Gaming in 8K and Beyond

[Entropy]

Well, yes. To clarify, I didn’t say that I thought spending the graphics resources available to a console to be spent rendering to an 8k resolution. (Although, given an 8k monitor, scaling to 8k might).
Just that there are reasons why various groups of consumers may not dismiss 8k resolution TVs as useless.
(I’m one of those weirdos that prefer any action gaming to be at high frame rates, and don’t ever game with settings on PC that doesn’t yield rock solid 60fps.)

8k TVs are already here, and will only drop in price going forward. Rather than dismissing them outright, it’s more meaningful to consider their implications. HDMI 2.1 with its support for variable frame rates (essentially G-sync/Freesync) is an example that most will welcome.

 

[lefantome]

I don't see any point in using lots of resources to render at 8K.

5K would be enough to supersample a 4K image and get finer details and better anti aliasing.

 

[HBRU]

I think PS5 will target same res in games as ps4pro but at solid, steady 60 hz... Ps5pro real 4k@60 hz...

 

[snc]

I hope developers will use checkerboard resolution on ps5 but target better graphics

 

[Flappy Pannus]

8k TVs are already here, and will only drop in price going forward. Rather than dismissing them outright, it’s more meaningful to consider their implications. HDMI 2.1 with its support for variable frame rates (essentially G-sync/Freesync) is an example that most will welcome.

They're "here" in the same sense they've been "here" for the past several years: Being shown at CES. As an actual viable consumer product that will have any degree of penetration to actually be considered by developers and console manufacturers? No. HDMI 2.1 is coming this year, and VRR TV's already exist. They're not remotely comparable.

Will 8K TV's hit the market eventually? Sure. There will be a point where the manufacturing process of such TV's will be refined enough where it might actually be more expensive to keep a separate line going for 4K - and I'm not even in the camp that feels anything beyond 4K is necessary (I can certainly still see pixel shimmering with my 55" at native 4k, larger screens which are becoming cheaper by the day it would be even more obvious). With advanced upscale techniques seemingly coming ever year as well, even the content 'problem' may not necessarily be one - AI-assisted up-scaling techniques may advance enough where they can make a meaningful difference even with 4K source material. But this won't happen in any timeframe where the next console generation has to consider it.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

and I'm not even in the camp that feels anything beyond 4K is necessary

'Unnecessary", rather

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Rather than dismissing them outright, it’s more meaningful to consider their implications.

What are their implications for next-gen console gaming? Some simpler games may benefit from great huge-canvas multiplayer. Are there any more?

 

[HBRU]

8k screens will have maybe really good upscaler inside that somehow will convince someone to buy them... Specially for big sized screens.

 

[Entropy]

They're "here" in the same sense they've been "here" for the past several years: Being shown at CES. As an actual viable consumer product that will have any degree of penetration to actually be considered by developers and console manufacturers? No. HDMI 2.1 is coming this year, and VRR TV's already exist. They're not remotely comparable.

Will 8K TV's hit the market eventually? Sure. There will be a point where the manufacturing process of such TV's will be refined enough where it might actually be more expensive to keep a separate line going for 4K - and I'm not even in the camp that feels anything beyond 4K is necessary (I can certainly still see pixel shimmering with my 55" at native 4k, larger screens which are becoming cheaper by the day it would be even more obvious). With advanced upscale techniques seemingly coming ever year as well, even the content 'problem' may not necessarily be one - AI-assisted up-scaling techniques may advance enough where they can make a meaningful difference even with 4K source material. But this won't happen in any timeframe where the next console generation has to consider it.

A I said, I could have bought a Samsung 65" 8k for $3500 two months ago. LG has a line-up with full HDMI 2.1 for 2019, one of which at this point in time is an 8k OLED. And more significantly, Chinese panel manufacturers have been gearing up for production of lower cost 8k panels for 2019. I would guess that there will be a push to offer a wide range of products before the 2020 Tokyo Olympics which will be recorded and broadcast in 8k, which will then result in much lower prices in 2021. Seeing as the next generation of consoles are likely to be launched late 2019 or in 2020, and can be assumed to have at least the longevity of the current gen (7 years or so), being able to output to 8k screens is a given.

 

[Entropy]

What are their implications for next-gen console gaming? Some simpler games may benefit from great huge-canvas multiplayer. Are there any more?

Implications for next-gen console gaming are modest. I don't believe that targeting 8k will be deemed worthwhile over upscaling 4k. But I do believe that the next-gen consoles will support HDMI 2.1 and variable frame rates (implying that frame rates issues may result on displays that don't support variable frame rates), and may go for HDR output if possible.

 

[HBRU]

2023 or 2024 there will be the "pro" interaction... Maybe at 5 nm... 2020 console don't need to target in any sense 8k ... So few 8k tv around. And even then I hope they spend resources on something different than 8k

 

[vipa899]

For remasters like that Rez infinite game 8k or even 16k is a nice thing. Consoles arent there yet, first 60fps @ faux 4k.

 

[Flappy Pannus]

Seeing as the next generation of consoles are likely to be launched late 2019 or in 2020, and can be assumed to have at least the longevity of the current gen (7 years or so), being able to output to 8k screens is a given.

Well of course, that comes with the HDMI 2.1 spec. "Being able to output" and actually be "used by developers in any meaningful capacity" are quite different things.

 

[Karmaprof]

2023 or 2024 there will be the "pro" interaction... Maybe at 5 nm... 2020 console don't need to target in any sense 8k ... So few 8k tv around. And even then I hope they spend resources on something different than 8k

Did some Sony Officials not say that the the Ps4 Pro was only a exception and not happen again? For me i dont need 8k , it makes only sense for really big Screens , Projectors and so on. Not so for 47" or 55" Tvs. Stable Framerates , 60Fps , and vivid Colors are more important for me in Games than 8k.

 

[Cyan]

8k gaming would be an absolute disgrace. My eyes hurt just thinking about all the shimmering and pixel crawl you'd get at that resolution, or the absolute vaseline smeared lenses look of modern "Anti Aliasing" if you can even call these blur-fest solutions used today real AA.
I could never ever game at such a resolution. Wake me up when we are at 32k, although honestly the ideal would be 64k but I'm willing to compromise.

hahahah, that's a good one.

New 8k models from Samsung are coming this year (2019), HDR10+ QLED screens. The most expensive one is a 8k, 98" model which costs 60000€. The 65" of that model costs 4999€

 

[HBRU]

who is going spend 5000 usd / euros for gaming ?!? Nobody... Or almost.

 

[Entropy]

who is going spend 5000 usd / euros for gaming ?!? Nobody... Or almost.

People might want to use their screens for other things than gaming?
Anyway, the cheapest I’ve seen for 65” at 8k is $3000 without tax. Production is increasing in anticipation of (among other things) the Tokyo Olympics next year, which will bring prices down, particularly after the Olympics. I might pick up a fully HDMI 2.1 compliant screen around 75”, if they have dropped below $2000 at Black Friday 2020, for reasons totally unrelated to gaming.
If that hasn’t been achieved by then, I’ll simply wait until my conditions are fulfilled. It is not as if we are compelled to buy.

 

[Kyyla]

Even 4k has a significant problem of diminishing returns. 8K is just there to separate the money from the fool.

I'm sure there are some way too rich people that truly want a 100" screen, but that is a small number.

 

[Entropy]

Even 4k has a significant problem of diminishing returns. 8K is just there to separate the money from the fool.

I'm sure there are some way too rich people that truly want a 100" screen, but that is a small number.

There is a shitload of technical reasons why you might want to have higher resolution output media than today, all of which are irrelevant if you sit far away and with your back turned.
How much effort shall I expend explaining these things to people who either just don't want to hear that their 4k set may not actually be the end all and be all, or who simply use their set in such a way, today and for evermore, that it simply isn't relevant?

Yes, for todays typical usage, 8k is irrelevant. But there are two conditions in that statement.

 

[Kyyla]

Don't waste your effort. I don't want a home with 100" super high res HDR screens dominating every room.