Half-Life 2 XB360 won't be using tiling to achieve A.A.

[Mmmkay]

RR6 is 4xAA + 60fps

RR6 does not have any anti aliasing.

 

[liolio]

this thread becomes ridiculous...
there no difference between first gen ps3 games and 2nd gen xbox games.
ps3 just have more time to polish theirs first gen titles.
Even more we knows, we know that ps3 devkit were closer to final product than xbox ones.

Originally Posted by Jesus2006
That's only true. However, i still wonder how developers seem to have so little problems with pushing out up to 4xAA (even at 60 fps, Warhawk) on PS3, while bandwidth is only half of the current high end graphic cards.

It 's a known fact ati and nvidia are stupid then spend money on bus and huge memory pool for nothing....
Anyway this can happen but it should be wise to be in a more "wait and see" fashion in regard with recent downgrade of resistance fall of man.
And "easy is just to much Sony is lucky having so great devs on his side.
Tiling seems to be a problem it 's not implement in very commun 3d engines, I hope dev can work this out with theirs own mods, but it's a important issue for MS who has claimed free 4xAA in every title all around the world.
I think it's more a matter and time and money (dev costs) whan most of game are multi plateform.
We will see what happen in this regard with cell and multiplateform games.
What 's interesting too is user base, witch console will be the base dev plateform? If ms is out done by a huge margin... I don't except tiling
to have a chance to shown is interest.

 

[Jesus2006]

Anyway this can happen but it should be wise to be in a more "wait and see" fashion in regard with recent downgrade of resistance fall of man.

There is no downgrade, it's a graphical upgrade in exchange for FPS. SP always has been 30fps, while MP was locked at a constant 30fps now as well.

Oh and how come Cod is running at 60fps? That's really new to me, although it looks like 60fps sometimes, when you look in the sky with no other polygons visible (at least the CoD i play does that). And please don't come and compare with such graphical absolutely not demanding games like DoA and RR6 (which does not have any AA at all btw, but some AF *cheers*! ).

And yes imo there is a big graphical difference between PS3 and Xbox (+2nd gen) titles, and that is AA and AF and im still waiting to feed my 360 with something that really looks next gen, with good AA and AF but i cannot see anything coming soon (especially since UE3 games like Mass Effect which im really looking forward to wont have any AA...).

 

[Jesus2006]

Edit: I might add, it's not the 360's fault that UE3 games won't have AA

 

[Hardknock]

There is no downgrade, it's a graphical upgrade in exchange for FPS. SP always has been 30fps, while MP was locked at a constant 30fps now as well.

Oh and how come Cod is running at 60fps? That's really new to me, although it looks like 60fps sometimes, when you look in the sky with no other polygons visible (at least the CoD i play does that). And please don't come and compare with such graphical absolutely not demanding games like DoA and RR6 (which does not have any AA at all btw, but some AF *cheers*! ).

And yes imo there is a big graphical difference between PS3 and Xbox (+2nd gen) titles, and that is AA and AF and im still waiting to feed my 360 with something that really looks next gen, with good AA and AF but i cannot see anything coming soon (especially since UE3 games like Mass Effect which im really looking forward to wont have any AA...).

Now explain why Madden and several other 3rd party games look better on 360 than PS3 (and yet EA has had dev kits for each system the same amount of time)? Resistance does not have AF and neither does several titles slated for launch. Nor do a lot of games have AA. And I'm curious, what PS3 launch games look better to you than 360 launch titles? COD2 looks better than Resistance plus it's 60fps compared to 30. DOA4 looks much better graphically than Tekken 6 and VF 5. PGR3 looks much better than Motorstorm (both are 30 fps). Where are these unbelievable PS3 launch titles that you speak of?

And I'm not saying the PS3 launch will be bad, it's actually looking to have the most diverse amount of launch games in history. But to say all PS3 launch games are blowing 360 out of the water is taking it a bit far.

 

[scooby_dooby]

not that these games are pushing the GFX department ...

And warhawk is?

 

[liolio]

it's not me who came with such a comparison RR6 is awfull, and from what I've seen in some shop COD II is nowhere near 60 fps.
For resistance, I don't know what to think, sony came at E3 with games with AA and 60 fps etc...
Now it's mid summer, lot of people are in hollyday and guess what, we add 8 player in MP and lock the whole game at 30 fps.
Personnaly I don't care that much for fps as far as the game plays smoothly 30fps is ok for most game styles.
I agree with you AA and AF, tiling seems to need time UE will probably evolve to manage it (the question is when...).
But the lack af AF is more important to me while i'm playing i'm not too picky if I see aliasing ( it appears some post processing effects can make up for it, while moving at least), but blurry texture are very unwelcome even in the back ground especially when you're aiming HD...

HS
I've made fun of you in a deleted post, and i apologize for it.Since i've red other posts from you and it's clear that i've made my mind far too quickly.Sorry. (i'm speaking to jesus2006)

 

[scooby_dooby]

And yes imo there is a big graphical difference between PS3 and Xbox (+2nd gen) titles, and that is AA and AF and im still waiting to feed my 360 with something that really looks next gen, with good AA and AF but i cannot see anything coming soon (especially since UE3 games like Mass Effect which im really looking forward to wont have any AA...).

GRAW, Fight Night 3, these don't look next gen???

 

[Jesus2006]

GRAW, Fight Night 3, these don't look next gen???

GRAW looks good, but has only 2xAA and no AF and the framerate is quite low.

FN is indeed the graphical best game imo overall so far, but on the other hand it's just a fighting game, theres not so much to render

Don't get me wrong, there are some 360 games that really look good, but im really missing AA and AF among these games.

 

[Inane_Dork]

Does anyone know if the current Z buffer has to be in eDRAM? Or can it be in system RAM?

 

[Hardknock]

and from what I've seen in some shop COD II is nowhere near 60 fps.

IGN's Hands on report:

There is little room for argument here: both the PC and the Xbox 360 versions look, sound, and play spectacularly in nearly every regard.

The Xbox 360 version shares several similarities with the PC version. Both are filled with well-animated soldiers, ornamented with highly detailed environments, and they all move at crisp framerates. The 360 game held at a constant 60 fps, and the PC, at least right now, runs at 30 FPS.

If you do a google search practically every review/preview states the 360 version holds a constant 60fps.

Edit: Sorry here's the link http://pc.ign.com/articles/654/654988p1.html

 

[Jesus2006]

If you do a google search practically every review/preview states the 360 version holds a constant 60fps.

Edit: Sorry here's the link http://pc.ign.com/articles/654/654988p1.html

Sorry, but this is BS. The game is nowhere near close to a constant 60 fps. The framerate jumps around all the time, with have tearing and lagging all the time (especially with fog effects).

I've got this game right hear at home on the 360, played it through and i know what im talking about!

 

[liolio]

agreed, I'don't like WWII games at all I should have lack of objectivity.

 

[Mmmkay]

IGN's Hands on report:

Which is shockingly rose tinted for a launch title. Ye Gods!

Seriously though, I own the game and it in no way holds a constant 60fps. IGN is so incredibly off the mark that it reminds me of the furore over Full Auto. It was disovered that the majority of reviewers had played the game in 480p not realising the terrible performance in hi def. I could almost believe that the same thing happened with CoD2, given you'd have to have cataracts to not notice the framerate issues.

 

[Fox5]

Which is shockingly rose tinted for a launch title. Ye Gods!

Seriously though, I own the game and it in no way holds a constant 60fps. IGN is so incredibly off the mark that it reminds me of the furore over Full Auto. It was disovered that the majority of reviewers had played the game in 480p not realising the terrible performance in hi def. I could almost believe that the same thing happened with CoD2, given you'd have to have cataracts to not notice the framerate issues.

Heh, I remember one website (perhaps FiringSquad?) had an article up about how the xbox 360 was much more powerful than any PC because it could maintain 60fps all the time in COD2. Not only does COD2 not run at 60fps all the time on the 360, but it's not even running at the same settings as the max possible on a PC. (texture quality is at least 1 step below the highest pc setting)

 

[Neeyik]

Please stay on topic folks, although that said the thread has pretty much run its course anyway.

 

[predicate]

Is it possible that the reply is incomplete in explanation? For example, Epic aren't using it because MSAA does not work well with the graphical techniques they're using. Is it possible that there are similar conflicts between tiling and techniques Valve are using?

 

[London Geezer]

Don't know why people are still bickering about this. It's actually pretty simple. Valve and most other developers porting PC games to the X360 already have an engine and have very little incentive to re-write the whole thing to make sure the few geeks on internet forums are happy.

They're porting the PC engine to a console that is quite PC friendly, and as such they will keep it as close to the PC as possible. Using tiling and all other unique features the X360 has would be more work for them, and they obviously feel they don't need to do more work as HL2 on X360 will sell like cherries anyway, whether it has AA, tearing, slowdowns or not. If it looks pretty enough, lots of X360 owners will be happy enough, and Valve will be happy enough with the revenue generated from this relatively small job.

It's business.

 

[inefficient]

Don't know why people are still bickering about this. It's actually pretty simple. Valve and most other developers porting PC games to the X360 already have an engine and have very little incentive to re-write the whole thing to make sure the few geeks on internet forums are happy.

I guess the argument to that is that Valve does not have to re-write the "whole" engine. Just "part" of the renderer.

And this would not be re-writing the renderer to make an amazing next gen game. They would be merely trying to shorehorn an fairly dated game to run on a new console.

And I don't think its outrageous for fans to have expected that this sort of shoe-horning should be possible. After all, the game was running on 9800 class hardware at ~60fps with 4x FSAA.

 

[nAo]

To handle tiling rewriting your renderer might not be enough as you also need to take care of your data as well.
let say you level is for some stupid reason a single gigantic mesh..then you're in big troubles with tiling (and even without it )

Marco