Geometry~Vertex hardware in Nintendo Revolution system?

[London Geezer]

why cuz they emplyed ati who bought artx to make the video chip for xbox 2?? rofl. and no re4 doesnt look better than anything on xbox.

Opinions vary but, gamespot and ign have have said RE4 is the best looking console game to date.

The problem lies in whether it is the best looking game because of its technical merits or because of its artistic design.
My guess, a mix of the 2.
It's not the most "advanced" game to date, it's "one of - " but being coupled to very good artistic design (not the best, but one of -), it looks like the best looking game to date. And remember, it looks like the best looking game ever to the reviewer. What does it look like to you?

 

[Teasy]

Apple?

Mac's don't have embedded video ram.. so there

 

[London Geezer]

Apple?

Mac's don't have embedded video ram.. so there

But they have ATI. And they're cute and small and "stylish" (to some people).

Seriously, it's unarguable that the GC itself drew some of its aspects to the Big Apple. It's all a big family. Very incestuous.

 

[Sonic]

So MS received ideas from Nintendo in regards to an efficient console design. Nintendo got that from SEGA and the Dreamcast. SEGA got that from Sony and the PS1. The list goes on and on.


The hardware going into Revolution will be very felixble in what it does. It will have both massive fillrate and massive polygong crunching capabilities. It's not just about the quality of the pixel, it's more about the quality of the pixel on the polygon.


RE4 is a damn good looking game. I wouldn't call it the best looking game to date but definitely in the top 5. If it hepls the GCN sales then I'm all for it.

 

[Teasy]

So MS received ideas from Nintendo in regards to an efficient console design. Nintendo got that from SEGA and the Dreamcast. SEGA got that from Sony and the PS1. The list goes on and on.

Dreamcast and PS1 were nothing a like. AFAICS there's absolutely no sign of ideas being passed down from PS1 to DC. I really don't think Sony could teach SEGA much about how to design an efficient console (rather the other way around). They could certainly teach them a lesson in PR though

Dreamcast and GC were also totally different designs as well. So no I don't think many (if any) idea's past from DC to GC either.

 

[Teasy]

But they have ATI. And they're cute and small and "stylish" (to some people).

I'm not sure why we're talking about this But the only real link between GC and Apple is Gekko AFAICS (after all surely Apple have Nvidia as well don't they?.. or do they?). I'm sure GC's cute look is down to the fact that its a Nintendo console rather then any connection with Apple due to having a similar CPU. But who knows where anyone gets any influence for anything I suppose. They may have been influenced by Apple case designs without even knowing it

 

[persiannight]

You are kidding when you say the RE4 looks better than anything on XBOX right??? I'd rate DOA Ultimate, Halo 2 and Riddick above RE4 and I have the game.

 

[hovz]

seeing as how the xbox is more powerful and has better looking games id say no.

You've lost me here. What are you saying no too?

they learned that from nintendo? and where are u getting this from, because xbox2 will be nothing like the gamecube.

MS are using ATI/IBM and XBox 2 will also use embedded ram. There's also talk of MS wanting to design XBox2 so that it doesn't lose any money per console (sound familiar yet? )

so any company who doesnt wanna lose money on a console is taking inspiration from nintendo?? ROFL. by your logic sony is trying to make the ps3 more like xbox, since they contracted nvidia for their video chip right? logic at its best here folks!!!!!! :?

 

[London Geezer]

so any company who doesnt wanna lose money on a console is taking inspiration from nintendo?? ROFL. by your logic sony is trying to make the ps3 more like xbox, since they contracted nvidia for their video chip right? logic at its best here folks!!!!!! :?

Hey, they must have their reasons! I mean, maybe losing 4billion dollars and get away with it is, like, a cool thing in the world of global corporations Executives. I mean, who cares about profits when you can just dip into the country's trillion dollars debt!! Credit cards credit cards credit cards!!! That's what it's all about! Plastic!

 

[Teasy]

hovz

I didn't say MS has been influenced by GC just because they're aiming for cost effectivness for XBox2. Its a collection of similarities, which I made perfectly clear in my last post. Singling out only one part of an argument and ignoring the rest so its easier to discredit is not helpful to this discussion. Oh and please for the love of sweet zombie jeesus stop this ROFL LOL crap in every single post..

 

[London Geezer]

ROTFBMBLOLMGISFLOOLLL!!

 

[Teasy]

Nooooooooooooo!

 

[_phil_]

I'd rate DOA Ultimate, Halo 2 and Riddick above RE4

Are Tech freaks people that have patched all their non existant artistical sensibility for hardware superiority praise ?

 

[London Geezer]

I'd rate DOA Ultimate, Halo 2 and Riddick above RE4

Are Tech freaks people that have patched all their non existant artistical sensibility for hardware superiority praise ?

Yes.

 

[Sonic]

Teasy, I said efficient console design. I said nothing about actual hardware going inside the console. Efficiency in a console doesn't have to be through ATI or embedded memory. You saying that MS took Nintendo's philosophy with Xenon is just like me saying Nintendo took SEGA's philsophy for gCN with Dreamcast. Efficiency through and throughout.

 

[Acert93]

hovz

I didn't say MS has been influenced by GC just because they're aiming for cost effectivness for XBox2. Its a collection of similarities, which I made perfectly clear in my last post. Singling out only one part of an argument and ignoring the rest so its easier to discredit is not helpful to this discussion.

Teasy, in some of the other Xenon leaked spec/patent threads there has been some discussion of the CPU/GPU interface how it is very similar to how the Gekko/Flipper functioned. So on a design level there are also some similarities (if the leaks are correct). But then again, in some people's eyes Nintendo cannot do anything right

And some good points overall in this thread about the "looks". Graphics is part technology, part art direction/setting, part artistic skill, and part "cool" factor. You could even throw in things like game genre/style (massive open ended FPS and a Figher will have different limitations) and art asset variety/level design. Even interactivity with the environment and physics impact how we look at the graphics. Is Myst better looking than HL2? Depends where the focus on the gamer is.

Many aspects of "best graphics" are subjective to some degree. But without question RE4 is a top flight console game. It seems RE4 gets under the skin of die hard fans of another ~18M selling "mature" console.

 

[Fox5]

Well, RE4 does have some things going for it graphically....
High polygon count, looks like it might even be higher than halflife 2.
Fairly good texturing.
Incredible shadowing and lighting. Yay to soft shadows and self shadowing, and the flame and fog effects look very impressive.
But it has some negatives as well, such as...
No bump mapping. I bet if the shadowing and lighting was dropped it could have had bump mapping, assuming the cube had enough memory for it. But what point is there in bump mapping without good lighting?
Low framerate, not even 100% stable 30 fps, but pretty close.
I don't think I've yet seen more than 3 or 4 light sources on screen at once.(and I'm sure shadows are limited as well)
Low resolution. Is gamecube's fillrate so low that they had to cut off a 3rd of the screen with black bars?

And if we compare it to metroid prime it halves the framerate for shadowing and better lighting. If we compare it to halo 2 it loses bump mapping and shininess for better textures and polygon count. Against halflife 2 it loses bump mapping and shininess for a higher polygon count and better shadowing. And against doom 3(xbox) is loses bump mapping to have more shadows and lighting on screen at once and a higher polygon count, not that RE4's shadowing and lighting model is comparable to doom 3 but I won't fault it for having ambient light.

 

[AlNom]

How's the facial animation with RE4?

Low resolution. Is gamecube's fillrate so low that they had to cut off a 3rd of the screen with black bars?

648ish MPixels/sec? Something like that...

edit: corrected

162Mhz with 4 pipes

 

[Fox5]

How's the facial animation with RE4?

Low resolution. Is gamecube's fillrate so low that they had to cut off a 3rd of the screen with black bars?

648ish MPixels/sec? Something like that...

edit: corrected

162Mhz with 4 pipes

It's not as good as halflife 2, but it's more than just a texture or a poorly hinged low polygon jaw that moves so it's pretty good.

 

[Megadrive1988]

if anything, Dolphin/Gamecube was derived or at least inspired by the work done on the M2 and especially MX chipsets by 3DO Systems aka CagEnt.

MX (M2's big brother) was supposed to consist of a fast PowerPC processor, 604, and a graphics processor with embedded / on-chip memory. sound familar?

MX (graphics) was designed mostly by ex-SGI engineers. so was ArtX's Flipper. hmmm.



we could say that both the Dolphin/Gamecube and the Xenon/Xbox Next both have their roots in MX, or at the least, take some inspiration from it.

both Nintendo and Microsoft have had a taste of Cagent's MX technology. Nintendo was working with them in 1997 with the intent to buy them outright. and Microsoft did in 1998 after the Nintendo-Cagent deal (via Samsung) fell through.