How to sell next-gen consoles, Marketing, Positioning, and Pricing [2020]

[Jay]

I do find it interesting that overall in reviews so far XB is getting called out for not having games while the PS5 gets a pass on this. It's an old narrative that was mostly true in the past but this time around neither console has much to offer, so I don't really get it.

It's not necessarily only about having next gen exclusives. (general comment not aimed at you)
Example :

1. 8 hour DLC that looks impressive and it's something that's new on the horizon to play.
2. Remake that actually does look impressive and that was highly sort after.
3. Rachet that at least people can tell how it's using the hardware.

Doesn't take a lot of games to give that warm fuzzy feeling. At the best of times it's not like you get dozens of 1P games a year, although the amount could change significantly on the xbox side.

Yeah, Microsoft should acquire even more studios.

haha, new studios is nice but not really required.

Xbox will have games, but it's the same mantra that has been said for a couple years, "need to wait"
That's why I think they could have done some DLC's etc.

 

[eastmen]

I do find it interesting that overall in reviews so far XB is getting called out for not having games while the PS5 gets a pass on this. It's an old narrative that was mostly true in the past but this time around neither console has much to offer, so I don't really get it.

its the same with anything , there are more ps4 owners and more sony fans and thus they create an echo chamber to whats good.

I was watching the DF ps5 bc video and found it odd that they were happy and impressed with 1800p checkerboard vs native. I'm like its great the games running so well but why isn't it running natively with the power the console has ?

 

[eastmen]

It's not necessarily only about having next gen exclusives. (general comment not aimed at you)
Example :

1. 8 hour DLC that looks impressive and it's something that's new on the horizon to play.
2. Remake that actually does look impressive and that was highly sort after.
3. Rachet that at least people can tell how it's using the hardware.

Doesn't take a lot of games to give that warm fuzzy feeling. At the best of times it's not like you get dozens of 1P games a year, although the amount could change significantly on the xbox side.
haha, new studios is nice but not really required.

Xbox will have games, but it's the same mantra that has been said for a couple years, "need to wait"
That's why I think they could have done some DLC's etc.

1) but you can play it on the ps4
2) you can play it on the ps4
3) Its why i listed it

Like I said previously there are things like gears 5 or forza that are greatly enhanced for xss/x and are dismissed because its on the xbox one platform while it seems spiderman gets a pass

 

[thicc_gaf]

I do find it interesting that overall in reviews so far XB is getting called out for not having games while the PS5 gets a pass on this. It's an old narrative that was mostly true in the past but this time around neither console has much to offer, so I don't really get it.

Eh, I'll play devil's advocate here. The media's definitely been either slow or seemingly unable to hold Sony to a similar standard of relying on cross-gen when MS was getting attacked for that over the summer. And a lot of PS5's 1P offerings at launch are either remakes or cross-gen titles (either cross-gen at launch, or pretty much guaranteed coming to PS4 sometime soon a la Demon's Souls). Some of the other games like Godfall are (shorter-than-expected, at least for me) timed exclusives.

That said tho, I think it's hard not to be impressed with what Sony have on deck in the 1P slate at launch. It's actually the first launch from them on the 1P front where they're actually pretty strong, games being cross-gen or remakes aside. And coincidentally, launch lineups seem to matter so much more than they did in the past (even though Nintendo's historically had the most consistency in strong launches; Dreamcast's American launch was also really strong).

I guess the question is if it's sustainable in a few years from now. Nothing's set in stone and things can change; actually I don't think that in itself is the question. The question should probably moreso be, will their 1P be able to sustain itself in relation to MS, Nintendo, and any surprises from Amazon, Google etc. a few years from now? It's easy to assume it will, but tastes can change over time among the mainstream, and this time around MS won't be (comparatively) lax or asleep at the wheel. Nintendo'll probably keep pushing forward, themselves, considering how well the Switch is doing, and then there are the wildcards in Google and Amazon. Google in particular might look like laughingstocks ATM, but that could quickly change. Sony weren't really much of note working on the SEGA CD for example, but they started changing that around within a year or so of PS1 entering the market.

If there's a will, there's a way

 

[Jay]

1) but you can play it on the ps4
2) you can play it on the ps4
3) Its why i listed it

Like I said previously there are things like gears 5 or forza that are greatly enhanced for xss/x and are dismissed because its on the xbox one platform while it seems spiderman gets a pass

1. Spiderman MM looks impressive and it's a new game, not one that had been played and beaten
2. It's impressing people and highly wanted. The original may have been played, but this hasn't yet. People are looking forward to it.
3. I listed it to round of my point.

People have played and finished gears and horizon.
They haven't Spiderman MM hence the buzz.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Like i said when halo launches early next year and MS's first party stuff starts launching in a good cadence people will forget about what was available at launch

That's because Xbox doesn't have Knack. Nobody can forget Knack. Even though we've tried.

 

[eastmen]

That's because Xbox doesn't have Knack. Nobody can forget Knack. Even though we've tried.

They got Kameo which is the original knack

 

[eastmen]

Eh, I'll play devil's advocate here. The media's definitely been either slow or seemingly unable to hold Sony to a similar standard of relying on cross-gen when MS was getting attacked for that over the summer. And a lot of PS5's 1P offerings at launch are either remakes or cross-gen titles (either cross-gen at launch, or pretty much guaranteed coming to PS4 sometime soon a la Demon's Souls). Some of the other games like Godfall are (shorter-than-expected, at least for me) timed exclusives.

That said tho, I think it's hard not to be impressed with what Sony have on deck in the 1P slate at launch. It's actually the first launch from them on the 1P front where they're actually pretty strong, games being cross-gen or remakes aside. And coincidentally, launch lineups seem to matter so much more than they did in the past (even though Nintendo's historically had the most consistency in strong launches; Dreamcast's American launch was also really strong).

I guess the question is if it's sustainable in a few years from now. Nothing's set in stone and things can change; actually I don't think that in itself is the question. The question should probably moreso be, will their 1P be able to sustain itself in relation to MS, Nintendo, and any surprises from Amazon, Google etc. a few years from now? It's easy to assume it will, but tastes can change over time among the mainstream, and this time around MS won't be (comparatively) lax or asleep at the wheel. Nintendo'll probably keep pushing forward, themselves, considering how well the Switch is doing, and then there are the wildcards in Google and Amazon. Google in particular might look like laughingstocks ATM, but that could quickly change. Sony weren't really much of note working on the SEGA CD for example, but they started changing that around within a year or so of PS1 entering the market.

If there's a will, there's a way

I think sony was two faced in the original announcement of spiderman mm and it formed a narrative that never lost steam

 

[thicc_gaf]

I think sony was two faced in the original announcement of spiderman mm and it formed a narrative that never lost steam

Well there's no doubt on that front; Sony did play off the backlash MS got from games media in support of cross-gen. I think that backlash is why, outside of Halo Infinite, there aren't a lot of other 1P games from MS going cross-gen anymore. Even stuff like Everwild have seemingly dropped XBO.

And, I think Sony also played off some of the animosity that was generating around MS's cross-gen support after the Halo Infinite showing, I think even Jim Ryan said something about last-gen holding next-gen back...only it turns out 70% of Sony's 1P stuff is cross-gen and they have long-term plans to support PS4 with 1P content until at least 2022, themselves. And no criticism from media on that anymore, oddly enough.

That all said, I still think their 1P lineup this time around is pretty strong, caveats aside. Sony lucked out a decent bit on that front. I'm still curious about long-term 1P sustainment on their end though in relation to even Nintendo, but particularly Microsoft, and then the wildcards in Google and Amazon. Sony will have to play a lot smarter on this note going forward and they've already said in the past they'd focus on less 1P games but increasing the scope/budget of slimmed-down selections.

They can't compete with MS/Google/Amazon etc. in buying up Zenimax-tier publishers or developers therein, so it'll be interesting to see how they adapt. The rate MS is going they can guarantee a AAA game every quarter within a year or two, that's going to make things really difficult for companies like Sony to keep up with. And I don't know how much timed exclusivity deals with 3P will help out given even for stuff like Godfall, it's only like six months. I don't think that's enough a time gap to get people to buy into the ecosystem, and a game like Godfall doesn't have the brand name to pull similar effect, either, unless you maybe pair it with Demon's Souls and sell it towards that type of audience.

Huge AAA timed exclusives? Well I think if not now, then eventually, MS/Amazon/Google, even Apple...they'll start throwing in bids for those too, and once again they have financial capital Sony doesn't. So it's going to be very interesting to see how Sony adjusts, once again.

1. Spiderman MM looks impressive and it's a new game, not one that had been played and beaten
2. It's impressing people and highly wanted. The original may have been played, but this hasn't yet. People are looking forward to it.
3. I listed it to round of my point.

People have played and finished gears and horizon.
They haven't Spiderman MM hence the buzz.

To be fair, Gears 5 is getting some new story DLC, and a Batista (!!) mod for Marcus. Then again...Spiderman is Spiderman, and kind of in a league of his own when it comes to fandom. So I understand the hype there 100%

Hopefully the Miles stuff and Gears story stuff are solid and satisfy their fans, that's ultimately what's most important.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Well there's no doubt on that front; Sony did play off the backlash MS got from games media in support of cross-gen. I think that backlash is why, outside of Halo Infinite, there aren't a lot of other 1P games from MS going cross-gen anymore. Even stuff like Everwild have seemingly dropped XBO.

Sony got off lightly, a few days irritation then everybody moved on. But shitty comms it what I mostly expect from Sony this launch. It's just been bad.

 

[Jay]

To be fair, Gears 5 is getting some new story DLC, and a Batista (!!) mod for Marcus. Then again...Spiderman is Spiderman, and kind of in a league of his own when it comes to fandom. So I understand the hype there 100%

Which I've said multiple times is good and I think they could've done more of those types of things, hopefully the target development platform is XSX.

But we've also not seen it, hence people aren't going to buzz the way they are the PS5 games that they have seen something about.

 

[thicc_gaf]

Which I've said multiple times is good and I think they could've done more of those types of things, hopefully the target development platform is XSX.

But we've also not seen it, hence people aren't going to buzz the way they are the PS5 games that they have seen something about.

Yeah, hopefully that will change soon. I have personally been impressed with some stuff so far though like Scorn; there's part in that gameplay which I thought were RT but it just comes down to really good art direction, and butter-smooth 60 FPS is always nice. Plus I'm a sucker for the Giger aesthetic.

I don't think it can be denied Sony have done a really great job positioning their PS5 launch lineup, though. MS should've had something else to fall back on of big substance aside from Halo Infinite, in case that got delayed (which it did). Stuff like Watch Dogs actually looks great to me, but it's on a myriad of other systems too including PS5. Meanwhile, at least at launch something like Demon's Souls is only on PS5, so even if it's coming to PC later, Sony are playing around with saying when exactly, same goes with any possible PS4 version even if hints exist it's coming.

Leveraging an IP as big as Spiderman right out of the gate, again, that's a really smart decision. And getting the UE5 demo running first (and so far, only) on their system was a great move, too. For as much as I think Sony can stand to learn from MS on some aspects of handling messaging, transparency and the such, I think MS could stand to learn from Sony when it comes to balancing out the dev pipeline to ensure a good stable of 1P content at launch, and general marketing getting the hardcore/core hyped (the Power Your Dreams TV spot was really great, though. I hope to see more in that vain from MS going forward).

Sony got off lightly, a few days irritation then everybody moved on. But shitty comms it what I mostly expect from Sony this launch. It's just been bad.

Their garbled communications timing since Sept. 16th has been...pretty bad, indeed. When it comes to media reporting tho, I wish the media would treat the two a bit more evenly. At the very least, some of them should've rescinded their earlier almost clickbait-tier "concern" over cross-gen support from MS and their strategy therein, because some spots dialed the dumb rhetoric up to 11.

 

[Deleted member 11852]

Their garbled communications timing since Sept. 16th has been...pretty bad, indeed. When it comes to media reporting tho, I wish the media would treat the two a bit more evenly. At the very least, some of them should've rescinded their earlier almost clickbait-tier "concern" over cross-gen support from MS and their strategy therein, because some spots dialed the dumb rhetoric up to 11.

I must have missed this. I think Sony has demonstrated a greater willingness to cut lose PS4/Pro owners with Ratchet & Clank and Demon Souls being PS5-only. I have no qualms about new games running on PS4/XBO as long as that does not compromise the visions of the game. Plenty of games released after next week will run well on PS4/XBO, even massive open world games like AC Valhalla. It would have been an easy decision to task Blue Point to develop a Demon Souls remaster that had to run on PS4 but they didn't.

 

[Rangers]

1) but you can play it on the ps4
2) you can play it on the ps4
3) Its why i listed it

Like I said previously there are things like gears 5 or forza that are greatly enhanced for xss/x and are dismissed because its on the xbox one platform while it seems spiderman gets a pass

Well, too be fair Gears isn't offering new content like Morales is. Maybe when that DLC comes?

I do agree in general the idea that PS5 has something next gen to offer and Xbox doesn't slightly overrated. Not that Xbox isn't lacking in next gen experiences at launch, it definitely is, I just dont think Ps5 is really all that much better off. Ratchet and DS and Miles look good graphically, but I really don't think they're offering anything truly mind blowing compared to just current gen titles. Also Ratchet is "launch window", right? If I was into the PS ecosystem I think truth be told I'd be fairly disappointed with their launch offerings as well.

At the end of the day Xbox is missing Halo Infinite, that's the big problem. And then the Cyberpunk delay compounded the issue. I know Cyberpunk isn't next gen per se, but it kinda felt like it, and was what I was planning to dive into on the 19th. Those into Watch Dogs and AC are better off here, but I'm not into those.

It goes back to poor MS management IMO, they should have had Halo Infinite planned as a 30 FPS campaign visual showpiece for XSX only, started years ago with hundreds of developers. Well, I can dream anyway. I'm sure the fiscals dont support next gen only as even Sony has mostly found out.

I wish at least there were some smaller/indie style XSX only game to show it off. Falconeer exists I guess, but again it's not mind blowing.

 

[AzBat]

I wish at least there were some smaller/indie style XSX only game to show it off. Falconeer exists I guess, but again it's not mind blowing.

There is: Observer: System Redux by Bloober Team. It's a Series X|S only title. It's basically the original remastered. Currently it's on sale until launch for $26.99.

EDIT:

Tommy McClain

 

[turkey]

its the same with anything , there are more ps4 owners and more sony fans and thus they create an echo chamber to whats good.

I was watching the DF ps5 bc video and found it odd that they were happy and impressed with 1800p checkerboard vs native. I'm like its great the games running so well but why isn't it running natively with the power the console has ?

They did detail this, the original pro release was 1800p checkerboard without dynamic resolution, the PS5 is still locked to how it was originally released, it can only may a dynamic element unless it gets a patch.

This is more a rehsash on how much harder some X versions were pushed (offen at the detriment of frame rate)

 

[goonergaz]

its the same with anything , there are more ps4 owners and more sony fans and thus they create an echo chamber to whats good.

I was watching the DF ps5 bc video and found it odd that they were happy and impressed with 1800p checkerboard vs native. I'm like its great the games running so well but why isn't it running natively with the power the console has ?

Why so salty? XSX is all so powerful yet Just Cause 3 on PS5 is significantly better than XSX - go figure.

At least Sony are bringing something new to the table, no matter how small or much you want to dismiss or it. Even the amazing ‘advantage’ XSX supposedly has in BC is nowhere near as big as expected.

 

[PSman1700]

Even the amazing ‘advantage’ XSX supposedly has in BC is nowhere near as big as expected.

While that is true, its the same for the SSD advantage, nowhere near as hyped (on forums). I think that in hardware they are close enough, one has a more capable gpu the other SSD/IO.
Anyway, if anything, like DF said in their PS5 review, Sony delivers more in next gen compared to MS atleast. Their (launch) games are more graphically intensive (even if its cross gen), and the coming lineup offers many more next gen games for 2021. Also the UI was found to be more next gen, same goes for the controller.

So yes i think this 9th gen is the least impressive graphically as a leap, but Sony is trying atleast. Though im sure MS will launch next gen games too, just later.

 

[BRiT]

Why so salty? XSX is all so powerful yet Just Cause 3 on PS5 is significantly better than XSX - go figure.

Only because the settings from 2015 for PS4 were slightly better than settings on Xbox One. Yet PS5 runs it without 16x AF and without option for AutoHDR.

 

[goonergaz]

While that is true, its the same for the SSD advantage, nowhere near as hyped (on forums). I think that in hardware they are close enough, one has a more capable gpu the other SSD/IO.
Anyway, if anything, like DF said in their PS5 review, Sony delivers more in next gen compared to MS atleast. Their (launch) games are more graphically intensive (even if its cross gen), and the coming lineup offers many more next gen games for 2021. Also the UI was found to be more next gen, same goes for the controller.

So yes i think this 9th gen is the least impressive graphically as a leap, but Sony is trying atleast. Though im sure MS will launch next gen games too, just later.

Well we don’t know about the SSD yet, sure the BC seems to favour XSX but what about next gen games? As an example the Spider-Man loading speeds are insane.

Only because the settings from 2015 for PS4 were slightly better than settings on Xbox One. Yet PS5 runs it without 16x AF and without option for AutoHDR.

I’m aware, I was really just being a bit cheeky as to his why DF were impressed with the 1800p performance. Granted 16x AF is nice (although DF didn’t seem too bothered) and we know AutoHDR brings little to the party, in fact I think ai recall they preferred the PS5 implementation in AC but I may be mistaken?