How much work is it to provide choice for both R1 and .R2 for shooting on PS3.

[KongRudi]

I can't 'convert' to R2, even tough I've seen it gets more and more popular after 360 came around. :-/
A game like Red Dead Redemption forinstance, seems like a fun game, wich I would love to play, but every other game I've tried with only R2-shooting, have been quickly shelved, because I keep seeing that I'm trying to shoot with the middle finger, instead of beeing able to adapt. :-/

This time, I were lucky enough to get to know about this R2-feature, before I wasted the money on the game.
How much extra testing/work is it for developers to also provide a alternative control-scheme?

Could Sony in theory perhaps have controller settings in XMB, wich gave us opportunity to allways invert R1 and R2, to provide a better experience for us who prefer to use R1 for shooting, whenever the game-devs dosn't give us the opportunity - or are the pressure settings on those buttons to different for that to become a reality?

I would assume possibility to also invert analogue stick-functions also would be usefull, since sometimes games dosn't come with that feature, wich I assume some people use. :-/

What do you guys think?

 

[obonicus]

A more general question is how expensive is it to offer alternate controls/remappable controls, for both systems.

 

[Alkohallick]

I'm waiting to hear some opinions on this one too. I cant imagine it being that much extra work/money to implement.

 

[corduroygt]

They should offer remappable controls in the os so that we don't have to rely on developers.

 

[Arwin]

On a basic level it should be extremely cheap for a developer to implement this. But it could definitely be a good idea for Sony to add customisation options for this in XMB.

It is even more cheap on the PS3, because you can configure the R1 button to be analog or digital, just like the R2 button, unlike on the 360.

I think that there may be two main reasons why developers don't do it:
- there still goes some effort into designing a user interface that allows users to change this (although there are plenty of games that they should be able to copy them from if they want to), and if you have on-screen hints, you may have to make a tiny bit of effort to make that dynamic depending on controller settings (though I personally would get angry at any developer who doesn't make that kind of thing dynamic by default), and it requires additional testing.
- since there are some controller preferences for shooters in the 360's dashboard, developers may just decide that's the way to deal with it on the 360 and not a custom way to do it, which makes adding this to the PS3 version more work for multi-platform titles compared to having to do it anyway on both platforms

 

[obonicus]

They should offer remappable controls in the os so that we don't have to rely on developers.

The 360 has the beginnings of this system, but with the 360 there's no trigger/bumper ambiguity.

 

[Rolf N]

If you hook a PS3 controller up to a PC and look at the raw data it gives you, all buttons are analog and give values in the same range. With R2 it's just easier for your fingers to control the pressure accurately.

For games it should be a trivial switch, reading the data from a different place and interpreting it as before.

 

[flynn]

On a basic level it should be extremely cheap for a developer to implement this. But it could definitely be a good idea for Sony to add customisation options for this in XMB.

I'd be ok to have this implemented at the OS level but definitely want to have per game and per user preferences, so devs can call a sceCustomizeControls() and save the user's choice.

I think that there may be two main reasons why developers don't do it:
- there still goes some effort into designing a user interface that allows users to change this (although there are plenty of games that they should be able to copy them from if they want to), and if you have on-screen hints, you may have to make a tiny bit of effort to make that dynamic depending on controller settings (though I personally would get angry at any developer who doesn't make that kind of thing dynamic by default), and it requires additional testing.

Custom controls have been there since I was playing games on my ZX Spectrum. It's trivial to implement compared to the rest of the engine. Surely it requires testing but that's what QA is there for.

 

[Cornsnake]

It's really annoying if you want to switch between different shooting games with different control layouts. I've been hitting R1 to shoot all day playing RDR, and of course if I do get used to this, I'll be switching weapons when I get back to playing MAG.

Having some way to alter the controls in the XMB would be nice. The are still to many games out there with limited options to change the controls.

 

[oramay]

I'd love to see a remap option in XMB. Having said that, the question remains why many shooters force shooting with R2 on PS3? Is it really that costly to let PS3 users shoot with R1?

I have always felt firing with R2 suits neither the PS3 controller nor the way I hold a controller with index finger on L1/R1 and middle finger on L2/R2. In fact, I feel the L1/R1 buttons are the best buttons for firing guns among the shoulder buttons on PS3 & X360 controllers. The other shoulder buttons just feel slow to me or tend to tire my hands sooner. Repeatedly pressing R1/L1 quickly is less difficult and straining in my experience.

Shooting with R2 is a pretty major negative point in my mind.

 

[obonicus]

At this point, since all the buttons are analog, I'm not convinced that we wouldn't have been better off having the Sixaxis/Dualshock 3 have the PS2's L2/R2.

Was the lack of triggers such a big deal for GT4? In most of the (very arcadish) racers I like to play, the accelerator/brake might as well be digital.

 

[Arwin]

At this point, since all the buttons are analog, I'm not convinced that we wouldn't have been better off having the Sixaxis/Dualshock 3 have the PS2's L2/R2.

Was the lack of triggers such a big deal for GT4? In most of the (very arcadish) racers I like to play, the accelerator/brake might as well be digital.

The big point here is that all buttons are indeed analog on the DualShock. This was the case already for almost all of the buttons on the original one for the PS2. So even the x and o buttons were analog in GT3 and GT4, and skilled users definitely used that to great effect, especially with some tail-happy cars.

That said, for GT4 and even more GT5 prologue I personally started preferring to use the analog sticks for brake/gass, although that's mostly because I'm used to a Logitech wheel. Not being able to brake and accellerate at the same time holds back the useful of an analog stick.

This is different from the buttons on the 360's controller, where basically only the trigger buttons are analog, and the rest isn't, so it's not even a consideration, and multi-platform development has not been great for support of the analog modes on the PS3's controller.

 

[Bigduo209]

This is different from the buttons on the 360's controller, where basically only the trigger buttons are analog, and the rest isn't, so it's not even a consideration, and multi-platform development has not been great for support of the analog modes on the PS3's controller.

I think that's only real reason why few PS3 games have those options, if Sony had been more popular with 3rd party devs we wouldn't have this problem.

I'm not hating the 360 or anything, but it's just a 'first come, first served' type of thing. Most (if not all) games, especially down to the control scheme, are designed with the 360 in mind. That has changed for a few developers making the PS3 the lead platform, but most stuff is still designed for the 360 first or both consoles simultaneously.

 

[KongRudi]

OK! - I submitted the idea of controller-configuration - inverting L1/R1 into L2/R2 on XMB, and analog sticks - on the PS-share blog.

I assumed Sony would read this great idea and fix it immediately, new firmware within a few days.
Then I went and ordered Red Dead Redemption, and expected it to be fixed within the days it took in the mail.
However, my idea didn't get registered in the blog.. So I'm struggeling with wrong buttons..

 

[Rolf N]

Dante's Inferno is a major offender here. They put block on L2. God Of War (and even Ninja Gaiden Sigma) have it on L1 of course.

Besides messing up transferrable skills going back and forth between other games and Dante's Inferno, the problem here is that you can't really parry attacks reliably. It's not enough to press L2 at the impact of an attack, you have to press it in such a way that it squeezes just past its halfway point, just at the right time. So even if you got the boss patterns all down and anticipate every attack, you'll still fail half your parries. It's ridiculous.

All the while L1 sits idle with some magic you'll use once every couple hours, if that.
(same as L2 in God Of War, duh)

I can't believe shit like this makes it through play-testing. You need it all the time and be fast with it, and it's an on/off type of thing. Its call for a more digitally styled button is so obvious.

 

[Bigduo209]

OK! - I submitted the idea of controller-configuration - inverting L1/R1 into L2/R2 on XMB, and analog sticks - on the PS-share blog.

I assumed Sony would read this great idea and fix it immediately, new firmware within a few days.
Then I went and ordered Red Dead Redemption, and expected it to be fixed within the days it took in the mail.
However, my idea didn't get registered in the blog.. So I'm struggeling with wrong buttons..

There's a lot of great ideas on the blog, but there's no indication of Sony responding to really any of them, except for Kevin Butler at E3 (if that actually happens).

An example would be Skype on the PS3, and integrating Universal in-game chat through that manner. Spype is on the PSP, but many feel that the PS3 (since it's more likely to be connected online) would've been the smart choice for it instead of a handheld.

 

[Malo]

Everytime I see these types of threads, all I think is "a trigger button for shooting.... what were they thinking???"

 

[Shifty Geezer]

A trigger is only a trigger because mechincally the digit needs leverage. The actually input requirement is digital - shoot or don't shoot. PS2 gamers are used to using their index finger on R1, middle finger on R2, and so it makes sense to have shoot on R1. Games that put shooting on the 'trigger' aren't helping experienced PS generations and there's no real need to inconvenience us that way.

 

[NavNucST3]

A trigger is only a trigger because mechincally the digit needs leverage. The actually input requirement is digital - shoot or don't shoot. PS2 gamers are used to using their index finger on R1, middle finger on R2, and so it makes sense to have shoot on R1. Games that put shooting on the 'trigger' aren't helping experienced PS generations and there's no real need to inconvenience us that way.

When we focus tested we actually found an interesting regional disparity, Americans regardless of previous platform, *always (>90%) used their index finger(s) and only their index finger(s)for non-face/vertical buttons...the rest of the world seemed perfectly happy using both index and middle.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That's bizarre. Although I can probaly go one better as I will sometimes use my index finger to press the triangle button. I think that was GT3, certain;y some game that wanted quick a change from X to Tri, and rather than move the thumb I had the finger on button duty.

I suppose the solution here is introduce prestadigitation training in US school...