How large will Cell be ?

really, i don't espect PS3 Cell to have 800M transistors (but if it does, GOOD), but also expecting 200M on .065 in 2 years time on an area that big is just "being blind"
Now this is a question from me.

What chips do we have right now that are 200m running at 3ghz or higher ? I'm pretty sure the highest clocked cpus I know of are the p4 at 3.2 ghz and the athlon 64 at 2.2ghz and both use less than 200m transistors do they not ?

If I'm wrong please correct me.

Right now I know the r350 is running at 415mhz at .13 micron. So wouldn't it be safe to say that at .65 micron it should run at over a 1000mhz . But that chip is only 109m(not sure on the exact number)

I'm also pretty sure that the cell chip needs to hit ghz high speeds to give 1 tflop. Now I'm sure at .65 the cell chip would not reach 2ghz or more speeds and have 800m transistors . I could very well be wrong. I just don't see it though. I see you either clock high and have less transistors or you clock lower and have more transistors .

As I said I may be wrong and If i am please correct me . I would like to learn more about this
 
jvd said:
really, i don't espect PS3 Cell to have 800M transistors (but if it does, GOOD), but also expecting 200M on .065 in 2 years time on an area that big is just "being blind"
Now this is a question from me.

What chips do we have right now that are 200m running at 3ghz or higher ? I'm pretty sure the highest clocked cpus I know of are the p4 at 3.2 ghz and the athlon 64 at 2.2ghz and both use less than 200m transistors do they not ?

If I'm wrong please correct me.

Right now I know the r350 is running at 415mhz at .13 micron. So wouldn't it be safe to say that at .65 micron it should run at over a 1000mhz . But that chip is only 109m(not sure on the exact number)

I'm also pretty sure that the cell chip needs to hit ghz high speeds to give 1 tflop. Now I'm sure at .65 the cell chip would not reach 2ghz or more speeds and have 800m transistors . I could very well be wrong. I just don't see it though. I see you either clock high and have less transistors or you clock lower and have more transistors .

As I said I may be wrong and If i am please correct me . I would like to learn more about this

Actually a good portion of the logic of the Pentium 4 is running at 6.4 GHz: two ALUs, two AGUs, the Register File, The Schedulers, etc...

The rest of the chip is running at 3.2 GHz on a 130 nm process on bulk-CMOS.

When I say CELL at 4 GHz, I really mean only the FP/FX Units, the Register File of each APU and probably the LS ( SRAM ): the busses would run at 1 GHz SDR or 500 MHz DDR and the PUs would run at 2 GHz maximum ( which would not make communication between APUs and PU of the same PE too difficult ).

A Pentium 4 also spends a lot of logic in complex parts like OOOe and x86 instructions decoding, etc...

CELL's PU would be probably in-order ( depending on the implementation ), but quite surely not more than two-way super-scalar and with not too complex branch-prediction hardware.

The APUs are also mean fighting machines, but are not bloated and should be able to scale that high.

Of course 1 TFLOPS might be achieved combining a lower clocked CELL based CPU with a CELL based GPU.
 
...

To JVC

I'm also pretty sure that the cell chip needs to hit ghz high speeds to give 1 tflop. Now I'm sure at .65 the cell chip would not reach 2ghz or more speeds and have 800m transistors .
Bingo, you have correct ideas. I just hope the rest of this board would come to realize this common sense. Ignore what Sony fans tells and listen to what your logic tells you instead.

To Panajev
Actually a good portion of the logic of the Pentium 4 is running at 6.4 GHz: two ALUs, two AGUs, the Register File, The Schedulers, etc...
Are they really clock doubled, or is Intel using two sets of identical circuit to make it appear that way? You have to read fine prints more carefully.
 
Actually a good portion of the logic of the Pentium 4 is running at 6.4 GHz: two ALUs, two AGUs, the Register File, The Schedulers, etc...

The rest of the chip is running at 3.2 GHz on a 130 nm process on bulk-CMOS.

When I say CELL at 4 GHz, I really mean only the FP/FX Units, the Register File of each APU and probably the LS ( SRAM ): the busses would run at 1 GHz SDR or 500 MHz DDR and the PUs would run at 2 GHz maximum ( which would not make communication between APUs and PU of the same PE too difficult ).

A Pentium 4 also spends a lot of logic in complex parts like OOOe and x86 instructions decoding, etc...

CELL's PU would be probably in-order ( depending on the implementation ), but quite surely not more than two-way super-scalar and with not too complex branch-prediction hardware.

The APUs are also mean fighting machines, but are not bloated and should be able to scale that high.

Of course 1 TFLOPS might be achieved combining a lower clocked CELL based CPU with a CELL based GPU.

Well with many diffrent parts of the chips running at diffrent mhzs wont you run into timeing problems. Not only that but wont some parts of the chip clock higher than others causeing more yield problems ?

Also as the case with the p4. I now see many problems with the newest shrink. the new p4s are delayed over 4 months. What makes you think the same wont happen with the cell chips ?

My stance has allways and will allways be (till the consoles come out.) 1) The cell chip in the ps3 will not come any where close to 1tflop let alone sustain it. 2) The cell chips will be very expensive 3) The cost of cooling will also be very expensive 4) The cell chips might run into problems and delay the production of the ps3.

That has allways been my stance. Nothing has changed it. I may not know as much as others on this forum but I do know some things and this is what I know about cell at this point in time from listening to everyones views .

I never doubt cell will be a sucess . Its just that cell and ps3 are not the same things . Many of the good things about cell will also be its weakness compared to the xbox 2 set up and the gamecube set up.
 
The top sony guys... the ones that know how things are dev... and if things are going as planned... when they speak with the press, they seem quite confident in what they have...

PS one of the chips will at least equal or surpass 1B... that number is considered a milestone by many...
 
Is that 1B transistors?

If so I repeat my earlier question: what's the power and cooling requirements of that?
 
Yeah, but keep in mind the word coming out of Intel about Prescott is pretty much always glowing as well. ;)

I never make ultimate claims... I get more enjoyment out of watching the process and following the information every step along the way.
 
The Prescott will probably glowing all of its own too, and it just has hot spots ... Cell will be one big hot spot :)
 
Is that 1B transistors?

If so I repeat my earlier question: what's the power and cooling requirements of that?

I'm sure the eng.. were already thinking about that prob... back in 1999 long before we knew of cell...

Again, no statement made by the upper brass, suggests that they're doubtful of the tech... in fact their comments seem to suggest the opposite...
 
Dio said:
Is that 1B transistors?

If so I repeat my earlier question: what's the power and cooling requirements of that?

Yes. What's the power and cooling requirements of the R500/R600?

Because, if they're not correlative (granted your process technology will be inferior) and STI does this (as I believe they will) you better look into selling those stock options my friend.
 
jvd said:
What chips do we have right now that are 200m running at 3ghz or higher ? I'm pretty sure the highest clocked cpus I know of are the p4 at 3.2 ghz and the athlon 64 at 2.2ghz and both use less than 200m transistors do they not ?

If I'm wrong please correct me.

The Netburst/Athlon microarchitecture is also quickly becoming legacy. The paradigm changes drastically when you shift from the production of a commodity architecture like Netburt or the Athlon which is intended to scale for ~3years and a set-piece one with no legacy at all like Cell.

The question that should he asked, is what will be done on the 65nm node with their new architectures? And last I heard, Intel is shooting for 10GHz+ with upwards of 300M tranistsors in the desktop market. For servers they will surpass the 1B transistor market at 65nm at speed.

Lectures on the 50/65/70nm node itself have predicted high-preformance parts of around 1B tranistors at 5Ghz by 2007 IIRC, which is time indifferent in this case. With the technology being thrown at this project and the talent involved with the williness of the corperate entities behind it - this shouldn't be taken lightly. Your not looking at the grand scheme of things Jvd.

Moore's Law would seem to agree if I remember correctly.
 
Vince said:
Dio said:
Is that 1B transistors?

If so I repeat my earlier question: what's the power and cooling requirements of that?

Yes. What's the power and cooling requirements of the R500/R600?

Because, if they're not correlative (granted your process technology will be inferior) and STI does this (as I believe they will) you better look into selling those stock options my friend.
The cooling requirements of the r500/r600 will be no where near what the cell chip will be if it is 1b transistors. Not only that but the pc versions of the r500/r600 will be in a big pc case. Not a small console case. Ms might have a problem with the r500 (though i doubt it since ati chips allways run very cool compared to other graphic chips) but I'm sure they can bypass that with heat pipe cooling for a few months till they drop the process on it.

The cell chip even at .045 is going to run hot. 1b transistors. Good lord it will be impressive but talk about a area heater.

The Netburst/Athlon microarchitecture is also quickly becoming legacy. The paradigm changes drastically when you shift from the production of a commodity architecture like Netburt or the Athlon which is intended to scale for ~3years and a set-piece one with no legacy at all like Cell.
well the athlon 64 isn't all legacy. There is alot of new stuff in the chip and I'm sure they fixed it up a b it to scale much better than the older one. I guess we should wait for the k9 as it will be much diffrent than the k7,8 chips that we have now. The p4 though was a brand new chip. It was meant to clock very high and now they are having tons of trouble on it.

But anyway can you guys answer some of my questions from my other post .
 
jvd said:
The cooling requirements of the r500/r600 will be no where near what the cell chip will be if it is 1b transistors.

Why not? Seriously, your throwing around ideologies and numbers that are: (a) Unknown, (b) Inconsistent.

We can say that if Cell is has a high thermal dissipation at P process node, then any comparable part that's at P and is roughly equal to the same size will have a relative thermal output. We can also say with a high degree of probability that STI will be employing better lithography technology at P, making the MS.ATI part at an even larger inherient disadvantage.

This is a basic Zero-Sum Game, if Cell is "Hot" (as you or someone said) then the R500 better be damn hot or it'll be inferior.

The cell chip even at .045 is going to run hot. 1b transistors. Good lord it will be impressive but talk about a area heater.

Conjecture.

Well the athlon 64 isn't all legacy. There is alot of new stuff in the chip and I'm sure they fixed it up a b it to scale much better than the older one. I guess we should wait for the k9 as it will be much diffrent than the k7,8 chips that we have now. The p4 though was a brand new chip. It was meant to clock very high and now they are having tons of trouble on it.

Ok, this is how I see this:

  • The Netburst was a new architecture... back in 2000 :rolleyes:
  • Nehalem is said to be the first post-Netburst architecture and rumored to be released at 10.20GHz on 65nm.
  • The Athlon64 is interesting, but ultimatly a joke. AMD is no Intel, it shows. IBM had to resolve AMD's SOI problems, the processor is late and not impressive or indicative of much to me.
  • The Power5/6* & Cell are the ICs that I expect to be the poster-boys if you will of lithography and sSOI in particular.
*Especially Power6, which is set to be the first 65nm design of IBM proper and said to launch in 2006 where it will see "very large frequency enhancements." The 'commodity' 130nm Power5 should hit 3Ghz in 2005, BTW.

But anyway can you guys answer some of my questions from my other post .

Um, which?
 
Re: ...

DeadmeatGA said:
To JVC

I'm also pretty sure that the cell chip needs to hit ghz high speeds to give 1 tflop. Now I'm sure at .65 the cell chip would not reach 2ghz or more speeds and have 800m transistors .
Bingo, you have correct ideas. I just hope the rest of this board would come to realize this common sense. Ignore what Sony fans tells and listen to what your logic tells you instead.

To Panajev
Actually a good portion of the logic of the Pentium 4 is running at 6.4 GHz: two ALUs, two AGUs, the Register File, The Schedulers, etc...
Are they really clock doubled, or is Intel using two sets of identical circuit to make it appear that way? You have to read fine prints more carefully.

I read the fine print carefully deadmeat, thanks for caring though,

They are really double clocked as revealed at the 2001 ISSC Conference: Intel showed the different clocks running on the Pentium 4 and one of them is fast clock which is not the same thing as the base clock, but 2x base clock.

Notes from ISSCC 2001

By: Paul DeMone

Updated: 02-20-2001




Pages:
Pentium 4 (Part 1): The Clock Factory

Intel presented two papers that revealed technical details of the Pentium 4’s clocking scheme and the design of its well-publicized double frequency integer arithmetic logic units (ALUs). The 0.18 um Pentium 4, developed under the code name Willamette, has a rather intricate clocking scheme. It accepts a 100 MHz bus clock input, which is used as the reference input to two PLLs, one for the processor core, and one for chip input/output (I/O). The I/O PLL generates a 400 MHz clock, which is used to control the timing of outbound (write operation) data and the associated source synchronous strobe signals driven out the 'quad pumped' system interface. The core PLL is used to generate the time base for three different clock frequencies used by the Pentium 4 processor core. In the case of a 1.5 GHz device the core PLL generates a 1.5 MHz 'core clock'. This clock is distributed throughout the processor core using a triple 3-stage binary tree of clock repeaters as shown in Figure 3.


ISSCC2001-Notes-fig3.gif



Figure 3. Pentium 4 Clock Generation and Distribution Scheme

The clock tree drives 47 domain buffers distributed throughout the chip. The output of the domain buffers is a 1.5 GHz clock called GCLK. Each local GCLK drives a number of local clock macros that generate the actual clock signals used by flip-flops and latches. There are a variety of different local clock macro elements used in the Pentium 4. Besides incorporating the conventional gating and pulse stretching features used for dynamic power management and timing problem diagnosis, the clock macros are also capable of generating the 3.0 GHz pulsed fast clock (FCLK) used by the famous double frequency ALUs, pulsed and conventional versions of the 1.5 GHz medium clock (MCLK) used by the majority of the processor logic, and the 750 MHz slow clock (SCLK) used by the trace cache and bus interface unit. The derivation of the various processor clocks from GCLK by the local clock macros is shown in Figure 4. Pulsed versions of MCLK and SCLK are provided due to the extensive use of pulsed latches as flip-flops to save area and power, and reduce pipeline overhead.


ISSCC2001-Notes-fig4.gif



Figure 4. Processor Clocks and Their Derivation from GCLK

The Pentium 4 also incorporates advanced features for custom deskewing each device during testing. Each of the 47 domain clock buffers incorporate delay adjustment capabilities using a programmable delay element controlled by a 5 bit register. The clock distribution system also includes 46 phase comparator circuits placed between adjacent domain clocks that are observable from a common test access port. This allows the 47 processor clock domains within the processor to be deskewed during test using a binary search algorithm. When this process is completed, the delay setting for each domain buffer is permanently programmed using fuse arrays. The inter-domain clock skew of a raw Pentium 4 device may exceed 60 ps, but after domain buffer deskewing that figure can be reduced to about 16 ps. The reduced level of clock skew can increase maximum operating frequency by up to 10%. This programmable domain clock buffer scheme also provides the capability of deliberately introducing controlled clock skew between various regions of the processor core. By passing timing slack from pipeline stages that have short logic delays to pipe stages with the longest logic delays, it is possible to further raise the maximum operating frequency. Intel reported that tests with early silicon samples showed that devices could be promoted by up to one full speed bin using this technique.

<< Prev Page Next Page >>

Pages:


Copyright © 2002 - All Rights Reserved


http://realworldtech.com/page.cfm?ArticleID=RWT022001001645

As you can see in Intel's various presentations, the "fast" pipeline includes fast AGUs, ALUs, the Register File and the Schedulers.

In a similar case, by late 2005 Intel will probably have passed 5 GHz as MCLK and FCLK would be over 10 GHz and the Transistor count might be approachign 200 MTransistors.

I am envisioning APU's Register File and Execution Units ( and maybe SRAM [the LS] ) running at 4 GHz and the all the 1,024 bits busses running at 1 GHz SDR or at 500 MHz using DDR signalling ( which would be the same thing I envision for the e-DRAM ).

In the case you wanted to save on Transistors and die-area ( which would not be smart with the 45 nm SOI process, with capacitor-less e-DRAM cell Toshiba and Sony have been working on, coming relatively soon after the PlayStation 3 launch [say Q1-Q2 2007 or earlier] ) you could just leave the 32 APUs, leave the 32x128 KB of SRAM based LS and use a 128 bits Memory controller for the Yellowstone DRAM, crank up the base clock of that DRAM to 800 MHz which would yeld internally 6.4 GHz of data signalling rate and enjoy 102.4 GB/s thanks to Yellowstone ( only 256 pins due to differential signalling ).

I think 800 MHz of external clock for Yellowstone and 256 data pins for the memory interface is not a huge problem and should make happy guys like Deadmeat who hate "wasting" ( bah... ) space with e-DRAM.

I see the PUs hitting a maximum of 2 GHz and I see each of them being an in-order 2-way super-scalar core with non complex branch prediction Hardware.
 
Vince said:
What's the power and cooling requirements of the R500/R600?
I do not appreciate being asked these kind of questions. It must be obvious to you that I cannot answer, so what is your purpose in asking?
 
the new p4s are delayed over 4 months. What makes you think the same wont happen with the cell chips ?

The problem is not with the Prescott chips as they work with the new motherboards Intel is going to release next year: the problem is an incompatibility due to Voltage settings between Prescott chips faster than 2.8 GHz and the current Pentium 4 motherboards which support the 800 MHz FSB.

http://pc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/2003/1027/kaigai038.htm

Babelfish reckons :-

"The delay reason of Prescott finally clarification
- With bus interface trouble stepping modification


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

- Prescott of the mPGA478 edition where meaning becomes thin

Big Æ’gÆ’Q which sticks to the throat of Intel, that is the next generation CPU of Intel "Prescott (the press cot)". The shipment of Prescott approximately 1 quarter in lag and present schedule, ships to the OEM vendor into year, latter half from the of January of the next year has become announcement between the February head. That, after the shipping whether how much quantity is supplied there is a circumstance which is not visible.

First existing chip set and the existing motherboard (in case of Prescott FMB1.5 conformity) you can use Prescott of the mPGA478 edition which is thrown, that way. But, also meaning of existence of this mPGA edition Prescott, steadily is thinned by lag. Because in other words, new LGA775 socket edition Prescott+Grantsdale (Æ’Oƒ‰ƒ“ƒcÆ’fÂ[ƒ‹) chip set + it changes to new motherboard specifications Prescott FMB2 2004 2nd quarter.

As a result, mPGA478 edition Prescott+Prescott FMB1.5 approximately 1 only quarter is becoming something which is not meaning. After that mPGA478 edition Prescott and as for the Socket478 platform •¹ sale it is done with say, as for charm it is scanty. If when, the quantity of shipment of mPGA478 edition Prescott during next year 1st quarter will be small with this, meaning of existence of mPGA478 edition probably will be gone almost.

When it becomes so, the positioning of Prescott is difficult to Intel. As for Intel 0.13 ƒÊ m edition Pentium 4 (Northwood: It is the intention the north wood) of stopping in 3.2GHz and to the cartridge, throwing Prescott from 3.4GHz. But, when only the quantity where the 3.4GHz is limited it stops being able to put out, it is not good. On the other hand, making the release of Prescott LGA775 edition time be delayed, the to high clock converting Northwood to 3.4GHz, perhaps between that it does the selection that, it makes relay.

In any case, the lag of Prescott has produced big effect around.

- Problem occurs in bus interface

The cause Prescott being late for a long time was unclear. But, as for Intel presently, concerning the cause Prescott being late, vis-a-vis the customer you say that is information is made clear.

First, as for fundamental problem, when mPGA478 edition Prescott of present B step is loaded onto the motherboard of existing Intel 865/875 chip set, you say that the case where bus error occurs has been found. In other words, it is the case that what can test Prescott of present condition and the place, with the motherboard of expectation of Prescott ready, cannot guarantee operation is ascertained. You say that because as for the cause of that, voltage amplitude of bus interface came out, the case which is not agreeable to the specifications which are stipulated. By the way, in LGA775 edition this problem it is not, (or it solves on motherboard side? ).

System bus of Pentium 4/Prescott type AGTL+ (Assisted Gunning Transceiver Logic) uses signal technology. With AGTL+ of Intel, focusing on reference voltage "GTLREF", acquiring the small amplitude of the Â}10% to voltage, it transmits. Referring to GTLREF, it decides receiver side, whether the signal high the low/row. By the fact that voltage amplitude is designated relatively as single breadth, high-speed transmission is made possible. GTLREF is supplied, being formed on motherboard side.

As for the latest problem, those where with combination of mPGA478 edition Prescott and 865/875 motherboards, voltage of the high level time occurred, the value which it is stipulated with AGTL+ (VIH) with the case which does not coincide. As for VIH minimum GTLREF+10% and maximum Vcc, as for VIL maximum GTLREF-10% and minimum has become with 0. But, Prescott of present condition with combination of 865/875, the case which on high side is not settled in the framework of VIH occurred, it seems. As for Intel you say that when error occurs due to the operation of system bus, it was found.

This problem is solved, which of CPU side or motherboard side must be modified. However, chip set and the motherboard have already appeared in the market with Prescott ready, modification is difficult after so long a time. Because of that, Intel has made the correction of Prescott unavoidable. Intel has notified the fact that it copes with approach of 2 stages vis-a-vis this problem to the customer, it seems.

- Modifying the package and silicon at 2 stages

As for 1st step method, as for Prescott itself with while it is existing B0 step, the method of solving with the package.

Concretely, it disconnects GTLREF from the motherboard, however, forming GTLREF inside the package, it supplies to CPU. It is the case that by the fact that GTLREF which this anew is formed is shifted from established value, you supply signal input inside the range of VIH. If this, it is possible to place existing Prescott B step, in the existing 865/875 motherboards. In the tip/chip and both of the motherboards modification means there is no necessity.

However, unless correspondence can do with this method to only FSB 533MHz, you call Intel that it has explained. Because Prescott of the Pentium 4 brand is the schedule of FSB 800MHz, to that it means not to be able to use. In other words, Prescott which modifies just the package is the case, Prescott exclusive use of the Celeron system of FSB 533MHz.

Then, Intel 2nd with step, has been about to modify also the circuit design of Prescott in addition to package modification.

Intel presently the sample as for Prescott which is being shipped B0 step. This B0 step was offered to each vendor at the time of September COMPUTEX,, but none of them was operational 2.8GHz (FSB 800MHz) to at only low frequency. Perhaps this, the fact that the latest problem occurs remarkably with the tip/chip of higher clock operation than 2.8GHz is meant. Intel increasing this to C step, has been about probably to assure the solution of problem.

With C step, as for Intel you say that the circuit design of input sense amplifier of the system bus of Prescott was modified. Prescott is operated with FSB 800MHz, you say that combination of this C step and the revised edition mPGA package is necessary. Intel is advancing the company internal verification of C0 step at October point in time, says that it is the schedule which ships the sample of C1 to December vis-a-vis each vendor.

- The mass production of schedule harsh Prescott

If you look at this plan, lag of mPGA478 edition Prescott is rather heavy. Because revision change of silicon is needed, FSB 800MHz edition Prescott completely 1 means quarter to be delayed.

Intel is the plan that it starts the mass production with C1 step to end of year, but Qualification Sapmle (QS) with directly mass production considerably tight is schedule in December. Usually, Bali day Shaun ending, letting flow the wafer to Fab, until it reaches the point where it can ship the tip/chip of the finished product abundant, there is a time lag of 2 - 3 months. Because of that, whether the Prescott tip/chip of how much quantity comes out at point in time of next year 1st quarter it is unclear. From the circumstance such as that, spring of next year it is the model in industry, and others there is a voice which is worried about the supply of Prescott.

In addition, as for this method of forming GTLREF inside the package, a rather with Æ’gÆ’Å Æ’bÆ’LÂ[, certain industry authorized personnel is surprised "to there ugly (is scurvy) solution expedient is taken, cannot believe Intel," that.

You do not know source fundamental of the latest problem is somewhere. Perhaps, perhaps the electric power consumption = supply electric flow of Prescott rising from the simulation of beginning, is related with this problem.

In addition, this problem has shown also the difficulty which supports two CPU generations with the same motherboard. If Intel had modified with Prescott every chip set/the motherboard, CPU side was not modified and perhaps also the ‚Ä was completed. Actually, with LGA775 edition Prescott+Grantsdale chip set, it seems that is not such problem.

- Modifying just the package, it throws as Celeron?

In addition, as for being another doubt Intel prepares also the solution of the B0 step + revised edition package. If just C0 step should have been shipped gently, the sea urchin it is visible. Why, as for Intel the revised edition of B0 step you probably will prepare specially.

One what can be presumed, is the possibility Intel already having held Prescott of B0 step in large quantities. In order to relieve the stock of the B0 tip/chip of the dying body, perhaps Intel of such solution expedient was thought.

Actually, also modification of this place of the product plan of Intel corresponds. Intel around summer of this year changed the plan of Prescott forward fall had decided to throw Prescott of the Celeron brand for the value market suddenly, next year 2nd quarter. Usually, after new architecture of Intel & CPU of new process appearing in for the high end, it gets off to 4 about quarter it is required for the value market. However, with Prescott, only 1 quarter and Celeron class appears at speed of exceptional case.

The for the sake of there isa room to which "column with Intel of the time before the Prescott strategy acceleration, price edition throwing,as for this yield rate of the 90nm process of Intel is good next year 2nd quarter low," takes the bold strategy it had presumed. But, in order to relieve Prescott of the B0 step which, already is really produced perhaps is. In other words, with FSB 800MHz perhaps it puts out with FSB 533MHz the tip/chip which cannot be put out, as Celeron.

- To Prescott FMB2 Intel which is shifted

In any case, because of substantial lag, mPGA478 edition Prescott is diluting existence value. LGA775 package edition Prescott of one side, when it is satisfactory, calls Intel that you say. Simply, LGA775 because it is not supported with only Grantsdale chip set, becomes the completion waiting of Grantsdale and ICH6. Grantsdale is the place where presently finally the sample is being supplied.

Though, rather perhaps the real start-up of Prescott for Intel, the one which slips in the combination with Grantsdale is more convenient. In other words, by the fact that the specifications of the motherboard are changed to Prescott FMB2, at a stroke TDP (Thermal Design Power: Because thermal design electric power consumption) and it is possible to pull up the specifications of supply electric flow. Actually, as for Intel as for mPGA edition Prescott with end, you call above 3.8GHz with 3.6GHz that it supplies in only LGA775 edition, it seems. If you say opposite, Prescott above 3.8GHz that much is the case, troublesome tip/chip which consumes many electric power.

Assuming, that and, the motherboard specifications were pulled up even if with Prescott FMB2, it does not solve problem with that. In other words, as for the motherboard design to become more difficult with Icc increase, because with the rise of TDP the thermal design of PC itself becomes difficult. As for a certain industry authorized personnel "so far as for PC steadily the basket body was made small, but with Prescott the flow changes. It cannot avoid "becoming large, that you say.

The limit of the strategy of Intel in the various aspects is visible in Prescott.

Name: mas (mas769@hotmail.com) 10/26/03

José Javier Zarate (jzarate@unav.es) on 10/26/03 wrote:
---------------------------
>Could someone make an effort an provide something similar to a translation of the translation?... Please
>
>Thanks

It was remarkably detailed and fairly clear for a translation, damn can't those Japanese keep anything a secret :). The engineers can give you a detailed analysis but basically this piece is alleging that Prescott exceeds the voltage parameters for the 800fsb bus on the current 865/875 chipset but not the new 775 pin chipset. To get round this you can either modify the chipset or chip. As this chipset is already out there in volume they have decided to modify the chip, C1 stepping, in December. In the meantime the current B0 stepping works fine at 533 fsb or upto 2.8 Ghz at 800 fsb which would explains the 2 examples benched at the last speed and also explains why they have decided to use the initial batch of B0s as 533fsb Celerons. As my American manager is fond of saying, 'Shit happens', and this all means that Prescott volume won't occur until Spring 2004 and so Intel have lost their customary 6-9 month process advantage over AMD assuming the latter delivers promptly in Q2/Q32004. The article ironically states that the one time Intel tried to keep chipset/motherboard compatibility between generations it cost them. This will also mean almost certainly that a 3.4 Ghz Northwood will be pressed into action against the upcoming 2.2 Ghz Athlon 64 3400+. AMD can breathe a sigh of relief for the next six months and put their feet up,light a cigar, and share some profit with Intel :)
 
Dio said:
Vince said:
What's the power and cooling requirements of the R500/R600?
I do not appreciate being asked these kind of questions. It must be obvious to you that I cannot answer, so what is your purpose in asking?

First of all it was implied rhetorical; of course you will not answer, nor would I ever ask or want you to. Second, my purpuse was subsequently explained in a post to JVD.

I think 800 MHz of external clock for Yellowstone and 256 data pins for the memory interface is not a huge problem and should make happy guys like Deadmeat who hate "wasting" ( bah... ) space with e-DRAM.

But what guys like DeadmeatGA don't understand is that in the long-run, embedding your memory is an economically smart move as it scales linearly with Moore's Law. Unlike external RAM which has a fixed "overhead" if you will - in addition to the preformance aspects. Although, the negative is that you 'sacrifice' potential logic; but this can be masked to an extent.
 
I don't think 1 Cell chip (CPU) is going to be 1 billion transistors


but 2 Cell chips (CPU and GPU) will be over a billion transistors combined
 
Vince:

> Conjecture.

You really aren't one to talk. If you Cell faithfuls can present your dogmatic ideas as absolute fact then certainly the sceptics should be allowed the same privilige.

Personally, I wonder where this fanatical certainty comes from. Some of you seem to think of Cell as this wonder project where every aspect is perfect and nothing is left to chance. Nothing can go wrong. Sony has this thing locked - whatever "this thing" is (And let's be real here, none of us really know).

I consider myself a realist. If Sony pulls this off and it is indeed everything you hope it will be, good for them. It will be a major feat. But I'm not going to take the words of Sony execs as absolute truth, nor will I take a patent application for more than it is. I'm also not going to pretend that problems can't occur and that the laws of physics or the pressure to run a viable business don't apply to Sony. Show some restraint people. A lot can happen.
 
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