Horizon Forbidden West [PS, PC]

[Seanspeed]

No, the kind of crap we see today is something different. Its like the writers are taking down to you, characters arent belivable, theres no subtitlity, theres no room for moral gray areas, its preachy, and every single "joke" falls flat. Apparently just calling someone "lug nut" is funny to these people.

Sure, many games arent very deep, but they were still fun. Sgt Johnson from Halo isnt i very deep character, but he´s a fun character as opposed that super anoying, melodramatic winy pilot from infinite who I just wanna shot in the face with a rocket launcher.

I played mass effect again pretty recently. Its lightyears (pun intended) ahead of much of what we see today. Characters are belivable and likable. You get the impression that these people are experienced and competent leutenants, scientist, soldiers, crime bosses etc. Often there are gray areas with no clear right or wrong, instead of the protaganist preaching to the player what the moral correct thing to do is.

There are exceptions of course. I thought psychonauts 2 had excellent writing, but the absolute high mark for me was guardians of the galaxy. The writing, acting, direction and humour was freaking perfection.

I dont know man, I really dont see what you're seeing at all(speaking as to games as a whole). Yea, we get more 'serious' dialogue nowadays instead of the days where developers just didn't really even try that hard, and yes, this will fail sometimes. But as I said, overall, it's gotten better in the process.

As for having grey area choices, that's mainly just a design thing, not a writing quality issue. Not every game is trying to present players with moral quandaries with no right/wrong answers or whatever. If you prefer that, cool, but that's not some issue with today's games, as if they all should have that or something. I personally dont get much from that kind of thing, as there usually is a more obvious 'dont be an A hole' option somewhere in there that I'm basically always going to pick.

Also, I too replayed Mass Effect recently and definitely think you're overlooking how very stilted and awkward so much of the dialogue is in that game. I was actually paying attention to that, because of all the flak over Andromeda's dialogue writing and wanted to see how much better the original was since it'd been so long since I played it. I do think the game still has enough personality that you get invested in the characters and all, and it helps tremendously that you are with these characters for so long(no surprise the least loved characters are largely the ones introduced late on in the series) so I'd call it a success in that department, but the writing itself was still very lackluster judged by anything except video game standards.

Now if you just wanted to criticize Forbidden West for issues with its characters and all, I can get that. The first game was largely the same, and it was a common criticism that the main characters just didn't seem to have a lot of personality. But I definitely do not think this is some 'industry wide' problem at all as you're making it seem.

 

[Davros]

At the end of the game Sylens mentions 5 companies that may have developed weapons to defeat nemesis do you ever get missions to find this weapon

 

[ZebMacahan]

I think part of the issue is that the quality has effectively remained largely the same (poor) but has become fertile ground for tedious propagandists who think they're changing the world with their slop.

You're not gonna. It's largely a silly medium. Have some fun with it.

I think it's why the sergeant character you mention works well: they're a larger than life archetype like many characters from 80's action movies. And that's largely where the medium's still stuck. Using something so shallow to attempt social commentary is almost always going to come across as hamfisted.

I agree about the propagandist. Not only is it tedius being talked down to, but the writing is terrible as well.

Yeah, I games are a different type of medium than movies for example. I mainly play games for fun gameplay, and 90% of the time that is some kind of power fantasy. Its important for me that the games are in a setting I dig. Third its good if the story and characters dont suck, since that can take much of the fun out of the game. Whenever I hear marketing people or developers talking about how their games are "about telling amazing stories" I think they are focusing on the wrong thing. With very few exceptions what I want from a game story is some kind of mystery or exciting sci fi theme, a rarely care about the characters in a deep heartfelt way like I can do when watching a movie.

Many games are like shallow 80s action movies, and theyre supposed to be fun. I think David Jaffe say something about he dont want too much character development when it comes to character like Kratos, and to a degree I agree with him. Master Chief is supposed to be a shell without much of a back story the player can put themselves into. It seems to me when 343 took over Halo they wanted to flex their writing muscles and expand on the character, add melodrama, yada yada, instead of doing what serves the game best.

 

[ZebMacahan]

I dont know man, I really dont see what you're seeing at all(speaking as to games as a whole). Yea, we get more 'serious' dialogue nowadays instead of the days where developers just didn't really even try that hard, and yes, this will fail sometimes. But as I said, overall, it's gotten better in the process.

As for having grey area choices, that's mainly just a design thing, not a writing quality issue. Not every game is trying to present players with moral quandaries with no right/wrong answers or whatever. If you prefer that, cool, but that's not some issue with today's games, as if they all should have that or something. I personally dont get much from that kind of thing, as there usually is a more obvious 'dont be an A hole' option somewhere in there that I'm basically always going to pick.

Also, I too replayed Mass Effect recently and definitely think you're overlooking how very stilted and awkward so much of the dialogue is in that game. I was actually paying attention to that, because of all the flak over Andromeda's dialogue writing and wanted to see how much better the original was since it'd been so long since I played it. I do think the game still has enough personality that you get invested in the characters and all, and it helps tremendously that you are with these characters for so long(no surprise the least loved characters are largely the ones introduced late on in the series) so I'd call it a success in that department, but the writing itself was still very lackluster judged by anything except video game standards.

Now if you just wanted to criticize Forbidden West for issues with its characters and all, I can get that. The first game was largely the same, and it was a common criticism that the main characters just didn't seem to have a lot of personality. But I definitely do not think this is some 'industry wide' problem at all as you're making it seem.

I dont know if it applies to games as a whole, but they´re are some games where this really stands out, in a way it didnt before.

Regarding gray areas I´m not necessarily meaning having different choices, but showing the moral gray areas that exist in real life in an interresting way instead of preaching and talking down to player. In forbidden west there is a sidequest where som refugees have a camp on a mountain where they are blocking the way. I guy in town has shot down a stormbird and want to get his salvage, but the refugees wont let him pass because of some religious reason. The guy is planing to get some friends and beat the refugees up if they dont let him pass. Aloy gets to the stormbird first and gives the salvage to the refugees. The game paints this in a black and white manner where he is a total asshole, Aloy tells him that many times. I dont think Im the only one who can see this sitation in a different way: these refugees come to another land and are stopping people from making a living, and somehow the people who cant make their living are the bad guys? Spiderman 2 was like this as well.

Aloy think the refugees religion is stupid and thinks that aloud at some point. Im not exactly pro religion, but its the constant preaching that is so anoying, like the writers are trying to lecture me. Compare that to the Geth and Quarian story or ghost of tsushima, those stories have dilemmas with no clear wright or wrong, and the games arent being preachy about it.

What dialogue in mass effect did you find awkward? I never played andromeda, the more I saw of it from trailers just made me not want to play it. Two things stood out for me from what I saw. In the original characters felt belivable and competent. In andromeda everone sounded like they were in they´re early twenties. One would think that humanity would send someone a little more experienced to spearhead our first trip to a new galaxy. No way Im buying that these characters are competent and experienced soliders, commanders etc.

In mass effect the dialogue wasnt so exposiatory as it is in forbidden west, in the way the side characters more or less tells you what kind of person they are.

 

[DuckThor Evil]

I Finished Forbidden West last summer. The gameplay was nice, although I found the first game a little better in that aspect. The story had some highlights, but in general I found the over the board social agenda of the writers to be quite appalling. Minor spoilers coming...

After the 30th sidemission where we found a "mansel" in distress or a clumsy boy suddenly using his gay-superpower to become the best mountain climber in the world, the final boss of the pit master quest being some grandmother... Women headputting men to the ground etc.

If you are allergic to woke stuff. stay away from this game. If you don't mind that, it's not a bad game. Personally I'm not looking forward for the next one.

 

[Davros]

There's a Horizon forbidden West porn parody


It looks distorted because it's a vr video

 

[ZebMacahan]

I Finished Forbidden West last summer. The gameplay was nice, although I found the first game a little better in that aspect. The story had some highlights, but in general I found the over the board social agenda of the writers to be quite appalling. Minor spoilers coming...

After the 30th sidemission where we found a "mansel" in distress or a clumsy boy suddenly using his gay-superpower to become the best mountain climber in the world, the final boss of the pit master quest being some grandmother... Women headputting men to the ground etc.

If you are allergic to woke stuff. stay away from this game. If you don't mind that, it's not a bad game. Personally I'm not looking forward for the next one.

Yeah, its a shame. Just imagine being one of those very talented people working on this game and the whole thing ending up so much worse because of all that crap.

 

[ZebMacahan]

Am I missing something with the two sisters who manufacture weapons? It seems to me like they are portraying the one called "Boomer" as having some kind of mental disability?
"Things go BOOM! Yaaay! Look at pretty sparks!"
"No, the flying machines wont be blown sky high, they´re already in the air"

I dont know if Im missreading the whole thing, but it seems like the writers want us to laugh at a woman with a mental disability and the "funny" things she says?
If that is what theyre going for I actually do find that pretty offensive. Interresting that people who want everyone to know how progressive they are find stuff like this funny.

Am I missing something here, have I missjudged the whole thing, or is this what they are going for?

 

[ZebMacahan]

Am I missing something with the two sisters who manufacture weapons? It seems to me like they are portraying the one called "Boomer" as having some kind of mental disability?
"Things go BOOM! Yaaay! Look at pretty sparks!"
"No, the flying machines wont be blown sky high, they´re already in the air"

I dont know if Im missreading the whole thing, but it seems like the writers want us to laugh at a woman with a mental disability and the "funny" things she says?
If that is what theyre going for I actually do find that pretty offensive. Interresting that people who want everyone to know how progressive they are find stuff like this funny.

Am I missing something here, have I missjudged the whole thing, or is this what they are going for?

So apparently she´s on the spectrum, seemed like I missread this.