Halo: Reach

(Amended posted from GS): I like what I am reading, sounds good. As I said before I would sacrifice some pixels if it means large scale combat (a lot of enemy AI, vehicles, and 4+ coop sandbox battles) so this was nice to hear.

I have seen some concerns on forums by Halo fans that new game designs, like quasi upgrades/classes would break the "Halo" gameplay...

If the game (both features + map design) are balanced with the new features in consideration it should be a huge issue if Bungie has the skill to adapt to new concepts. Very few companies have successfully migrated from one major franchise/design to the next (disregarding incremental evolutions) with success.

I am sure there were a lot of people who when Bungie talked about their design concepts (vehicles with foot troops, instant access to melee and grenades, new health system with rebounding shields, 2 weapon limit, radar, etc) and suggested dozens of potential MP variants that (a) a lot of people scoffed and (b) thought it impossible to balance such a wild design compared to the uber balanced Quakes, Counterstrikes, and UTs of the day.

What will hold Bungie back is
(a) being married to old design concepts and having a difficulty to re-invent, and
(b) a fear of fans calling everything "new" as "broken" because it doesn't match their preconceived idea of how a Halo game should work.

One of the reasons Halo took off is Bungie was willing to use technological advances to implement new ideas where a lot of other studios were content with their "tried and true" concepts. At some point Bungie will need to grow up. The question is if it will be with Halo--and if Halo is destined to the path of Doom, Quake, and Unreal or if it can re-invent itself while being true to care game concepts.

Hopefully, Bungie doesn't consider weapons spawning in fields as a "core" game concept.
 
I don't know if it's against B3d's regulations, but here's some halo reach goodness i found at a web page. ModEdit: Scans not allowed (and already posted/removed on the previous page)

 the game play graphics look very much like in that trailer.
 
Scans are not allowed. And for magazine shots they are going to use the highest quality images they can generate.
 
On top of that, photographs of printed bullshot media are like applying a "cure artifacts" filter. We'll have to wait until we get at least direct feed bullshots to judge the game's actual looks.
Then again, personally I'm still optimistic - Bungie has the resources and the drive to make something awesome. Just getting rid of the 640p noAA resolution would already be a nice improvement but the info listed around the HBO forums suggests substantial tech advancements too.

As for the gameplay, it's hard to judge from such an article... the beta test will be a lot more informative and that starts in March or so, right?
 
nightshade said:
The magazine said that they have a different kind of LOD system, was that a reference to Tessellation ?
Click to expand...

maybe so, i can't think of any types other lod systems that are out there other than two.

you know, i wanna toss this out there.

does any remember those leaked shots on neogaf?

three are dead on correct......which is leaving me a funny feeling about them being fake.

one of the shots show a needler rifle......in which case yes halo reach indeed has that gun.......and it looks pretty much the same.

the second one that matches perfectly up from neogaf is one that shows tinted in blue the needler looking at a fort built up to the edge of a small cliff, page 60 and 61 of that gameinformer mag has a bigger view of that same area with bluish tint.

and lastly there is a shot of a spartan holding a rocket launcher like weapon, it looks like george with his seemingly signature weapon.......the robustness of his upper body armor is giving it away, along with his green somewhat bulky re-enforced shins. (if you look at all the other spartans he's the only one with that.)

the leaked shots are still at neogaf's page if any want to see for them selves.

the graphics have changed quite a bit but the concepts are the same.

i think, bungie was actually testing some of the map layouts of reach with halo 3's engine and possibly level editor.

anyways, if these leaked shots were just guesses then this guy deserves a round of applause, cause Ive read and seen quite a few of people's concepts and none were this close.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
nightshade said:
The magazine said that they have a different kind of LOD system, was that a reference to Tessellation ?
Click to expand...

Unlikely, because it's about taking away detail from the existing highres models.
Discrete LOD versions are still more likely.
 
Just saw the magazine scans, I'm pretty impressed with the lighting technique and enemy count as mentioned there. The use of LOD is a big question mark now since they did suggest its useful presence and how the distance objects would get less treated. Something definitely needs to be seen in true screenshots. The low poly cliffs, rocks and etc in the sparse environment are not so impressive though.
 
The things I can identify look really good, comparison shots with HALO 3 are interesting.

I hope that they improve the length of the SP campaign and that they reduce the back tracking...and that they don't change the gameplay!

The epic fights (20! vehicles) make me want to play this game...now!
 
In terms off it overall appearence you can make compartive judgemnt as they kindly provide, Halo 3 and Reach models comparrison. Halo Reach is a fair way beyond 3 thats for sure. The big news and I hope it turns out to be true, is 40 AI and 20 vehicles on screen at the same time.
 
Silent_Buddha said:
Definitely makes sense to not follow the book. And in fact it appears Reach itself and the battle of Reach will be totally different and not even remotely similar to the book.

To answer someone's comments on the previous page, no, Spartan III's were not in the Fall of Reach book other than a possible blurb here or there about working on something new with regards to Spartan project.

Also in the book, the actual ground battle on Reach lasted only a few hours. Spartan II's were on the ground for less than an hour and got overwhelmed by sheer numbers.

So reading the book probably wouldn't help you as it appears the game is going to rewrite the history of the Battle of Reach. Or perhaps more accurately the game is going to ignore what was previously documented in the book.

I think this is the most interested in a Halo game I've ever been. Halo 1 and 2, I had no real urge to purchase, but did eventually on the PC. Halo 3 I was only mildly interested in getting.

But I find myself now itching to play Reach. It's certainly now cemented as one of my must buy games of 2010...

Regards,
SB
Click to expand...
What they mean is that they will not chronicle the events of the book, Reach is a planet and if you have read the book you would recall that the spartans IIs landed on one section of the planet trying to secure and defend the generator powering the MAC cannons. These guys are probably on another section of the planet.

As these guys are mostly Spartan IIIs, their existence is not public knowledge, what with ONI and their secrecy.

Like I've said before, they don't have to regard/disregard what happened in the books to tell the story in this game.

Actually, they seem to take into account a lot of what did happen in the books in this game, there is the mention of ONI, spartan IIIs, human insurrection, etc. And this is something I didn't think they would do.
Needless to say, as someone who has read most of the books I couldn't be happier.:D
 
ultragpu said:
Just saw the magazine scans, I'm pretty impressed with the lighting technique and enemy count as mentioned there. The use of LOD is a big question mark now since they did suggest its useful presence and how the distance objects would get less treated. Something definitely needs to be seen in true screenshots. The low poly cliffs, rocks and etc in the sparse environment are not so impressive though.
Click to expand...

The game is still knee deep in development so of course not every aspect of its visuals is going to look fantastic at this point...
 
Details of the new tech:
Refined approach to distance and detail
Allows dramatically expanded number of enemies, light sources and other details
Described as "imposter tech"
Level of Detail (LOD) system allows building of bigger and more populated spaces for exploration
Distant objects are rendered at low poly with cheaper shaders, ie "imposters"
Imposter look great at distance and detail increases the closer you get to them
Less chance of pop-up and stippling as environmental geometry, plants, buildings, enemies or anything else can be placed into the visual field at the same extreme distances without profound hit to system performance
At extreme close range items can be rendered with incredible detail, ie, a wall was shown from inches away with tiny rivet features in the metal popped on the screen with perfect clarity
Imposter system indirectly frees up memory which can be devoted to other technical aspects
Lighting being one of those aspects
From Halo 3's 3 or 4 light sources, Reach's engine presents 20 to 40 dynamic lights at the same time
Weapon effects benefit greatly from the improved lighting, ie Plasma bolts moving across the screen with their own independent light source, casting colour and shadow across the environment
More improved lighting examples, a Warthog gun firing at a wall with hundred of real sparks flying from the stone, the particles interact not just with the wall geometry, but with it's normal map additionally, the particles scatter down onto a nearby vehicle and react with its curves and lines, the sparks bounce and flow along the tiny textured surface
New weather system bringing rain to many missions, adding to the atmosphere
The sky is no longer a sky-box like past Halo games, it's a true space in the overall environment, ie a ship descends from orbit and towards you, you can watch it make the full descent as a real object would fall
Motion capture heavily implemented, a majority of the cut-scenes based on captured actions
On-screen characters exhibit an animation technique known as variable gait blending, when a character changes speed, ie walking to running and vice versa, the animation of walking blends seamlessly into running and then sprinting, also, when turning on a pivot, players no longer stay still and magically turn in a circle, they realistically move around the pivot with their bodies and lifting their feet in reaction
Bungie hired company Image Metrics to aid with human faces, which now appear dramatically more lifelike than Halo's traditional potato faces.
 
scently said:
What they mean is that they will not chronicle the events of the book, Reach is a planet and if you have read the book you would recall that the spartans IIs landed on one section of the planet trying to secure and defend the generator powering the MAC cannons. These guys are probably on another section of the planet.

As these guys are mostly Spartan IIIs, their existence is not public knowledge, what with ONI and their secrecy.

Like I've said before, they don't have to regard/disregard what happened in the books to tell the story in this game.

Actually, they seem to take into account a lot of what did happen in the books in this game, there is the mention of ONI, spartan IIIs, human insurrection, etc. And this is something I didn't think they would do.
Needless to say, as someone who has read most of the books I couldn't be happier.:D
Click to expand...

My point being that the Battle of Reach, from the moment the Covenant landed to the point they nuked it from orbit, was a matter of a few (2-3) hours. Far too short for the game itself.

Likewise, the fact that a Spartan II is in a squad with Spartan III's. Up to that point ALL Spartan II's operated in purely Spartan II squads. And at the Battle of Reach, 3 (or was it 4) Spartan II's including the MC were sent to the oribital dock to destroy the ship with coordinates of Earth. ALL of the other Spartan II's at the time were sent to defend one of the ground power and control stations for the orbital guns (and died in less than an hour).

Basically, the only thing this means is that unlike say Warhammer 40k, the books aren't considered canon. And Bungie aren't particularly concerned with maintaining consistency between the books and the game. IE - Bungie's vision of Halo as a game comes first and foremost when making their games.

Regards,
SB
 
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