Global warming

[corduroygt]

If you don't give a fuck about AGW, whats your motivation for posting in an AGW thread?

To argue the viewpoint that it's not worth spending much money on combating it here, since a) USA will be just fine and b) Gas prices are taking care of that already.

 

[Vadi]

I don't use led or fluorescents anywhere I want to stay for some time.

Halogen bulbs still save about 30% I think but they are inascendent and don't induce headaches, thank you.

 

[Grall]

Halogen bulbs still save about 30% I think but they are inascendent and don't induce headaches, thank you.

Why would non-incandescent lamps induce headaches?

If you're referring to flickering, I've not seen a flickering fluorescent light in an age and a half. The LED lights I've checked out didn't flicker either.

 

[Gubbi]

Let's get a perspective.

At home, we use 125kwh/month. According to this, 449grams of co2 is produced for each kwh in my part of the world (mix of wind power, mostly coal and some cheap norwegian hydro power). This equates to 56.1kg co2/month.

I bike to work whenever the weather allows it. We still use around 100 litres of petrol/month. Each litre releases 2.3 kg co2, so that equates to 230kg co2/month.

We spend 4 times as much co2 on transportation compared to everything else.

I use halogen bulbs everwhere indoors, the quality of light is much better. CFLs outside.

EU phasing incandescent light bulbs out is nothing but symbolic, IMO.

Cheers

 

[AlphaWolf]

Why would non-incandescent lamps induce headaches?

If you're referring to flickering, I've not seen a flickering fluorescent light in an age and a half. The LED lights I've checked out didn't flicker either.

It's not the flicker.

The energy efficient compact fluorescent lights that are commercial available generate radio frequency radiation, ultraviolet radiation, and dirty electricity; they contain mercury-a known neurotoxin; and they are making some people ill including those who suffer from migraines, epilepsy, skin problems and electrical sensitivity

http://www.electricalpollution.com/documents/08_Havas&Hutchinson_EP_CFL.pdf

/shrug

I'm not sure what it is, but I much prefer sitting under a halogen or LED light to a CFL. I recently switched the light in my office to halogen from a CFL and I notice less eye strain.

 

[Grall]

Lol, that's bullshit. Pseudo-science at best, if not outright fraud. I bet what you're experiencing yourself is 100% placebo btw. Without testing you in a proper double-blind study there's no way you or anyone else can draw any conclusions about the REAL effects on you of switching light source.

 

[Grall]

EU phasing incandescent light bulbs out is nothing but symbolic, IMO.

It's not symbolic. By forcibly stopping people from using incandescent lights, multiple megawatts will be saved, PER CITY, in the EU.

If you're concerned about symbolics, the witch hunt against standby mode on consumer electronics is something that might give you more reason to get worked up about.

 

[Gubbi]

It's not symbolic. By forcibly stopping people from using incandescent lights, multiple megawatts will be saved, PER CITY, in the EU.

A quick Google reveals an estimated savings per year for the EU of 39 billion kwh. Total electricity consumption last year was 2.9 trillion kwh. That's a saving of 1.3%.

45% of electricity in the EU is produced by nuclear, wind, biomass or hydro. Add heating and transportation and the effect on the carbon foot print of the average EU citizen switching to CFLs is going to be in the noise.

But hey, a few politicians got a chance to look decisive and the rest of us can feel good about saving the world, so totally worth it.

Cheers

 

[KimB]

A quick Google reveals an estimated savings per year for the EU of 39 billion kwh. Total electricity consumption last year was 2.9 trillion kwh. That's a saving of 1.3%.

45% of electricity in the EU is produced by nuclear, wind, biomass or hydro. Add heating and transportation and the effect on the carbon foot print of the average EU citizen switching to CFLs is going to be in the noise.

But hey, a few politicians got a chance to look decisive and the rest of us can feel good about saving the world, so totally worth it.

Cheers

I don't think anybody reasonably expects lighting to have a dramatic effect on total power savings. But it really is a no-brainer when you look at the cost of using incandescent bulbs.

 

[Grall]

Gubbi, I really don't know what you're on about. This is a clear cost/environment benefit, any way you choose to look at it. 1.3% of EU (500+ million people's worth of consumers) equals full output of quite a few heavy-duty power plants, energy that with incandescents would just turn straight into useless heat.

I'm sure you'll agree we can use that electricity for better things if you just stop being so damn obstinate.

 

[Blazkowicz]

here's a great website written about energy and carbon issues, I found out about its english version recently ; it was written by an engineer and there a lots of articles that don't bother to be reluctant telling the truth about actual figures and orders of magnitude and rebound effect.

so here's the page that deals with the CFL lights (and talks about lot of stuff), and the stakes are not high, we're dealing with 3% of household electricity use or 1% of total energy use!
http://www.manicore.com/anglais/documentation_a/savings.html

it is symbolic, or even is a liability if you follow the official tune (keeping all parts of pseudo middle class western lifestyle intact)

(I was quite beaten to the point, didn't reload the thread )

 

[zed]

That's a saving of 1.3%.

hey youve convinced me, 1.3% is a decent percentage for such an easy minor thing, why hasnt this been done years ago!

Actually I think here in NZ they were getting phased out by the last government, though the current government came in & stopped that PC nonsense like the PC nonsense of banning the sale of junkfood in school tuckshops.
Yes the government was caught up with the anti-PC hysteria from a few years ago, when any idea no matter how logical it was wouldnt see the light of day if it had a hint of PCness to it.

 

[KimB]

here's a great website written about energy and carbon issues, I found out about its english version recently ; it was written by an engineer and there a lots of articles that don't bother to be reluctant telling the truth about actual figures and orders of magnitude and rebound effect.

so here's the page that deals with the CFL lights (and talks about lot of stuff), and the stakes are not high, we're dealing with 3% of household electricity use or 1% of total energy use!
http://www.manicore.com/anglais/documentation_a/savings.html

it is symbolic, or even is a liability if you follow the official tune (keeping all parts of pseudo middle class western lifestyle intact)

(I was quite beaten to the point, didn't reload the thread )

I don't see it as symbolic. It's just an easy, no-brainer improvement. Usually you don't get much out of such easy improvements.

 

[AlphaWolf]

Lol, that's bullshit. Pseudo-science at best, if not outright fraud. I bet what you're experiencing yourself is 100% placebo btw. Without testing you in a proper double-blind study there's no way you or anyone else can draw any conclusions about the REAL effects on you of switching light source.

No.

 

[Frank]

Is it permanent, or will he be allowed back in 2 weeks or somesuch?

We don't have enough euthenistic right-wing tits around here after Russ, Vince and all those guys left. Hell, Epic's MIA pretty much all the time too nowadays.

Definitely! It's no fun if everyone agrees on the major issues. The more, the merrier.

 

[Frank]

Actually he stalked my twitter , used google maps and foursquare to post a picture of my parents house and was trying to hack my emails and get more personal information.

Hopefully he isn't allowed back. I don't mind insults thrown against me but I think we all agree thats a little to far to go.

Ah, yes. I agree. That's definitely going too far.

 

[KimB]

No.

Sorry, but you're not going to get a headache from the light receptors in your eyes receiving, on average, ever so slightly different amplitudes of various frequencies.

 

[Frank]

Can anyone recoomend a good LED bulb that doesn't cost $30-$40 bucks. I have a small light behind my monitors to help fight off fatigue with my eyes ( after my lasik surgery my doctor sugsted it) since its on so much i was hoping to get an led bulb but at current prices its a bit to much.

Osram and Philips are good, but a bit expensive. Then again, as Grall said: they don't break. So they're money well spend. On the other hand, I'm also waiting for them to become a bit cheaper as well.

There are cheaper ones, but you shouldn't buy them. It's easy to find out if they're good, however.

As of now, the high power LEDs are 1 Watt. Osram and Philips use them as such. So, 8 Watts = 8 LEDs. The cheap ones however use the same LEDs, but run them at 2 Watt. That's not good, they become hot and break down over time.

Also, if you use AC ones, the electronics inside the cheap ones are inferior to the good ones, and have a far lower MTBF.

 

[Frank]

a) Fluorescent bulbs last a lot longer.
b) You save money on power.

If we assume the energy cost is 8c per kilowatt hour (a very rough average, from here), then that bulb will, over its expected lifetime of 12,000 hours, save $45 in electricity costs.

Strangely enough, that only works if you seldom turn them off and they're decently build (again, Osram and Philips).

The cheap ones don't last that long, and if you use them in the toilet, where they're turned on and off very often, they tend to last a lot shorter than your regular light bulb.

 

[Frank]

A quick Google reveals an estimated savings per year for the EU of 39 billion kwh. Total electricity consumption last year was 2.9 trillion kwh. That's a saving of 1.3%.

45% of electricity in the EU is produced by nuclear, wind, biomass or hydro. Add heating and transportation and the effect on the carbon foot print of the average EU citizen switching to CFLs is going to be in the noise.

But hey, a few politicians got a chance to look decisive and the rest of us can feel good about saving the world, so totally worth it.

Cheers

I agree. While CFL and LED makes sense on some locations (where you use them a lot), regular light bulbs still make the most sense and are the most environmentally friendly ones on locations where they're rarely used or switched on and off often. Although you could use LEDs for the latter as well.