Game UI

[Arwin]

AFAIK, AC2 (Assassins Creed 2) did not use Scaleform. It used the actual Adobe Flash Player which renders in software and is MUCH slower than Scaleform's hardware accelerated solution.

Many games using Scaleform can be found here:
http://www.scaleform.com/gamesusing

I've played a lot of the ones on that page and they all seem to have really nice and fast UI... just my opinion.

Thanks, interesting stuff. I wasn't aware of this platform at all, not to mention how widely used it is.

 

[Fafalada]

It didn't use any Adobe code either...

It used the actual Adobe Flash Player which renders in software and is MUCH slower than Scaleform's hardware accelerated solution.

No and No.

Flash is not that bad

Yes it is.
I've worked with 4 different 'optimized' flash renderers over the course of last 4 years (one of which I partially wrote myself, Scaleform and 2 others that both have comparable backing to Scaleform in terms of development investment), and they all fall to the same problems (most of which are listed throughout this thread, so I won't go over it again).
Yes, there's hundreds of shipped titles that use this approach, but it comes at a cost. Hell there were certain major titles released in the past where Flash-UI cost them 50% framerate by the time they shipped.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Which leads us to wondering, why isn't there a non-Flash vector-based UI specifically for games? Surely all these developers using Flash would love to have something that does the same job without sucking?!

 

[gametap]

AC2 did use Adobe's player

It didn't use any Adobe code either...

What makes you say that?

The credits specifically sight Adobe Flash Player being used... Sorry dude, but you're wrong.

 

[gametap]

I seriously doubt Scaleform Flash has major performance problems if so many game developers are adopting it and shipping great games... I mean, even Epic's taking it for Gears 3 and all future games and engines. I guess Scaleform has Sweeney and everyone fooled.

Sounds like you're a Flash hater. Let me guess, we should all be coding UI in C++?? No wait, how about assembly? That's a good use of dev time.

Reality is, Flash can be fast if you know how to use it correctly. If not, it can be very slow, just like anything. Scaleform's website shows off how to make a cool 3D HUD that takes <1ms per frame, which is perfectly acceptable for 99% of games being made, even 60 FPS titles.

If you're interested in seeing the performance of Flash UI, check out UDK when it ships with Scaleform soon. Again, I'm sure many will abuse it and bring UDK to its knees making crazy Flash content, but that's user error not Scaleform, Epic or Adobe's fault.

 

[ERP]

I seriously doubt Scaleform Flash has major performance problems if so many game developers are adopting it and shipping great games... I mean, even Epic's taking it for Gears 3 and all future games and engines. I guess Scaleform has Sweeney and everyone fooled.

Decisions aren't purely based on performance, most game developers choose to use flash based on the mis-conception that they can just throw artists at the UI.
The way performance varies in a game over the development cycle, it's easy not to notice how much time the UI is actually taking until towards the end of a project, at which point you don't get to rethink the decision.
I've shipped 3 games with Flash UI's, after my experience the first time, it would never be my first choice, but if you don't have an alternative, your timeline and resources more often than not dictate your technology decisions.
My experience is that in the end using Flash costs MORE dev resources than custom solutions, although it usually results in a more polished end product.

 

[zed]

My experience is that in the end using Flash costs MORE dev resources than custom solutions, although it usually results in a more polished end product.

Yes this is my experience as well (Ive used flash for a few years). Thank god that with apples decisions of late the company I work part time for is having doubts about flash now.

 

[Kasersky]

AFAIK, AC2 (Assassins Creed 2) did not use Scaleform. It used the actual Adobe Flash Player which renders in software and is MUCH slower than Scaleform's hardware accelerated solution.

Many games using Scaleform can be found here:
http://www.scaleform.com/gamesusing

I've played a lot of the ones on that page and they all seem to have really nice and fast UI... just my opinion.

thats not a complete list, for example Lost Planet 2 uses scaleform and it wasnt mentioned in that list, wiki actually has a more complete list. which also includes Assassin's Creed II

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scaleform#2009

 

[TheWretched]

Wikipedia is by no means a viable source...

As I said before, the credits in AC2 say Adobe Flash

 

[gametap]

Yep, looks like AC2 was already removed from the Scaleform wiki page.

Wiki is not reliable. Anyone can edit it. Someone probably saw Flash in the credits and added it to the Scaleform wiki... who knows.

 

[patsu]

http://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/TalR...ed_Developing_for_Depth_Camera_Interfaces.php

Lessons learned developing for depth camera interfaces

By Tal Raviv, Head of Production, Side-kick

Over the past three years we have developed games and demos for depth camera interfaces.

We grew with the technology capabilities and learned by testing interface ideas including ones that were marked for years as"bad".

We are now working on multiple projects that focus on the depth camera as their interface.

The new motion interface is not a gimmick., it is a major revolution that has to be part of the game to succeed. Players should feel natural using it even if it’s their first time playing and they can achieve that with the right design.

We wanted to share a few lessons learned, production wise, in hopes that it will help and establish a knowledge pool for everyone who is going to develop for these exciting new motion based interfaces.

...

 

[Fafalada]

The Flash mention in credits is a license, not a physical player. Even ScaleForm (to my knowledge) had to license it at some point - and they originally started as a reverse engineered effort(like many in-game Flash implementations, to be fair).

Anyway, to reiterate, AC2 uses an internal solution(it's in the credits, too), not anything 3rd party.

 

[patsu]

Burnout Paradise UI discussion:
http://gamasutra.com/blogs/GlennWhite/20100713/5558/Burnout_A_Paradise_Interface.php

Any menus during action and gameplay take the player out of the experience. The more time the player spends away from the game and in these menus the less immersed they will be. Criterion's Burnout Paradise attempts to rectify this by keeping you in the game as much as possible by doing away with the pesky menus.

It does this by turning the world into your menu. Instead of chosing your next race from a list you find them at various traffic lights across the world. Rev the engine and wheel spin in front of them and you are off!

...

 

[patsu]

Scaleform brings UI to Kinect games:
http://www.develop-online.net/news/36442/Scaleform-brings-UI-to-Kinect-games#after_ad

Scaleform is already becoming a popular choice among Kinect game developers, the company behind Flash-based UI tech has said.

Four of Kinect’s launch titles used Scaleform GFx for its display, menus and HUDs, the firm said. The interested developers include UK studios Rare and Frontier Developments as well as BigPark and Good Science.

...

The company’s UI tech is already widely used across game studios, with further integration with 3D gaming already planned.

 

[swym]

Well, IIRC at least some of these games run on unreal engine, which now includes Scaleform in the pipeline. So this kind of makes sense.