[H]OCP updates GFfx review with correct 2xAA screenshots

Discussion in 'Architecture and Products' started by Dave H, Feb 1, 2003.

  1. CeiserSöze

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    Afaik 8xS in the driver panel is 8x (2x2 OGMS + 2x1 OGSS). Otherwise it would would be the same as with 4xS and 6xS: No OGL support...
     
  2. Ailuros

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    8x is IMO completely useless. If the driver panel actually states 8xS then that is misleading, since at least in D3D I'd expect a 2xRGMS/4xOGSS combination.

    Depends how you define "messing up", especially since the competition is limited to 32bits only and the advertised Supersampling part still missing. Nothing is perfect on either side of the river bank ;)
     
  3. Bambers

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    9700 does 16bit AA now doesn't it? or were those leaked drivers :/

    the non S 8x mode seems a little pointless to me. Its barely any better than 4xS for quality :|
     
  4. Ante P

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    leaked drivers, but they should go official any moment now (with some minor updates to them for that matter :) )
     
  5. Himself

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    I think NVIDIA has gotten too complicated with all the FSAA modes, I would want to be able to just make something look good and super fast, or look better but slower, not pick the one that had eggs for breakfast instead of toast. :)
     
  6. Ailuros

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    "Little" is very mildly put. You'd be times better off with just a 2xRGMS/8x Aniso combination in a higher resolution.

    I'd say they've so many "hybrid" alternative modes, that they need to clear that mess up themselves first. Why the heck does s.o. need an extensive number of blur/non-blur, rotated/ordered grid. MS/SS (at any possible combination) modes anyway?
     
  7. Nagorak

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    What the hell is the point of this 4xS, 6xS, 99xS bullshit, anyway? Why not just have straight rotated grid 4x/6x or whatever? Having two steps doesn't seem to make any sense whatsoever to me. It can't help performance at all to have to do things in two steps, and since the R9700's AA looks better, it's obvious it doesn't produce better image quality.

    Why all the confusion with the stupid AA modes? R9700 has 2x, 4x, 6x: end of story. GF FX has 2x, Quincunx, 4x, 4xS(?), 6x, 8xS(?).... Quincunx is a garbage algorithm, it looked like crap when it first came out and, although they may have improved it, it doesn't look or perform significantly better than 2X AA while blurring the image a lot more. Again why are the xS AA modes even necessary? If xS really gives better image quality, then they should just make it the standard and call it "4x" or "8x". If it doesn't do any real good, then they should just drop it (probably should just drop it).
     
  8. Babel-17

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    Very interesting thread. I'd love to see nVidia be able to offer some better aa solutions. Two things, 1) I thought that, even with the FX, MS AA is limited by hardware when using rotating grid to just 2x and 2) I also think some owners of 17'' monitors who also buy an FX card will not be amused to be told the card is mostly optomized for using aa at higher resolutions. By the second point I mean that ATI offers the extremely viable option of playing with 6x aa at the resolutions of 1024x768, 1152x864 and 1280x960/1024. For some 17'' monitor users 1280x960/1024 isn't even a very viable choice due to hardware limitations on the refresh rate.

    Even some 19'' monitors aren't very pleasant to view at 1600x1200 and don't shine even at just 1280x960. On the other hand, the trend for users of high end video cards also having high quality monitors capable of high resolution will only increase and I do think that 1600x1200 using 4xs aa (even just 2x rgms aa can be sweet) can make for an awesome non aliased screen. I just upgraded from a GF4 Ti 4600 so I know that for a fact from my subjective viewpoint. It's not that big a stretch to imagine that setting as being playable (eventually) in many games on the FX. It could be quite viable especially when one considers the cpu bound condition of many titles .......... lol, shades of the old Voodoo 5 5500 days indeed with that argument of mine. :)

    Edit: Lol, Nagorak, you forgot the "hack" setting of 4x 9 tap (4x ogms plus a quincunx like blur). :)
     
  9. CeiserSöze

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    I think those xS-modes act as a makeshift: NV2x/3x can't do more than 4x MS and rotated grid MS is only possible with 2x, which makes things even worse. They had to find another way to do better FSAA and so those xS-modes were born.
    Imho you're better off going with different rotated grid MS-modes combined with anisotropic filtering instead of those performance-hungry MS/SS-hybrids (yes, I'm aware of the issues with alpha-test textures when doing pure MS / aniso. filtering but they don't bother me much).
     
  10. Pete

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    Brent (and other reviewers): why not use a homemade demo, one in which you pause for a while at each location in which you'd like to take screenshots, to ensure the screenies you present are from the exact same angle (and thus free of those "the angles are off" nagging doubts)?

    BTW, thanks for the work you're putting into your review (present and future), and the many extra shading benches you've run and posted about in the past few days.
     
  11. THe_KELRaTH

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    I'm rather lost as to the point of that x2Quincunx mode. Comparing NV's x2AA v x2Quincunx the standard x2AA looks better. Quincunx seems to blur the image and noticably blurs the text too. Just look at the UT2003 pic and the fps display characters then imagine that effect on a typical small font as used in gamechat.
     
  12. Babel-17

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    Good suggestion Pete. Btw, Unreal II by way of it being a single player type FPS will offer the "save game" option and would seem ideally suited for this purpose. Should be available in stores in a few days (Feb. 6?). No demo yet sadly but I would think a review copy shouldn't be a problem. Extremely demanding game that pushes the new Unreal engine.

    ONP by Team Vortex is a single player FPS that is freeware and requires/works with an installation of UT and also has a save game feature. As does Alice, RTCW and MOHAA for Q3A engined games. Alice can be picked up for around 12.95 US. (Lol, that sounds immoral and wrong)

    Those three would make for a nice representation imo. Tossing in a half life game would reflect what is actually getting played online ..... so would Battlefield 1942 but I don't know about its having a save game feature.
     
  13. Ante P

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    Quincunx has always blurred the image and IMHO opinion I could never really say that the actual jaggie removal was much better than standard 2x
     
  14. THe_KELRaTH

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    My damn keyboards' rebelling again ...damn typos.. was test.. should be text :lol:
     
  15. noko

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    Only suggestion I would like Brent to follow up on is showing the aa between the GF FX and Radeon 9700 Pro with Alpha texture samples. In some situations the aa will probably look better on the GF FX over the Radeon 9700 Pro. Hell this might get ATI to turn on SSAA methods as an option :). Come on Brent if you have the time.
     
  16. Ante P

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    good idea :)

    I need a 2x MSAA / 2x SSAA combination for my little raddy :twisted:
     
  17. surfhurleydude

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    Cool, 2xAA on GF FX and Radeon 9700 Pro look pretty much the same, and they're at slightly different angles, so I can understand why the rail might be a TAD (because it's not a whole lot) more jaggier in the GF FX pics. Everything else in the 2 pics look about even though.
     
  18. Fuz

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    Thought so. :wink:

    So much winking going on, I feel like I should buy you a drink then try to take you home for some rough sex.
     
  19. caywen

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    face it...

    no matter how you fiddle with the settings, 8xS is never going to look as good as R300's 6x.

    :wink:
     
  20. Tahir2

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    Following Fuz' post all wink emoticons are banned. :lol:
     
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