GT4 Reviews start rolling in...

[sir doris]

The PS2 controllers (Dualshock2) do have analogue braking and accelleration! They are presure sensitive.

In GT3 traction control and the anti skid 'thing' is on by default, this makes the handling very dull, especially with the joypad. Turn it off and it's fantastic even with a joypad.

 

[rabidrabbit]

When I play GT3 with DualShock2, i set the acceleration and braking on the right analog stick, up is accelerate down is brake.
It does not enable the simultaneous using of brake while accelerating, but I found it more sensiteive than the "analog" buttons.
IMO the analogueness in the buttons is not that good if you need to regulate the amount of input at any finer degree. They are just not well suited for analog accelerating and braking.

 

[cthellis42]

Can you dual-assign certain commands so that you could, say, put brake on one of the triggers as well, so you could do the very thing you speak of? (Applying the brake while accelerating.)

 

[rabidrabbit]

I'm not sure. I think you could put the acceleration on the right stick, and brake for example on R1, but putting brake on "right stick down" and R1 I think is not possible.
To me, the brake being on R1 while acceleration is on the stick would be too much memorising it's just not intuitive the brake being above the gas (as in cars the brake is on the left, or negative side of thegas, so in a controller it should be somewhere else than on top of the gas )
Edit: but if the accel was on "Stick Up" and brake on "Stick Left"... wouldn't you be able to sort of use the accelerate and brake at the same time with diagonal... must try it,,, sometime... maybe when GT4 is here.

 

[Johnny Awesome]

See, you guys admit it's a problem. The solutions just aren't all that great because the DualShock just isn't great for racing games.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I wouldn't call it a problem, just a minor inconvenience
analog braking isn't that important imo, but accelerating anolgically does make a difference, and then you can just use the right stick, which is at least as good as a trigger (if not better)
I think even if the DualShock did have analog triggers, i would still use the stick for accelerating.

 

[sir doris]

It's easy to regulate the power with a bit of practice, you just have to be gentle. Admittedly when you are racing 600+bhp racing cars without traction control it does get interesting ...

[swiss tony]
playing GT3 with a DualShock2 is like making love to a beautiful woman...
[/swiss tony]

 

[Phil]

See, you guys admit it's a problem. The solutions just aren't all that great because the DualShock just isn't great for racing games.

No, the only problem is that you're claiming the DS2 doesn't have pressure sensitive buttons when in fact there are (and can be used in various different configuration in GT3 as is shown further up).



Anyway, given that in real-life, you have only two (!) feet and 3 pedals (!) - assuming manual transmission with clutch of course - and by default the left one is assigned for the clutch, it's clear that one can't effectively access the accelerator AND the breaks at the same time. So why bother trying to simulate that effect using a joypad in the first place?

(I know I know, it's a trick I usually do out of lazyness when pressing the "X" button and simply when braking extend my thumb to access the breaking button - but this really only in arcade games and when playing any GT games using the wheel, I only use my right leg, like when I were be driving with an automatic. Breaking while accelerating at the same time is pretty pointless... it won't make you accelerate nor break better.. in fact... it's pretty bad for the weakest denominator, the clutch anyway.

 

[Almasy]

Hats off to london boy. It was remarkable how f*nboys showed their colors when he said "they aren´t particularly good".

 

[Disintegration]

Anyway, given that in real-life, you have only two (!) feet and 3 pedals (!) - assuming manual transmission with clutch of course - and by default the left one is assigned for the clutch, it's clear that one can't effectively access the accelerator AND the breaks at the same time.

Breaking while accelerating at the same time is pretty pointless... it won't make you accelerate nor break better..

This is patently false.

Full disclosure: I work for Microsoft, and used to be a member of their Racing Games studio. That does not change the fact that the statements above are incorrect, however.

Using the brakes and gas simultaneously isn't just possible -- it's a requirement for track work in a car with a manual transmission. When downshifting under braking, the engine needs to be sped up from the rate at which it was turning in the higher gear to the rate that it will be turning in the lower gear. If you just drop the transmission into gear and let out the clutch, the rear wheels will lose traction since the engine speed doesn't match the road speed. In order to avoid this, you have to use a technique called "heel-and-toe downshifting" -- braking with the ball of your right foot while simultaneously blipping the throttle with the heel of the same foot.

But that's not interesting for GT4's purposes, because shifting isn't modeled to that level of detail. What is interesting for GT4 is left foot braking, or using your left foot to brake while still using your right foot to feed in throttle. There are several advantages to this approach. On FWD cars, this technique causes the rear wheels to be braked more aggressively than the fronts, allowing the car to rotate better, much as it would if you pulled the handbrake. Conversely, on RWD cars, left foot braking causes the front wheels to be braked more aggressively than the rears, stabilizing the car and reducing its tendency to get tail-happy under braking. Last but not least, left foot braking allows quicker transitions between braking and gas since your feet are already on the appropriate pedals, instead of moving back and forth between them.

Don't believe me? Ask Michael Schumacher.

Incidentally, "braking" is done to slow a car before corners. "Breaking" can also slow a car, but is nonetheless something that racing drivers try to avoid.

Steve

This post reflects my personal opinion, and does not constitute an official communication by my employer.

 

[-tkf-]

Here

And here

Not particularly good, but hey...

Maybe one of the best PS2 games to ever come out (if you like racing games of course) better graphics and more bang for the buck than ANY game released so far. And judged on the Time Limited demo it's fucking fantastic

And what do you find "not particular good" about the reviews?

Gran Turismo 4 is a masterpiece and there's no two ways about it.

And the other review:

If there is any doubt in your mind that this game was not worth the wait, forget it, because it was entirely worth the wait. Not only is it the best Gran Turismo to date, but also the best console racing simulator available. Stay tuned for in-depth looks at B-Spec,

 

[Acert93]

Hats off to london boy. It was remarkable how f*nboys showed their colors when he said "they aren´t particularly good".

I thought it was kinda funny too. I read the reviews from the link and came back and was getting a chuckle over some of the comments Yeah, 9.9 is "not particulary good" hehehe

I have always liked the GT series. Actually bought a PS to mainly play GT/GT2. Really a pretty awesome series and has some insane depth. Great game play + killer depth = Killer App. That said, not improving the AI much (what the?!), no online (this would have made up for some of the AI issues), and limitations in cars you can use against other players are small gripes. BUT those complaints can only go so far. The game is HUGE. Some of the best bang-for-buck gaming you will ever get (if you like racers). Perfections and Imperfections aside you have to tip your hat--I think the GT series is really what good games are about. SUBSTANCE. GAMEPLAY. DEPTH. REPLAY VALUE. PRETTY. No fluff, just a lot of great gameplay and fun. It also appeals to all sorts of gamers--casual gamers who like fast cars and pretty visuals and garage junkies. The GT series just does too many things RIGHT to not like.

Btw, my guess online play is being held out as a Killer PS3 app. GT4 will sell well on the MASSIVE PS2 install base--so while gamers want it, Sony still makes their money. Take the GT brand, strong track record, a solid game, and a killer online element and THAT would be a Next Gen killer App.

Xbox and GCN owners would not complain if GT hit their console Although I hear the Xbox is getting a game fairly similar. Always surprised that the GCN did not get more quality racers considering this was one of the strong points of the N64.

 

[rabidrabbit]

Racers one of the strong points of the N64 :?
I don't remember many racing games made for the N64.
The remake of some Ridge Racer, and one other racing (rally?) game which name I don't remember are the only two that I can think of.
Not counting Diddy Kong and Mario Kart etc. of course.

 

[-tkf-]

Don't believe me?


Steve

Best link ever!

They fail to mention several things though, keeping the revs up on the engine and something about the exhaust system (i read something about that can't remember the exact details)

But it pretty clear that the main advantage is the smoothness in speed that is gained. Rubens did switch after this didn't he?

But i wonder how many people that would actually gain from left foot braking in GT4 would actually use a controller

Just keeping the control now with shifting gears and braking/accellerating on ONE stick is enough work.

 

[-tkf-]

Hats off to london boy. It was remarkable how f*nboys showed their colors when he said "they aren´t particularly good".

It was a lame troll, something that really doesn't belong here.

 

[cthellis42]

See, you guys admit it's a problem. The solutions just aren't all that great because the DualShock just isn't great for racing games.

Actually, I think all gamepads are patently bad for getting the most out of a sim-like racer like Gran Turismo, and all gamepads function on various levels of "fine" for playing them otherwise (arcade-style or not). Within that "fine" area, the Dual Shock 2's triggers have enough analog resistance to work "fine" as well, and the trick being talked about isn't really a big deal. (If it could/should be accessable or not.)

For any really "arcade" racer, the need for an analog trigger is almost nil, as you pretty much function with three speed states: accelerating to full, accelerator-off-and-coasting, and braking.

Gran Turismo is simply one of those games I wouldn't bother playing without a wheel, as it feels like playing an FPS on keyboard only. Unresponsive, sluggish, and simply lackluster. I got out of playing GT1 and 2 fairly quick for just that reason.

 

[London Geezer]

Hats off to london boy. It was remarkable how f*nboys showed their colors when he said "they aren´t particularly good".

It was a lame troll, something that really doesn't belong here.

What exactly are you on about? Really...
I said the reviews weren't particularly good, as in in-depth. I pretty much only look at IGN reviews, and i expect them to have a 6+pages review up.
How is my commenting on the reviews trolling?
I think i made it clear how i feel about the game itself. Some people need to calm down.

 

[cthellis42]

You initial comment WAS confusing. But you'd think people would have read the clarification earlier in the thread as well, if they were so concerned. Hehe...

 

[London Geezer]

Yeah i should be banned.

 

[cthellis42]

Here you go: