How to sell next-gen consoles, Marketing, Positioning, and Pricing [2020]

[iroboto]

Well we don’t know about the SSD yet, sure the BC seems to favour XSX but what about next gen games? As an example the Spider-Man loading speeds are insane.


I’m aware, I was really just being a bit cheeky as to his why DF were impressed with the 1800p performance. Granted 16x AF is nice (although DF didn’t seem too bothered) and we know AutoHDR brings little to the party, in fact I think ai recall they preferred the PS5 implementation in AC but I may be mistaken?

I think they preferred it on.
And considering how many titles shipped with poor AF, moving to 16x has a dramatic upgrade over the quick blurriness that lower AF levels bring. I think more people are willing to trade off some pixel sharpness to gain a dramatic amount of texture resolution.

I would say both are great. I think given how poor their communications were, the result is dramatically better. But if they had communicated this would be the case anyway, then I don’t think people would have set such a low bar for them.

 

[London Geezer]

I think they preferred it on.
And considering how many titles shipped with poor AF, moving to 16x has a dramatic upgrade over the quick blurriness that lower AF levels bring. I think more people are willing to trade off some pixel sharpness to gain a dramatic amount of texture resolution.

I would say both are great. I think given how poor their communications were, the result is dramatically better. But if they had communicated this would be the case anyway, then I don’t think people would have set such a low bar for them.

I agree.

AF had its 5 minutes of fame when PS4 couldn’t get its head round how to enable it, but considering how much it adds to the final image it’s crazy how forgotten a feature it is.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

I was watching the DF ps5 bc video and found it odd that they were happy and impressed with 1800p checkerboard vs native. I'm like its great the games running so well but why isn't it running natively with the power the console has ?

Because backward's compatibility cannot retrospectively change the engine from checkerboard to native.

How would that even work?

 

[PSman1700]

I would say both are great.

Absolutely, didn't expect much of PS5 BC, and while not as good as XSX BC, its probably good enough for most people. The biggest improvement will always be framerates.... Watching that DF video yesterday and seeing 30 and 60fps side by side.... As a pc gamer this is even more of an important thing. I really like GoT but the 30fps is just awfull for me.
In about one week il have the ability to play it in 60fps.

Also going forward for non-BC titles, every game seems to have a 60fps performance mode option (though with lower settings). The PS2 had more 60fps titles (even graphically intensive ones) then PS3 and 4, so this was a much welcomed upgrade. Its time for console users to move on from 30fps, or atleast, they have to atlernative to do so.

 

[iroboto]

Because backward's compatibility cannot retrospectively change the engine from checkerboard to native.

How would that even work?

that would be some next level stuff if they could do that.

They have been able to get away with 4X resolution. I wonder if they can do ML upscale or AA. But ultimately, it's just going to end up being a change in the existing pipeline, I'm very doubtful they can add much.

 

[eastmen]

Because backward's compatibility cannot retrospectively change the engine from checkerboard to native.

How would that even work?

and so in the end dynamic native is always better than the other solutions

 

[Deleted member 11852]

They have been able to get away with 4X resolution. I wonder if they can do ML upscale or AA. But ultimately, it's just going to end up being a change in the existing pipeline, I'm very doubtful they can add much.

If Microsoft or AMD had an answer you would see it for those odd games like Just Cause 3 that run at sub-1080p resolutions.

and so in the end dynamic native is always better than the other solutions

It's a shame there were not more dynamic frame-rate/resolution engines driven games this generation. But, in the round, there are only a few games where the 30 frame lock or sub-1080p resolution is that much of a problem.

DF looked at Just Cause 3, but what about Just Cause 4? Did that use a better engine?

 

[Deleted member 7537]

Looking at the Amazon best sellers for 2020, doesn't look like a close fight. MS is loosing even in the US.

- Amazon US: PS5 #48 SX #55
- Amazon UK: PS5 #13 SX #65
- Amazon DE: PS5 #18 SX - Not in the list
- Amazon FR: PS5 #80 SX - Not in the list

 

[VitaminB6]

Looking at the Amazon best sellers for 2020, doesn't look like a close fight. MS is loosing even in the US.

- Amazon US: PS5 #48 SX #55
- Amazon UK: PS5 #13 SX #65
- Amazon DE: PS5 #18 SX - Not in the list
- Amazon FR: PS5 #80 SX - Not in the list

Although I'm guessing PS5 will definitively outsell XBSX I don't really think this is meaningful info. Both companies are selling consoles faster than they can make them. Probably just means that Sony allocated more units for pre-order and less for stores than XBSX.

 

[Deleted member 7537]

Although I'm guessing PS5 will definitively outsell XBSX I don't really think this is meaningful info. Both companies are selling consoles faster than they can make them. Probably just means that Sony allocated more units for pre-order and less for stores than XBSX.

mmm... weird, I was told here PS5 yields were very bad.

 

[chris1515]

A guy from Vandal.net gave the number of consoles for launch day in Spain 40000 to 50000 PS5 and 4000 Xbox Series X and S. Like everywhere in Europe Xbox Series X is sold out but easy to find an Xbox Series S.

 

[London Geezer]

Although I'm guessing PS5 will definitively outsell XBSX I don't really think this is meaningful info. Both companies are selling consoles faster than they can make them. Probably just means that Sony allocated more units for pre-order and less for stores than XBSX.

Sales figures in the pre-order stage, or even the first year, are meaningless because they are supply limited. Which means you can’t know demand. Besides, MS doesn’t even report their sales numbers so who cares.

 

[iroboto]

mmm... weird, I was told here PS5 yields were very bad.

Edit for clarification:
we were discussing rumours on Ps5 soc yields being bad. But that can be overcome by making more of them. It’s just going to increase the price. And the yield can also be improved; by having less aggressive clocking.

We discussed the factors that facilitated poor yield on soc. That doesn’t mean there’s no way around it.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

No one said ps5 yields were bad. Ps5 soc yields could be bad. But that can be overcome by making more of them.

Come on dude, when someone twice asserted rumours that yields were bad what did you think they were talking about? That Sony had run out of 4K Blu-ray drives or plastic cases? Let's move on.. issues do happen but as you said, they are often solutions.

 

[iroboto]

Come on dude, when someone twice asserted rumours that yields were bad what did you think they were talking about? That Sony had run out of 4K Blu-ray drives or plastic cases? Let's move on.. issues do happen but as you said, they are often solutions.

Lol yes. Sorry you are right. We did refer to soc yields. But yes there are solutions for it that don’t affect how many you will sell

 

[thicc_gaf]

While that is true, its the same for the SSD advantage, nowhere near as hyped (on forums). I think that in hardware they are close enough, one has a more capable gpu the other SSD/IO.
Anyway, if anything, like DF said in their PS5 review, Sony delivers more in next gen compared to MS atleast. Their (launch) games are more graphically intensive (even if its cross gen), and the coming lineup offers many more next gen games for 2021. Also the UI was found to be more next gen, same goes for the controller.

So yes i think this 9th gen is the least impressive graphically as a leap, but Sony is trying atleast. Though im sure MS will launch next gen games too, just later.

Only thing I disagree with here is the idea MS's 2021 lineup won't have a lot of "next-gen" oomph to it. Yeah, outside of Halo Infinite and FS2020 (FS2021? ) MS's 1P lineup for 2021 is still up in the air. But 3P look to be really primed up well. Scorn, Bright Memory Infinite, The Medium, Exo-Mecha, The Ascent, The Gunk...those are six excellent-looking games right there and a few are visual showcases for next-gen IMHO going off earlier footage shown. I'm sure there's other games coming too that I may not know of or aren't thinking of at the moment.

3P console exclusives for PS5 into 2021 is a bit more murky to my knowledge, but we have a decent idea of the 1P situation there. Ratchet & Clank and Forbidden West are shoe-ins; Ragnarok...I'm actually curious if it'll hit in 2021 or slip into early 2022. GT7 is probably a shoe-in for 2021 though, probably a Fall 2021 release particularly if Ragnarok gets pushed into 2022. And there's also Death Loop, though that'll be a timed exclusive, just not sure if it's a 6-month timed exclusive (like Godfall) or a 1-year timed exclusive; that and the timing could affect when it comes to Xbox. FWIW similar can be said for The Medium and Bright Memory Infinite; those are timed exclusives for periods not disclosed and Medium's already been confirmed for PS5 as well.

Overall though I actually think the consoles'll be a lot closer in overall "next-gen" output for 2021; it's 2022 and onward where things get very crazy, especially on the 1P front. Especially in MS's case, since we know more of their 2022+ 1P lineup (at least in knowing the games exist) compared to Sony and there's still a lot of games they haven't revealed yet (or can't, in the case of Zenimax/Bethesda offerings).

Other things tho, like the controller/OS "style" etc? Yeah I have to agree Sony have the heads-up there. I'm really impressed with the slickness of the OS, not even just the fact it's "new" (well, it's built off PS4's obviously, but with new features not present there. Microsoft has new features but they also retroactively ported those new features to the XBO/One X OS as well, ahead of the Series system launches so that ironically doesn't make them as "new", at least in feeling I guess?). Honestly though I don't think neither of these are make-or-break factors, however. Nice/very pleasant good-to-haves, but it's not like you're getting a 3rd-rate experience on one system or the other if it has or lacks some of these tertiary features.

One thing I'll say is, I'm pretty curious now what Nintendo will do for the inevitable Switch 2 and its controller features.

 

[cheapchips]

Gran Tourismo 7 in the first half of next year will be great for Sony, assuming no delay. It's a healthy multi million seller.

 

[chris1515]

While that is true, its the same for the SSD advantage, nowhere near as hyped (on forums). I think that in hardware they are close enough, one has a more capable gpu the other SSD/IO.
Anyway, if anything, like DF said in their PS5 review, Sony delivers more in next gen compared to MS atleast. Their (launch) games are more graphically intensive (even if its cross gen), and the coming lineup offers many more next gen games for 2021. Also the UI was found to be more next gen, same goes for the controller.

So yes i think this 9th gen is the least impressive graphically as a leap, but Sony is trying atleast. Though im sure MS will launch next gen games too, just later.

RDR2 load at 40 MB/s on PS5 and XSX, the problem is elsewhere.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1308235775058653185

Wait optimized game and judge after at launch this is not so important PS5 does not have quick resume functionnality for the moment.

EDIT:

NXgamer told PS5 SSD doesn't give advantage in BC mode compared to PS4 and a SSD for loading.

Like a good PCIE 3 PC SSD on Watchdog Legions not much faster than a SATA SSD and slow compared to optimized games on PS5 or XSX, the PS5 SSD is not faster than a SATA SSD on BC games and the same for some XSX game.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Like a good PCIE 3 PC SSD on Watchdog Legions not much faster than a SATA SSD and slow compared to optimized games on PS5 or XSX, the PS5 SSD is not faster than a SATA SSD on BC games and the same for some XSX game.

What I was waiting for, and never saw, was a comparison of PS4 game load speeds between external HDD and SSD. It's academic now as I ready bought a 4Tb SSD.

 

[PSman1700]

Where in the quoted post did i judge any SSD based on BC games? Like i wrote elsewhere, we will see soon enough which one loads faster in non-BC games. Some days left, its not worth it to 'judge' anymore now when real comparisons are going to be put into our faces in some days.
Like in my post you quoted, i assume the PS5 will have the more capable IO/SSD, and thus load faster.

What i ment with my post was that the difference between the two isnt going to be worlds apart, one is going to load abit faster (PS5), while the other will maintain a somewhat higher resolution or settings (XSX).
I think theres other things to look at when deciding a new console.