursory interested in gaming why would they even be looking to buy one for themselves?

If buying on behalf of kids look at it this way; I'm one of three brothers, raise the 80's on a healthy diet of Star Wars and Transformers. Since becoming a parent I know who all the My Little Ponies are*. That's the way it works outside of gaming loops.

*I know what smell they all have as well.

So who bought all the wrong Xbox consoles then?

People buy things for other people all the time, calling a console Xbox something X those with little interest will just see the Xbox and X. I've been in retail, that's how it works. Now add in the mix of lock-down and you have the scenario where people are buying the wrong console.

 

[eastmen]

So who bought all the wrong Xbox consoles then?

People buy things for other people all the time, calling a console Xbox something X those with little interest will just see the Xbox and X. I've been in retail, that's how it works. Now add in the mix of lock-down and you have the scenario where people are buying the wrong console.

Your first link doesn't actually prove anything except that previous generation console sales were up. However it was also written in sept when all consoles were hard to find because of covid and the new consoles weren't released yet. Also at that point the one x was already discontinued.

Your second link is some rando reddit person who ordered it from another country .

Good try making a case for this being a wide spread issue. People can simply read Xbox one s vs Xbox series s. They are two different names