Maybe you are right but nothing he said confirms what you are assuming. You choose to be on the optimistic side and thats fine, but I haven't the holy respect for bungie you seem to and won't be reading any vague comments from them as facts. The way I see it, they set their engine to push out something unrealistic for the target platform and dumped frames to fool gamers and build hype. I already said I don't like trailers so you can see where I'm coming from. The guys making medal of honour had what they clarified as gameplay to show and we got this from Bungie. Both games come out around the same time?
OT/ Is NeoGaf really an important site? I went there yesterday for the first time and its a mess. Just 2 subforums I saw and post just anywhere. Do you have to be a member to see more or something?
Last edited by a moderator:
That's a very stupid thing to say. There's plenty of people in this thread even who already love Reach and they haven't seen a second of gameplay, same as for any PS3 exclusive.
While I don't mean to speak for anyone else, I would guess some people take issue with your assumption that Bungie maliciously intended to "fool" people with this trailer. Some here, like Laa Yosh, do this stuff for a living and are thus better qualified than most to judge what is realistically possible and what is not.
Personally, I think there is too much negativity. Of course trailers are supposed to build hype, otherwise why spend resources to make one? Bungie showed us what they are shooting for, and according to them, they did it with their game assets and engine. Yeah, they made a video from frame dumps, but it's not like they hired a CG company to make a video and passed it off as the real deal. And they explained exactly what they did. How can that be considered an "intent to deceive"?
In the end, it's not about blind holy respect, it's about giving them the benefit of doubt. After all these years of successful games, Bungie has certainly earned at least that.
Last edited by a moderator:
ShadowWolf64
Regular
I give Bungie the benefit of the doubt because they are a great developer who supports their games for a long time which is something most dev's don't do for they're titles...Semitope fails to read the part where Bungie stated that the trailer is using in-game assets while running on the Reach engine.It's a bit easier to get things up and running in a cut-scene then it is actual gameplay.Bungie never tricked me with the world premiere of Reach as it only got me incredibly excited for the game as im a huge Halo fan ever since the game debuted on the original Xbox platform back in the fall of 2001.
Bungie is knee deep in the development of Reach and I honestly doubt that they give a rats ass about a couple of naysayers doubting their abilities to deliver on a goregous looking game.Especially from people on a non respected site like Neogaf in which the the mods and its vasty majority of members are ps3 only fanboys.
upnorthsox
Veteran
I agree that cleaning up the framerate is completely reasonable and valid esp. with early builds. However, can someone explain to me how batching up your frame buffer will give you better AA let alone extreme AA?
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Well according to them...
And they haven't even gotten around to optimizing the engine yet, which means things like debuggers, etc. are also running in the background. I wouldn't be surprised if One year prior to UC2 releasing, it was also in a fairly unstable state with variable framerate running the graphics that it does right now.
Regards,
SB
Last edited by a moderator:
Silent_Buddha
Legend
I'm glad to hear they're doing something on the AA front (and so should Silent Buddha).
AA woooo. I'd also love to see devs start tackling shader/specular aliasing at some point, but guess that's a bit much to ask for.
I'm not sure if Reach will or won't. I have a feeling they may be trying to re-invent the Halo-verse on console. After reading the Fall of Reach book, I can kinda see where they are going with this. It was a bit of a dark book (not a literary masterpice, but enjoyable fluff), with the chances of Humanity being completely destroyed growing towards the end until it was all but certain that we'll be extinct shortly.
So, it's easy to see this could be a dark and gritty time. But I really like the ecclectic mix of comedy and drama of the Halo series up to now.
For example the grunts in the Fall of Reach are far more vicious, violent, and nasty than they are in the games. They eat the dead, feeding on the corpses of fallen enemies. They are absolutely fearless and charge until their enemy are dead or all of them are wiped out.
I DO NOT want to see the book version of the grunts in the game. I like the comic relief they provide, something to prevent the game from dropping into a dark brooding shooter.
That's just one example. Where I hope the game sticks to its roots rather than following where the books have gone.
Regards,
SB
ShadowWolf64
Regular
I'd love to see a mixture of the grunts from the books with the traditional cracking jokes grunts.
Thanks for the trust in me, but you shouldn't take my word over Bungie's. As Buddha has already quoted, Bungie has stated that it is up and running in real time, but the frame rate is not stable enough yet. That should be good enough for anyone without some agenda to push.
But the whole issue about the trailer and the 'truth' about it has received far more attention than what it deserves, so let's just forget about it and get back to the game.
Actually, it's the jackals that feed on flesh, and noo the grunts are not fearless in the books, it's just that there are normally hundreds of them at a time in the book, but yeah they are not the funny grunts you see in the game.
ShadowWolf64
Regular
I trust in your technical prowess but like you, im giving Bungie the benefit of the doubt on this.Yes, this "issue" about the trailer and the truth about it has gotten too much attention to the point that we are not discussing the game itself.Anyways, what changes to the melee attacks is Bungie making for Reach?Do you guys think its going to be more dynamic in the sense that we are going to have different melee attacks depending on the angle in which you come at your opponent?Please give me some nice opinions on that
Silent_Buddha
Legend
I haven't read the rest of the Halo books yet, just the Fall of Reach as a prelude to this to see what might be involved.
And in the book they state that after the battle the grunts and the jackals feed on the flesh of those they have killed.
So maybe the lore was changed a bit after this book and they treated differently in the rest of the books.
[edit] - In one Passage...
And
Either way, I prefer the comic relief grunts in the previous Halo games. Although I suppose if they are going for a Mature rating, then it's not likely they'll be back in their previous form... But hopefully they don't go that route...
Regards,
SB
Last edited by a moderator:
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Probably more like Star Wars (constantly re-interpreted) than like Warhammer (generally considered canon).
But it gives something to discuss while waiting for the game.
Regards,
SB
What Bungie was talking about was rendering each frame at a very high screen resolution and then downsampling and stitching all frames together. Imagine being able to use the photomode in Halo 3 for a range of time and having a feature to composit it for a 720p video.
For high frequency areas (object edges, specular & alpha textures), there is much more sampling information available when converting the frame to a lower resolution. Say you render a frame at 7x7 times the resolution, that's 7x7 times the amount of sampling info per pixel when you downsize. Another effect of rendering to a larger screen will be the usage of the highest MIPMAP for textures given a large enough resolution, so textures in the distance are affected. It somewhat diminishes the need for additional texture filtering.
Multisampling increases the sampling rate at polygon edges, but won't work on textures - it's a save on pixel processing load, but not memory or bandwidth.
My prediction for the final gameplay screens being, 2x MSAA, jagged shadows, low texture filtering but better than Halo3's, slightly toned down lighting and artifacts caused by LOD, all to maintain a 720p framebuffer and 30fps. Let's see how wrong I can be.
BTW, has anyone noticed any object based motion blur in the trailer just curious?
BTW, has anyone noticed any object based motion blur in the trailer just curious?
I think they are more canonical than the star wars books and the books, especially the ones by Eric Nylund are really good. The games presents the story as if it was only master chief against all the covenant but the books talks a lot more about other heroes. It's quite a dark universe but also very interesting. Personally, I am not too worried about the origins of the spartans in the new game as their back story can easily be developed without any changes to the established canon. There are other special commando spartan teams already in the haloverse, e.g gray team in Cole protocol, and the black team in upcoming halo:bloodlines from marvel comics.:smile:Probably more like Star Wars (constantly re-interpreted) than like Warhammer (generally considered canon).
But it gives something to discuss while waiting for the game.
Regards,
SB
