How large will Cell be ?

[Vince]

You really aren't one to talk. If you Cell faithfuls can present your dogmatic ideas as absolute fact then certainly the sceptics should be allowed the same privilige.

True, but I've also refrained from making specific comments on the actual numbers behind it. I think I've been steady on the 1TFlop is possible for a few years, I commented on my idea of a simple rasterizer, I was wrong with the PSP/Cell thing, and also pretty damn wrong in saying the NV3x would last alot longer than it did... but I think we were all underwhelmed.

I comment on the buisness aspects and place in the CE/Digital Home alot, but there is alot of outward proof that these are there intentions, which I happen to agree with. But, yes... this I do alot.

What I disagree with (and I see alot of Chapper's so-called Sony fans) doing is publically talking absolute numbers and architectural details as fact and already starting this "transistor based penis contest."

What I also disagree and hate are the unrealistic "realist" opinions which are, in fact, totally negative. Saying Sony can fail is a given, it shouldn't even be brought up. Microsoft can fail, Nintendo can too... shit our hearts can both fail and none of this will mean a damn thing to the two of us. If you're going to discuss this, then by all means be a counter-balancing force - but base this in tangible objections that are on the point - just don't be another member who is incapable of not invoking these biased opinions that are entirely death to Sony. But, if you don't like something I said or think it's too harsh or such, then PM me. I won't bite... well...

 

[Paul]

PS3's version of Cell will top out at a peak of around 256GFLOPS, whlist the GPU aka GS3 or VS X 4,whatever you want to call it; will peak at around 128GFLOPS.

300+ GFLOPS in total, simply stagering computing power we are talking about here.

With Embedded Dram feeding this directly, I would say it wouldn't be imposible to sustain around 200GFLOPS.

PS3 Cell clock speed will top at my guess 2-2.5Ghz with the GPU coming in at around maybe close to a Ghz, MAYBE reaching that Ghz thresh hold.

Don't take 300GFLOPS lightly in a two chip scenario, this is some MASSIVE COMPUTING POWER. And is not something that should be tossed around lightly.

 

[London Geezer]

PS3's version of Cell will top out at a peak of around 256GFLOPS, whlist the GPU aka GS3 or VS X 4,whatever you want to call it; will peak at around 128GFLOPS.

300+ GFLOPS in total, simply stagering computing power we are talking about here.

With Embedded Dram feeding this directly, I would say it wouldn't be imposible to sustain around 200GFLOPS.

PS3 Cell clock speed will top at my guess 2-2.5Ghz with the GPU coming in at around maybe close to a Ghz, MAYBE reaching that Ghz thresh hold.

Don't take 300GFLOPS lightly in a two chip scenario, this is some MASSIVE COMPUTING POWER. And is not something that should be tossed around lightly.

128+256 = 384

more 400 than 300......

still, i really do not see how one can raise his expectations so high, so early... look at what hyper-expectations did to some pre-ps2-fanboys-turned-MS-preachers...

really, IF PS3 CPU comes out at 1B tansistors and 1Tflop ALONE, then i'll be mighty impressed. 99.999999% chance it will NOT.

i, and many others, think those numbers might not even be reched by BOTH the CPU and GPU combined...

do i care? hell no!! give me some next gen ZOE and SH and transistor counts will suddenly seem like geek-talk to me.

 

[DeadmeatGA]

...

I am glad that more people are coming to their senses and realize that is is physically impossible for PSX3 to do a teraflop. Hope that Panajev and Vince also get this somehow.

 

[London Geezer]

Re: ...

I am glad that more people are coming to their senses and realize that is is physically impossible for PSX3 to do a teraflop. Hope that Panajev and Vince also get this somehow.

Deadmeat, we cannot KNOW that it IS physically impossible for PS3 (NOT PSX3 for god's sake) to do 1TFlop.

However we MIGHT think that it will be a VERY hard goal to reach.

See, thats' the difference between being a troll and being conservative or reasonable.

 

[Megadrive1988]

If Sony starts counting flops like Nvidia counts flops ('nvflops') then Cell could easily do several 'sonyTFLOPs'

 

[DeadmeatGA]

...

Deadmeat, we cannot KNOW that it IS physically impossible for PS3 (NOT PSX3 for god's sake) to do 1TFlop.

Surely you do. Unless Kutaragi goes crazy and decided to stick that $2K quadcore CELL server chip inside $399 PSX3.

 

[V3]

Unless Kutaragi goes crazy and decided to stick that $2K quadcore CELL server chip inside $399 PSX3.

Didn't you claimed he is crazy ?

So we might just get two 420 mm2 quadcore Cell server chip inside PS3.

Beside those $2k big server chips, had their price inflated for a fat profit margin.

 

[Panajev2001a]

"I just don't see that Cell is revolutionary, except in its marketing impact," - Peter Glaskowsky - Chief Editor, Microprocessor Report

"Any idea worth a damn is already patented... twice" -Mfa

 

[Panajev2001a]

Re: ...

Deadmeat, we cannot KNOW that it IS physically impossible for PS3 (NOT PSX3 for god's sake) to do 1TFlop.

Surely you do. Unless Kutaragi goes crazy and decided to stick that $2K quadcore CELL server chip inside $399 PSX3.

Quadcore... aaah so you say that Figure 6 is a Server only chip right ?

[0072] Using this standardized, modular structure, numerous other variations of processors can be constructed easily and efficiently. For example, the processor shown in FIG. 6 comprises two chip packages, namely, chip package 602 comprising a BE and chip package 604 comprising four VSs. Input/output (I/O) 606 provides an interface between the BE of chip package 602 and network 104. Bus 608 provides communications between chip package 602 and chip package 604. Input output processor (IOP) 610 controls the flow of data into and out of I/O 606. I/O 606 may be fabricated as an application specific integrated circuit (ASIC). The output from the VSs is video signal 612.

I just find a bit weird seeing a Server chip with a powerful GPU with 4 independent Pixel Pipelines attached to a Server chip.

You are right, we shall call it the chip Home Server.

Of course you know the PSX is called the first Home Server and it uses the EE+GS@90 nm ?

So this would be for Home Server of the next-generation or PSX 2.

Logic would say that PSX 2 would use the main components of PlayStation 3 ( think about PSX ).

This would mean that in the dawn of the Broadband Era PSX would use that chip, the Broadband Engine ( you know Sony and SCE and the word Engine ).

This would also mean this is the shrinked chip found in PlayStation 3: oh there we go again to saying that in the Broadband Enabled PlayStation 3 we would find a chip called Broadband Engine.

PlayStation 3 showing the strong entrance of the PlayStation family in the Broadband Era ?

Yes.

 

[DeadmeatGA]

...

So this would be for Home Server of the next-generation or PSX 2.

The quadcore server chip is intended for ISPs, not consumers.

 

[Panajev2001a]

Re: ...

So this would be for Home Server of the next-generation or PSX 2.

The quadcore server chip is intended for ISPs, not consumers.

So must be the Home Server, it is a server after-all

 

[chaphack]

Yeay pana, your posted .jpeg screen fits what i think of Cell! Too bad Sony isnt considering to Cellularised the PSP2..(hellya, PSP should be Celled in the first place...)?

I still say Cell will be nothing more than a glorified cpu, nothing outstanding from the Intels and the likes. Cell World will also be nothing breath-taking nor ground-breaking in the end, nothing you cant do with alternative technology.. at least not what some of you are making it out to be.

 

[Vince]

I still say Cell will be nothing more than a glorified cpu, nothing outstanding from the Intels and the likes. Cell World will also be nothing breath-taking nor ground-breaking in the end, nothing you cant do with alternative technology.. at least not what some of you are making it out to be.

Chap, just stop.

 

[chaphack]

Instead of just going ga-ga over the Cell hardware, any Sony fans know what software is going to power Sony BB Lifestyle ideals? I hope they dont stick to Real and Netscape to deliver online content, coz rivals are going to rip them apart should they use a better format, like say WMP and IE...

 

[chaphack]

Chap, just stop.

No really. I dont see Cell World as any ground breaking. I dunno, maybe you can tell me whats so special about Cell World? I mean, downloading content from the internet? Been doing that on my PC for ages. You can even do that on the Xbox today! Switch between a movie, a mp3 and a game? Samey, been there done that. Home connect? Heeheh, i have a wireless setup at home.

I cant see the "special", especially when you have to buy all Sony to setup your ideal Cell World...

 

[rabidrabbit]

Yeay pana, your posted .jpeg screen fits what i think of Cell! Too bad Sony isnt considering to Cellularised the PSP2..(hellya, PSP should be Celled in the first place...)?

Why?
Why PSP should have to be cellurised? Even more so as 'Cell' won't be ready, or mature enough when PSP is supposed to be released.
What technology is PSP2 going to use then?

I still say Cell will be nothing more than a glorified cpu, nothing outstanding from the Intels and the likes. Cell World will also be nothing breath-taking nor ground-breaking in the end, nothing you cant do with alternative technology.. at least not what some of you are making it out to be.

It is a processor. "Glorified" it also might be, and at least from the information available today, more "outstanding" than what "Intels and the likes" have on their roadmap for the same period.

Sure, you might be able to do most of the stuff 'Cell' will be doing using some alternative processor(s), but for Sony it probably would not be an option in long term.
Still, I believe, that at the time the first 'Cell' powered equipment comes out, to do a similar device using some alternative technology would not be cost effective (or even possible, if you'd want to keep the size of the device in reasonable porportions).

Yes, some people are making out the Cell to be some kind of truly revolutionary ground-breaking processor for sci-fi Matrix like world. But that person is clearly not living the sane reality.

Edit: chap, PC:s (with Windows, Linux...) are not considered as an option for easy-to-use living room family entertainment center. That is a totally different world for most.

I cant see the "special", especially when you have to buy all Sony to setup your ideal Cell World...

What exactly is this 'Cell World' you keep on referring :?
I know you blame Ken Kutaragi for putting these ideas in your head, but that's just what they are, ideas!
Much of Kutaragi's speak is 'shareholder speak' and visions of what the Sony future might be. But the future can not be fully predicted, so can not Sony's 'Cell future'. Many of the Kutaragi's Cell visions are likely not going to happen, at least PS3 generation. But in an ideal Sony Corporate world (In SC' eyes) some of then would happen in the future.

I don't think you would have to buy all Sony.
Minimum could be a 'home server' like PSX(2), I don't see the advantage to add a 'Cell TV' over some other brand's display device.

They are more like alternatives:
you can either buy a 'Cell BB home server' that has writable B-ray DVD or DVDRW+HDD, broad band conection, TV tuner etc. all tied together using 'Cell'.
or you can buy a 'Cell BB TV' that has just the broadband connection in addition to TV specific features. With this TV you could use any DVD player/recorder and not lose much of the functionality over a 'complete Cell setup'.
There might be some small advantages using 'all cell' , like automatic channel setup, easier timer setup and such... but the major advantage of 'Cell' is intra-Sony Corp (as I see it).

 

[chaphack]

Still, I believe, that at the time the first 'Cell' powered equipment comes out, to do a similar device using some alternative technology would not be cost effective (or even possible, if you'd want to keep the size of the device in reasonable porportions).

I believe that will be called the PS3...
Good for 3D games and some little extras like movie playback, nothing special if you realized the existance of XB2 and GC2.

Edit: chap, PC:s (with Windows, Linux...) are not considered as an option for easy-to-use living room family entertainment center. That is a totally different world for most.

Last time on Cnet TV, they showcased a new Sony product - Net Terminal or something. Simply put a dumbed-down-cut-back simplified PC for net surfing. Yeay know, Sony's idea for "easy" internet for casual n00bs. It bombed. Granted that was a tiny experiment compared to Cell, but at times, cutback functionalities might not work if the targetted group is either not cool enough(or expect more).

I also believe what Sony thought of, rivals will also have thought of. Cell World, CAKE World, Intel World, Xplay World etc. I dont buy the iffff that Sony will have things ahead of time.

 

[rabidrabbit]

...
I believe that will be called the PS3...
Good for 3D games and some little extras like movie playback, nothing special if you realized the existance of XB2 and GC2.

I don't realize the existance of neither XB2 or GC2, how can you be so sure?

Last time on Cnet TV, they showcased a new Sony product - Net Terminal or something. Simply put a dumbed-down-cut-back simplified PC for net surfing. Yeay know, Sony's idea for "easy" internet for casual n00bs. It bombed. Granted that was a tiny experiment compared to Cell, but at times, cutback functionalities might not work if the targetted group is either not cool enough(or expect more).

I also believe what Sony thought of, rivals will also have thought of. Cell World, CAKE World, Intel World, Xplay World etc. I dont buy the iffff that Sony will have things ahead of time.

Net Terminal = expensive, limited functions compared to similarily priced PC... Bombed? I don't think the expectations for it were high in the beginning. It was a 'niche' product like Airboard, Tablet PC and such.

 

[chaphack]

rabit,

If you have noticed, i being asking what so "special" about Cell and its World. Maybe it sounds like something powerful today, but who knows what the competitive future and complications of massive parallelism might do to idealism.

In the end, i see Cell as nothing more than a Sony "PC"(it is just using a PPC core yeay?), in your living room. PS3 will be PS3, a console. While the Cell World hoha, will go to the Cell_Terminal, the descendant of the PSX, an all-in-one breakout box with, hopefully, all the functionalities and flexibilities of a PC, yet easy to use and maintain.

Cell TVs, if anything, are just TV + Cell_Terminal integrated together. Yeay know, like SNES capabilites built into those in-flight entertainment setup. Ideal for people looking for a new TV and to try out the Cell World, but i see that as limited.

Finally, what is Cell World? *I* call it as just simply BB Net Lifestyle. Nothing spectacular. Limited by available bandwidth and infrastructure.

BUT what do the Sony fans think of Cell and its World? Seeing all the hoha, has to be something spectacular yeay? Please explain.