Horizon Forbidden West [PS, PC]

[chris1515]

If that was a million units, that would be 490k for PS5 and 310k for PS4. If those hypothetical unit sales were 60 USD each, that's 18.6 million USD.

Just for shits and giggles, let's say HZ:FW sells 10 million copies. Let's say they go with Sony's new 70 USD per title price. And let's say that PS4 is only 25% of sales. That'd be 2.5 million unit sales at 70 USD for hypothetical retail sales of 175 million USD.

Is 175 million USD worth it? Also, I expect HZ:FW to sell significantly more than 10 million units over its lifetime. Granted not all of it at 70 USD. PS4 is still likely to generate over 200 million USD in retail sales, IMO.

Or think of it another way, Sony is predicting shortages of the PS5 into next year. This means that if it releases this year and it's PS4 only, many people that want to play the game would not have the possibility to play it. But, unless Sony are being dicks about it, with PS4 being supported they can buy and play the PS4 version and seamlessly transition (assuming no save game fuckery) to playing it on the PS5 once they can somehow get a PS5.

Regards,
SB

Sony just said to to investor they forecast to reach 50 millions PS5 sold* in less than two years and a half.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1397802297569157123

And they said at the same time to the investor it will be difficult to meet the demand and it seems from the same presentation God of War Ragnarok will be PS5 exclusive but it arrive later probaly Q1 or Q2 2022 when there will be between 23 to 25 million PS5 sold.

How much could they sold if they could meet the demand 60 millions in 2 years and a half? It seems they will another time sold more than 100 millions consoles during a generation.

If they sold 23 millions PS5 in a fiscal year this will be the best year for a Playstation console of all time.

https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Me...PS5-to-break-24-year-old-console-sales-record

In UK each week there is a new stock of PS5, Spiderman Miles Morales appears in the top 10 of best sales. Some PS4 owner don't want to play the inferior version and they are ready to wait to have a PS5. I am part of the problem because I will not play any cross gen games until I have one.

*sell in

 

[Rootax]

Is it even worth supporting a ps4 version?
100 million+ consoles blah blah

BUT if one looks at charts the PS5 seems to sell more than the ps4
eg the last high profile release resident evil opening week UK
49% of its sales were on PS5, 31% on PS4

this ratio for ps5s4 is only going to favour ps5 more and more as more people buy it, Im guessing by the time it launches opening week UK sales for HFW will be something like 90% PS5 10% PS4
is that 10% really worth the extra effort? and it could backfire, see cyberpunk

My guess is the dev started a long time ago. So what we see is a "juiced up" version for ps5, but the main target was ps4 at one point.

 

[SumoSaki]

Shame about the massively downgraded lighting underwater, jeez such a difference.

 

[DieH@rd]

Shame about the massively downgraded lighting underwater, jeez such a difference.

Time of day may have impact, let's wait the full release.

 

[Globalisateur]

Shame about the massively downgraded lighting underwater, jeez such a difference.

Yes it surprised me but what they first showed clearly wasn't real-time. The underwater still looks great (and I have high hopes about how it's going to be used with he fight against the machines).

 

[PSman1700]

What HFW has going for it are the dense environments, the geometric density of it all, things and animals crawling swimming and flying around. Its a nice lift from HZD in all aspects am sure even on the PS4/Pro. Never thought the darn switch would play doom eternal but they made it happen. Ye it doesnt look as inspiring as on pc but its not too bad either. Rendering at something like 1080p vs 4k obviously will free up alot of resources, besides lowering settings in general.

 

[chris1515]

Guerrilla games youtube account video only with the gameplay

 

[zed]

Just for shits and giggles, let's say HZ:FW sells 10 million copies. Let's say they go with Sony's new 70 USD per title price. And let's say that PS4 is only 25% of sales.

Im predicting when it launches (and we can check UK open week sales) the ratio will only be about 10% ps4
Oh sure even 1% ps4 sales is extra money BUT
there comes downsides by supporting ps4, we could have another cyberpunk disaster, remember that scored metacritic for ps4 = 57, refunds etc
plus no matter how often ppl scream scalability etc developers will have to make compromises so it runs on the lowest common denominator, eg shall they implement some JIT loading of stuff like rachet and clank, well nah can't do that cause the ps4 can't do it. Thus levels will have to designed around this
Sure you'll losing 10% of sales but the game would be more impressive technically than it is now and perhaps would sell even more than that 10% on the ps5 (and arent those $70 vs $60), not to mention development costs will be a lot less if theres only a single platform.
Sure if the game was coming out now then you could make a good case for including ps4 but its not we are still several months if not a year + from its release

 

[PSman1700]

Nothing in HZF that really pushes graphics so much as other games do. Im sure PS4 owners will be fine and wont have to refund anything.

 

[manux]

Nothing in HZF that really pushes graphics so much as other games do. Im sure PS4 owners will be fine and wont have to refund anything.

You really don't seem to like playstation and playstation games for a self claimed "fan". But hey, to each his own. I wouldn't judge open world game that is not even shipping yet this harshly. Especially when remembering how halo looks or how cp2077 is still not properly playable or released for consoles and it's over 6months from release. There is more to games than just graphics. Comparing to some tech demos is also not the fair thing to do as games are games and demos are demos.

To me horizon is absolutely good looking and does so many things better than horizon1. Scope in HZD seems much bigger than many other open world games thanks to the grappling hook, hang glider, under water etc. Robots have never looked so good, the world seems more interactive(trees and rocks destroyed by the elephant thing+grappling hook). Gameplay also seems much more complicated like the enemies controlling and riding robots.

To pick one thing on as you said "NOTHING". What about the cloud rendering in forbidden west? Those procedurally created clouds look absolutely amazing. They are also now in lower altitudes so you can almost be in the clouds in the already shown footage. Probably also sheer scope of open world+day/night cycle pushes horizon harder versus baked games that don't have day-night time cycle implemented or are at simpler scope/pipe runs.

 

[Clukos]

The one potential positive about the cross-gen nature of this is that we are probably getting a 60 fps mode

 

[PSman1700]

You really don't seem to like playstation and playstation games for a self claimed "fan". But hey, to each his own.

This isnt the thread for personal evaluations/attacks and discussing whos a fan of what platform. Things like that de-rail the topic. Not everyone is going to share the same opinion, live with it, its a forum open to all platforms, its not playstation lovers only .

There is more to games than just graphics.

Yes ive heard that many times, and while very true, graphics have been top priority in discussions around here for a long time now.

Comparing to some tech demos is also not the fair thing to do as games are games and demos are demos.

And thats exactly what some have been doing when the UE5 non-playable demo was released last year, it was praised to hell and back and was supposedly the way forward and all, even the RT part. That changed last week when the thing became available on pc/xbox and even was playable on one of them.

To me horizon is absolutely good looking and does so many things better than horizon1. Scope in HZD seems much bigger than many other open world games thanks to the grappling hook, hang glider, under water etc. Robots have never looked so good, the world seems more interactive(trees and rocks destroyed by the elephant thing+grappling hook). Gameplay also seems much more complicated like the enemies controlling and riding robots.

To pick one thing on as you said "NOTHING". What about the cloud rendering in forbidden west? Those procedurally created clouds look absolutely amazing. They are also now in lower altitudes so you can almost be in the clouds in the already shown footage. Probably also sheer scope of open world+day/night cycle pushes horizon harder versus baked games that don't have day-night time cycle implemented or are at simpler scope/pipe runs.

Never said HZF didnt do many things better then HZD, what i say is that HZFW should be possible on the PS4 going by what we are seeing. I do believe in scaling to a certain degree, and from what has been shown, its not doing ray tracing or anything that seems SSD relevant in their demos. That typically means it can be scaled back to the PS4 without murdering the whole game.
The reason 2077 doesnt run so well on older consoles probably has something to do with the ssd streaming going on aswell as basically being too ambituous.

Also, forbidden west probably is going to look a bunch better over HZD on PS4 aswell. HZD is a 2017 mid ps4 gen game, improvements can be made there aswell.
The cloud rendering in HZD/RDR2 is very impressive aswell, i wouldnt see why the ps4 wouldnt be able to atleast do something similar in FW.
I dont even know why were discussing this, GG has announced the game to be on PS4. Do some really think it will be a refund for the majority?

 

[Globalisateur]

The one potential positive about the cross-gen nature of this is that we are probably getting a 60 fps mode

I like your optimism.

 

[chris1515]

Horizon Forbidden West PS4 will look a bit better than Horizon Zero Dawn Frozen Wild like we see in NX Gamer and Digitalfoundry video the difference will be huge but this is ok.

In DF video the difference is huge and they use the PC version.

HFW is a very good cross gen title, they improve geometry, texture, shading and maybe GI and added screen space reflection. HZD has no SSR because this is too much for PS4.

On the other side LOD management is old gen no usage of primitive shader and shadow maps is old gen too with annoying shadow popin.

This isnt the thread for personal evaluations/attacks and discussing whos a fan of what platform. Things like that de-rail the topic. Not everyone is going to share the same opinion, live with it, its a forum open to all platforms, its not playstation lovers only .



Yes ive heard that many times, and while very true, graphics have been top priority in discussions around here for a long time now.



And thats exactly what some have been doing when the UE5 non-playable demo was released last year, it was praised to hell and back and was supposedly the way forward and all, even the RT part. That changed last week when the thing became available on pc/xbox and even was playable on one of them.



Never said HZF didnt do many things better then HZD, what i say is that HZFW should be possible on the PS4 going by what we are seeing. I do believe in scaling to a certain degree, and from what has been shown, its not doing ray tracing or anything that seems SSD relevant in their demos. That typically means it can be scaled back to the PS4 without murdering the whole game.
The reason 2077 doesnt run so well on older consoles probably has something to do with the ssd streaming going on aswell as basically being too ambituous.

Also, forbidden west probably is going to look a bunch better over HZD on PS4 aswell. HZD is a 2017 mid ps4 gen game, improvements can be made there aswell.
The cloud rendering in HZD/RDR2 is very impressive aswell, i wouldnt see why the ps4 wouldnt be able to atleast do something similar in FW.
I dont even know why were discussing this, GG has announced the game to be on PS4. Do some really think it will be a refund for the majority?

Again rasterizing on PS5 goes 5 to 10 times faster than on PS4 and there is tons of geometry in HFW this is impossible to do, same for shading, texture quality. I expect Horizon 2 to look a bit better than HZD on PS4.

Between generation geometry, texturing and shading improves too and all of this is better in HFW. PS5 is not a PS4 with a better CPU, a SSD and raytracing.

Comparison of the first HZD gameplay trailer and HFW trailer

 

[PSman1700]

Again rasterizing on PS5 goes 10 times faster than on PS4

Where do those numbers come from?
Its better to compare FW ps4 to ps5.

 

[chris1515]

Where do those numbers come from?
Its better to compare FW ps4 to ps5.

Again HZD Frozen Wild release long time after the PS4 release and it is the second game of GG on the console. They will not do miracle and transform the hardware into a PS 4.9.

I think it is more 5 times but at the end this is much more and this is visible. Like I said in the two videos there is some footage of HZD and the difference is huge and visible for geometry, textures quality and shading quality. And I am not the only one to see it basically everyone out of you. Digitalfoundry said it, NX Gamer told it, ElAnalistaDeBits told it, people told it.

I know another guy who can't tell the difference of geometry density.

And for be frank you are the only one I heard unable to see there is a huge difference in term of geometry density.

 

[Recop]

While i didn't see any major flaw in the video, there is clearly room for improvement in many areas :

- The skin of the black character in the beginning cinematic looks like plastic honestly...
- The sun rays are low resolution
- Aliasing is spotable

Also, it would be cool to have proper hair collision on PS5.

 

[chris1515]

While i didn't see any major flaw in the video, there is clearly room for improvement in many areas :

- The skin of the black character in the beginning cinematic looks like plastic honestly...
- The sun rays are low resolution
- Aliasing is spotable

Also, it would be cool to have proper hair collision on PS5.

You can add shadow popin, better specular reflections.

 

[Recop]

You can add shadow popin, better specular reflections.

Yeah, but i'm more confident that it will be improved in the final game.

It's more delicate for wrong shaders. Also, i don't like how teeth are rendered in the game : they are way too opaque.

I'm not impressed by the cinematics in this game. My gold standard is still from MK11 and compared to any game (yes, even compared to ND) :

Angles, animation, overall quality : it's the closest thing to a movie i've seen in a video game.

 

[PSman1700]

And for be frank you are the only one I heard unable to see there is a huge difference in term of geometry density.

Compare HZFW ps4 vs pd5, not HZD vs ps5 forbidden west, which you cant do yet.