Hate list (good read for developers i would think)

Kzin

Newcomer
I understand that making a good game must be realy, realy, realy hard. But sometimes some design choices totaly puzzles me. How anyone can think that these things could even be remotely fun is beyond me. So I thought I might start a thread about things that always suck in games: a hate list.

Here are some general things:

Bad checkpoint/save system. (Devil may cry: a limited number of continuies. Dying on the first boss is a bad idea because you will realy need those yellow orbs on the third boss. How about that for ruining the flow of the game? Black: inconsitent checkpointsystem. Sometimes you have to play for an hour before you get a checkpoint. And if you have to turn off your system half way throu a level, well...bad luck cause you have to start the level from the begining the next time. No midlevel saving...yeah, sounds like a great idea. Frustrating the player is good. Splinter cell 1 & 2: scarce checkpoints in games that are about trial and error, and were 90% of the playing time is waiting in the shadows. Well, this list could go on forever)

Respawning/endlessly respawning enemies. This makes strategic play worthless, and it totaly ruins the imersion. The illusion of a living gameworld just falls apart. Hope they skip the respawning enemies in COD5.

On rail shooting. Sure, on rail shooting segments can create a little variation, and as long as they arent too hard they can work as a nice litle diversion. But for some reason on rail shooting segments are often combined with crappy controls, and are waaay to difficult (graw1, sly cooper 2). And the only thing the player can do is shoot. You cant try a different strategy, or dodge incoming missiles.

Bosses in first personen shooters. BOSSES.IN.FIRST.PERSON.SHOOTERS.ALWAYS.SUCK. Always have, always will. Any developer who thinks about putting a boss in a fps game should kill themselves, then quit their job.

Escort missions. Having to protect some idiot who always runs into the line of fire is never fun. Never. Often it is enough have to stay alive your self, having to watch some moron who you would rather shoot is only frustrating. And it ruins any stratetic play.

Enemies who without any warning, and without any reason spawn behind you. That makes trial and error gameplay wich is not fun.

Some more speficic:

Playing as the arbiter. Why would i wanna play as a stupid frog? It breaks up the immersion. Why turn the coolest enemy you got into a BFF? And it sucked playing like raiden in mgs2 so why would it work here??

Any developer who are guilty of any of these design choices should kill them selfs, and those who dont should be put to death. Im totaly serial!
 
Bosses in first personen shooters. BOSSES.IN.FIRST.PERSON.SHOOTERS.ALWAYS.SUCK. Always have, always will. Any developer who thinks about putting a boss in a fps game should kill themselves, then quit their job.
Care to advance some arguments to justify your position? At least some of your other points had some level of reasoning.
I personally will always remember the Doom boss of episode 2 (the badass walking around with his rocket launcher) and being genuinely scared of it. Shooting him down was fun too, and required the mastering of strafing. Played Serious Sam? The first time you see the final boss was out of this world as its sheer size was really impressive for an FPS (since then PainKiller and presumably other FPS'es have employed gigantic bosses). The Portal boss also required the player to apply everything that they'd learned within a time constraint; this gives you a sense of achievement when you finally defeat it.
I personally prefer a final boss requiring different gameplay to win than just "more of the same". STALKER is a great game, however its lack of a final boss was just disappointing (you fight 4 enemies with the highest AI IIRC). Although the endings of Half Life 2 and HL2 episode 2 didn't contain bosses as such they offered genuinely new gameplay which made these final sequences very enjoyable.
 
This is going to be a lovely thread :D

One of my recent hate things is the last level in mp3. Why did they put no savepoint in it? do they think its fun to have the player finish that 15 minute level everytime he dies at the boss fight? why did they do that? it doesnt make the game more fun or harder because it level itself isnt that hard, it just takes time and it isnt even a fun or good looking level I think so it only bores you. Didnt finish the game because of that.
 
I don't necessarily agree with all your items. It depends on the design and how well it is executed. That aside, how old are you? I don't think it is very "funny" to talk about people, who work harder at work than most people do in their respective professions, to "die/kill themselves" for not pleasing every consumer whim and desire.

"You dropped a loaf of bread on the ground! Go kill yourself door boy, and then quit your job" is an aweful, self-centered view of the world. Maybe you were trying to be funny, but we do try to be more mature about the industry here :)
 
Nothin suck as bad as escort missions - hate them since the day I first played Wing Commander (part one)... Thats also the reason why I didn't finish ICO ... Mission in COD 4 where you have to run around and deffend tank from terrorist with rocket launchers make me never play that game again
 
I don't necessarily agree with all your items. It depends on the design and how well it is executed. That aside, how old are you? I don't think it is very "funny" to talk about people, who work harder at work than most people do in their respective professions, to "die/kill themselves" for not pleasing every consumer whim and desire.

"You dropped a loaf of bread on the ground! Go kill yourself door boy, and then quit your job" is an aweful, self-centered view of the world. Maybe you were trying to be funny, but we do try to be more mature about the industry here :)

No, he was totally serial :yep2:

Anyway, I'm a big RTS player, so my huge complaint is always and seems like it will always be about pathfinding. I'm waiting for the time when I play an RTS and just not notice it....then a while after the game it'll hit me, hey! my units did what I told them!
 
Bad resolution support. (X360)

Halo 3, PGR4, CoD4 all has a horrible visuals in 1280x1024. That was the only reason why I didn't buy any of them. Devs should be aware that most people prefer letterbox to full screen which has no incentives whatsoever.

Or MS should have forced devs to letterbox any game at 1280x1024. Totally gutted.
 
"good read for developers i would think" wait wait, you expect developers to learn from this thread? I can't imagine how insulted they must be.
Nothin suck as bad as escort missions - hate them since the day I first played Wing Commander (part one)... Thats also the reason why I didn't finish ICO ... Mission in COD 4 where you have to run around and deffend tank from terrorist with rocket launchers make me never play that game again
You missed out on something special on Ico. I agree many escort missions in games aren't that enjoyable when the AI sucks but Ico isn't so much one big escort mission as it is a companionship game. It's a very sweet game.
 
I don't think this thread is about visuals...

Pretty valid "hate" points though. It totally sucks having a 1280x1024 LCD and VGA cables, only for the game to output at a lower resolution and then fill the display. Why not just do pixel-for-pixel mapping and adding black bars at the top/bottom like MOST other games do? There is no excuse for this and getting either lower resolution, or worse stretched, images for no reason other than disregarding the issue isn't cool. Especially since I would bet more users have VGA cables than ol' HDTV owners with 1080i sets that don't accept 720p.
 
Care to advance some arguments to justify your position?

Ok, maybe they have a place in more arcade types om games. Most fpses usualy are trying to create a beliveble world, the illusion just falls aparts the moment a boss enters. In a game like quake were weapons hover and rotate above they could work. One thing I realy liked about hl2 and halo were that there werent any bosses. It made the narrative and gameworld so much more imersive and beliveble.

But also gameplay tend to get realy boring. What i like about shooters is ducking behind cover, flanking the enemy, using different tacticts. Boss fights usualy revovle around circle strafing and pattern memorization.
 
Must strongly disagree about bosses. When done well such as Gears they are an integral part of the experience. Otherwise it becomes tedious. As well as being a good place for graphical showcases..

A couple of my pet peeves in FPS:

Vehicle segments: These are almost never done well, and are almost always annoying. Whether it's Half Life 2, Gears of War, or Halo 3, in all cases the vehicles are simply an annoyance to be suffered at best.

Zombies/extreme gore: Getting tired of both of these cliches in FPS..even a "normal"game like HL2 seems to throw in a gory zombie level now..these are very cliched.
 
I don't necessarily agree with all your items. It depends on the design and how well it is executed. That aside, how old are you? I don't think it is very "funny" to talk about people, who work harder at work than most people do in their respective professions, to "die/kill themselves" for not pleasing every consumer whim and desire.

Im being totaly serial! ;)

But seriously, I have very much respect for developers and I understand all the insaine amount of work, effort and soul put into games. Im not saying things like "the AI is stupid!", "the graphics are ugly!", "the levels are boring!". I understand that getting these things right take a lot of work, time and resources. I cant even imagine all the work behind a game like Black (great game by the way), thats why its even more puzzling to me that someone decides not to have any mid level saves in it. A friend of mine stoped playing it because of that. If I made a wordprocessor I wouldn´t make it so people could only save their work every 50 000 word. It makes no sense. It ruins all the hard work people have put in the game. I usualy avoid games if I know they have a bad save system.
 
"good read for developers i would think" wait wait, you expect developers to learn from this thread? I can't imagine how insulted they must be.

I actualy do think developers could learn from this thread. If alot of people hate only being able to save between levels then that might not be a good idea. I think that´s why developers test their games. I feel insulted when I have paid alot of money for a game and it tells me i have to play for 4 hours straight if I am to make any progress.
 
Without all those variations in gameplay, it sounds like you are discribing Doom... Or any game from id...
Implimentation is what makes all the difference...
 
Zombies/extreme gore: Getting tired of both of these cliches in FPS..even a "normal"game like HL2 seems to throw in a gory zombie level now..these are very cliched.

Since when was HL2 a "normal" game? Besides the "zombies" were there in HL1 as well so naturally I'd expect them in the second one if there are headcraps.
 
You do realize that over half of my military career was escorting people that I would rather shoot, not to mention, oh the whims of Langley the same packages could go from assets into targets and vice versa. One of our primary functions was get in and get out, normally that meant getting out with someone (snatch and grab).

Hell, even in the movies they have escort missions, how do you prove you're a billy bad ass in the movies, you keep OTHER people alive!

That may be, but I play games to be entartained, to have fun. And almost always escort missions are only frustrating. In real life you would probably die after one hit. Not many games are like this though. The reason is cause then they arent much fun.
 
Alright fine, here's mine!

Six-axis anything - It's stupid technology, it's totally unperdictable, and it's just a dumb premise!

Of all the examples of just how completely worthless it is, the best use of it has to be in Heavenly Sword, and I think the devs did what they could - but you can only polish a turd so much (the six-axis support...not that game itself, which I thought was pretty decent). I have to believe that any developer working on a PS3 title is under some pressure to make six-axis support a part of their game, and to them I say - hold strong, be vigillant, and for gods sake - lets just burn this technology once and for all!

:)

Jack
 
I completely disagree with the Arbiter/vehicle segment complaints. Truth be told, I preferred playing as the arbiter because he had a far better character than the Chief inside the game. As far as vehicles are concerned, they're awesome if done right E.G. the Halo series.

Boss battles are a no-no though.
 
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