How much work is it to provide choice for both R1 and .R2 for shooting on PS3.

[Arwin]

A trigger is only a trigger because mechincally the digit needs leverage. The actually input requirement is digital - shoot or don't shoot.

Actually maybe not 100% true. Simulating different kinds of trigger action, determining whether or not you want the trigger to fire at 10% depression or at 90% depression. And that does help to some extent if you'd want to simulate the trigger action of a variety of guns a little more - you could put an automatic gun at 10% and an old six shooter at 90% for instance (I have no idea if there are already games that do this).

And that the digit needs mechanical leverage, well, maybe the 360's controller versions of 'R1' and 'L1' prove it by not working very well (my L button barely works at all), but the difference between those and the triggers below them couldn't be bigger!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

And that the digit needs mechanical leverage, well, maybe the 360's controller versions of 'R1' and 'L1' prove it by not working very well (my L button barely works at all), but the difference between those and the triggers below them couldn't be bigger!

I mean real-world gun triggers. They are operating a mechnical firing pin, and the digit needs stength to do that. You could replace a trigger with an electronic firing mechanism and a button these days, although having a strong is a good safety measure! But to fire a gun, a degree of travel isn't a requirement, so it needn't be for a game interface.

As for simulating different guns, I dunno about that. The end result would either be a perceptible amount of lag, the old six-shooter firing later, which I imagine is annoying and could be simulated by adding a moment of lag in game, or you just plain won't notice in the game.

If there were force-feedback triggers I would agree to their use, but we don't have that on dual-stick controllers and probably never will. Ergonomically I'd be includined to place shoot always on the top shoulder button.

 

[Arwin]

I mean real-world gun triggers. They are operating a mechnical firing pin, and the digit needs stength to do that. You could replace a trigger with an electronic firing mechanism and a button these days, although having a strong is a good safety measure! But to fire a gun, a degree of travel isn't a requirement, so it needn't be for a game interface.

As for simulating different guns, I dunno about that. The end result would either be a perceptible amount of lag, the old six-shooter firing later, which I imagine is annoying and could be simulated by adding a moment of lag in game, or you just plain won't notice in the game.

Yes, but that's still fun imho, as that's just how an old six-shooter works - your pressing of the trigger turns the chamber, pulls the pin back, and only once you reach the point where the pin is released again do you fire your gun. So sure, you could just add lag, but this would make it more 'physical'. You can't endlessly shoot a six-shooter anyway!

And the opposite is also nice - a gun that's so sensitive that you could accidentally fire it really easily. Could be fun in certain tense stealth situations, to the point where maybe triggering vibration in your controller could cause you to fire if you're not careful.

Ergonomically I'd be includined to place shoot always on the top shoulder button.

Yeah, I generally think so too for the PS3. But not on the 360! Those buttons plain suck.

Of course with the Move controller it gets simpler, because there we have basically just one real trigger button on the rear.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Yeah, I generally think so too for the PS3. But not on the 360! Those buttons plain suck.

Which IMO is poor placement of the buttons. Or rather, the controller just isn't ideal for trigger mechanics in the specific and niche realm of simulating gun types. If you really want the sort of realism you're describing, a conventional controller is the wrong way to go, and we want a convincing gun-type controller (Move looks well designed in that respect). For a multipurpose controller, using any digital-type button is okay for shooting. The triggers are better for controlled analogue input, specifically throttle.

That's why having it assignable in the XMB makes sense, as the nature of the button isn't an issue. The lack of travel on R1 isn't going to affect the gameplay, unless someone does make a shooter where you want to be able to prime the gun with the trigger half-way pulled and the risk of accidentally firing!

 

[Arwin]

That's why having it assignable in the XMB makes sense, as the nature of the button isn't an issue. The lack of travel on R1 isn't going to affect the gameplay, unless someone does make a shooter where you want to be able to prime the gun with the trigger half-way pulled and the risk of accidentally firing!

Well, I agree, at least because, as I mentioned before, all buttons on the PS3 can be accessed in both digital and analog mode, so even if a game depends on analog input to some extent, even the x button or d-pad left can provide an analog input!

This is not the case on the 360 controller though as far as I know.

 

[NavNucST3]

Well, I agree, at least because, as I mentioned before, all buttons on the PS3 can be accessed in both digital and analog mode, so even if a game depends on analog input to some extent, even the x button or d-pad left can provide an analog input!

This is not the case on the 360 controller though as far as I know.

Arwin...there is not a single-time when you have mentioned the PS3 controller where you HAVEN'T mentioned analog buttons

 

[Rolf N]

Yeah, I generally think so too for the PS3. But not on the 360! Those buttons plain suck.

Of course with the Move controller it gets simpler, because there we have basically just one real trigger button on the rear.

I didn't want to say, but as you've broken the ice: a lot of these complaints are caused by an Xbox 360 perspective. Some people want to shoot with the "triggers" because they expect the "bumpers" to suck. That is not the case on PS3 controllers though.

Everytime I see these types of threads, all I think is "a trigger button for shooting.... what were they thinking???"

Btw Sony never calls them "triggers", so there's never been a suggestion that these might be great for shooting a gun. That's all imported terminology, too.

 

[obonicus]

Arwin...there is not a single-time when you have mentioned the PS3 controller where you HAVEN'T mentioned analog buttons

Maybe it's so Sony remembers about them too.

 

[ban25]

L1/L2 suck on the PS3, LB/RB suck on the 360.

 

[Iron Tiger]

I just think it's more fun to use triggers for shooting, so I like my shooters to use L2/R2. I happen to be quicker with my middle fingers than my index fingers (even with real and arcade guns), so I can manage some secondary functions with L1/R1 if need be. But were it not for the RealTriggers I have on my DS3, I don't think I could stand to play ANY PS3 games.

BTW, I've hated the 360's shoulder layout ever since I tried it at IGN Live a few months before the system launched. It just seems like one of the least ergonomic arrangements since the Gamecube's Z button.

 

[Tap In]

When we focus tested we actually found an interesting regional disparity, Americans regardless of previous platform, *always (>90%) used their index finger(s) and only their index finger(s)for non-face/vertical buttons...the rest of the world seemed perfectly happy using both index and middle.

yes, that would be me :smile:

 

[Dungeonscaper]

They're crappy for shooting, but I think it feels nice and beefy reloading and knifing in UC2/ BC2 and r1/l1 are definitely better for twitch gamers like me =]