Geometry~Vertex hardware in Nintendo Revolution system?

[Megadrive1988]

okay I didn't want to mislead anyone with the title, there is no info in here about Revolution. just questions. this time, I'm wondering about the geometry or vertex pushing hardware that will be in Revolution's ATI- designed G|VPU, likely to be fabbed at NEC.

brief history of Nintendo's geometry hardware

SNES: Super FX (StarFox), SuperFX2

Nintendo 64: Reality Signal Processor within the Reality Co-Processor

Gamecube: 'XF' Triangle Transform Engine within Flipper.
(plus some assistance from Gekko's SIMD unit?)

Gamecube's main geometry engine in lower right of Flipper block diagram

looking at ATI's recent past and likely roadmap, they have been moving from 4 Vertex Shaders (R3xx) to 6 Vertex Shaders (R420/R480) to 8 Vertex Shaders (R520).

are they going to keep things simplifed for Nintendo's graphics processor like ArtX did with Flipper, or is ATI going to follow a more standard PC-centric approach, with parallel Vertex Shader units (assuming they're not unified) ??

or maybe Revolution's V & P processing units will be unified, as Xenon VPU supposedly is, and R6xx will be?


also, how does the XF ~ Triangle Transform Engine in Flipper (as well as any other vertex~geometry hardware i missed) compare to the twin Vertex Shaders in NV2A ?

 

[Dave Baumann]

They are moving away from separate-designs-from-separate-design-teams more towards a "single pool engineering resource and design" (just across multiple sites) - at a guess I would say that the design will reflect the dominant architecture they are using / moving towards at the time of its expected completion.

 

[ERP]

also, how does the XF ~ Triangle Transform Engine in Flipper (as well as any other vertex~geometry hardware i missed) compare to the twin Vertex Shaders in NV2A ?

In terms of speed or functionailty..

Not that it matters much it's cosiderably slower with much less functionality.

Both N and Sony paid a big price in transistors for thier embedded memory.

 

[AzBat]

They are moving away from separate designs from separate design teams more towards a "single pool engineering resource and design" (just across multiple sites) - at a guess I would say that the design will reflect the dominant architecture they are using / moving towards at the time of its expected completion.

Unified vertex and pixel shader engine capable of at least VS/PS 3.0++ and more likely VS/PS 4.0.

Sorry Dave, I couldn't resist.

Tommy McClain

 

[Megadrive1988]

also, how does the XF ~ Triangle Transform Engine in Flipper (as well as any other vertex~geometry hardware i missed) compare to the twin Vertex Shaders in NV2A ?

In terms of speed or functionailty..

Not that it matters much it's cosiderably slower with much less functionality.

Both N and Sony paid a big price in transistors for thier embedded memory.

yes true, but they also gained alot in graphics memory bandwidth and usable fillrate (even though GC's peak fillrate is lower than Nv2A's)

 

[ERP]

Obviously, the question is was it the right trade off?

And I don't think there is a right answer to that one.

 

[Megadrive1988]

They are moving away from separate-designs-from-separate-design-teams more towards a "single pool engineering resource and design" (just across multiple sites) - at a guess I would say that the design will reflect the dominant architecture they are using / moving towards at the time of its expected completion.

well that reinforces that Revolution G|VPU will share basic technology pieces with R500 and R600, as you've indicated in the past.

 

[Guden Oden]

Obviously, the question is was it the right trade off?

No GC game really seem to be geometry-limited. Games like the Metroid Primes show that Flipper can draw some mighty complicated stuff without missing a beat. So I'd say that's a "yes".

 

[hovz]

seeing as how the xbox is more powerful and has better looking games id say no.

 

[Megadrive1988]

seeing as how the xbox is more powerful and has better looking games id say no.

dispite launching at the same time, Xbox is significantly newer technology than Gamecube. Flipper was created in 1998-2000. Xbox GPU was created 2000-2001.

 

[cybamerc]

seeing as how the xbox is more powerful and has better looking games id say no.

M$ has lost $4+ billion on Xbox. For Xbox 2 M$ has clearly looked at GameCube for inspiration. Also, RE4 looks better than anything on Xbox.

 

[hovz]

why cuz they emplyed ati who bought artx to make the video chip for xbox 2?? rofl. and no re4 doesnt look better than anything on xbox.

 

[rabidrabbit]

I guess it's somewhat a matter of taste, but imo too RE4 does look better than anything on any of the current consoles, I might go even as far as to say it looks better than any PC game too.
The very detailed character models, good art direction and quality animation do a lot for RE4's visual impact, even though it might not have as detailed textures and shiny effects as some other games.

 

[hovz]

saying re4 looks better than fry cry is ludacris. far cry is by far the best looking game to date.

 

[cybamerc]

hovz:

Nintendo's influence on Xbox 2 isn't just limited to M$' choice of partners (you forgot IBM). Nintendo showed them how to make a powerful, efficient and streamlined system that can also be profitable.

Also, Ludacris is a rapper. You mean ludicrous. And Far Cry, while having a nice renderer, is artistically challenged.

 

[hovz]

lol oh rly? they learned that from nintendo? and where are u getting this from, because xbox2 will be nothing like the gamecube.

and i meant ludacris.

 

[Teasy]

seeing as how the xbox is more powerful and has better looking games id say no.

You've lost me here. What are you saying no too?

they learned that from nintendo? and where are u getting this from, because xbox2 will be nothing like the gamecube.

MS are using ATI/IBM and XBox 2 will also use embedded ram. There's also talk of MS wanting to design XBox2 so that it doesn't lose any money per console (sound familiar yet? )

 

[London Geezer]

You've lost me here. What are you saying no too?

Yes.

MS are using ATI/IBM and XBox 2 will also use embedded ram. There's also talk of MS wanting to design XBox2 so that it doesn't lose any money per console (sound familiar yet? )

Apple?

 

[Nightz]

why cuz they emplyed ati who bought artx to make the video chip for xbox 2?? rofl. and no re4 doesnt look better than anything on xbox.

Opinions vary but, gamespot and ign have have said RE4 is the best looking console game to date.

 

[emerge]

and i meant ludacris.

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