If he's admitted to it, they should probably drop the 'alleged' from the shower incident. If she can continue beings friends after that incident, that incident must have happened!
GAF implodes after owner Evilore is accused of sexual assault
- Thread starter mrcorbo
- Start date
If what's said in that Kotaku article is true about her staying friendly with him and even having a physical relationship with him I find the whole thing ridiculous.
It's the sanctimonious mods who should be blamed for bringing neogaf down.Those same mods have been promoting a culture of guilty until proven innocent and over reacting.
It's the sanctimonious mods who should be blamed for bringing neogaf down.Those same mods have been promoting a culture of guilty until proven innocent and over reacting.
There's probably no doubt the incident happened but my point being if she had a relationship with him afterward is the incident a horrible thing done by him like the mods on gaf say or just a miss reading of body language and him making an embarrassing mistake.
The mods collectively dumping the site over that
But that's what Evilore has wanted. The Mods and admins are under his direction as is the shadowy/lack of transparency manner by which they moderate.
Mods go on power trips, ban people and there is no contention allowed. Gaf imploded due it's years of build up of holier than thou treatment of it's userbase. The harassment story just seems to have been the trigger point.
But that's what Evilore has wanted. The Mods and admins are under his direction as is the shadowy/lack of transparency manner by which they moderate.
Mods go on power trips, ban people and there is no contention allowed. Gaf imploded due it's years of build up of holier than thou treatment of it's userbase. The harassment story just seems to have been the trigger point.
Thinking about it you are a hundred percent correct. He is just feeling that unwarranted justice he has been promoting... You now what they say about karma.
Some people suffer from that prisoner syndrome where they fall in love with their captors.
That doesn't mean what he did wasn't wrong because they had a physical relationship after. People are speaking out because they feel safe to, not because they are trying to ruin people.
Victims did not feel safe about it before and some victims don't register it as sexual assault/harassment until they are taught to recognize it as that. Shit happens. Some people just let it go as it's simpler to let go and continue with your life than to report it and share your experiences with the world.
That doesn't mean what he did wasn't wrong because they had a physical relationship after. People are speaking out because they feel safe to, not because they are trying to ruin people.
Victims did not feel safe about it before and some victims don't register it as sexual assault/harassment until they are taught to recognize it as that. Shit happens. Some people just let it go as it's simpler to let go and continue with your life than to report it and share your experiences with the world.
D
Deleted member 13524
Guest
This is super dangerous, though.
Which one is more probable? The years-old memory of a person who was drunk being vivid enough to redefine the episode as sexual harassment, or a mass social media trending movement serving as motivation to willfully change the narrative into a lie?
If I had to take into consideration the courage and generally unintended attention/coverage of coming out with something like this, together with the supposed-harasser's previous history, I'd say I the probabilities would favor the plaintiff.
But quite honestly, the woman claiming they had a physical relationship after the harassment episode changes it all.
This is if Kotaku's statements are indeed true, of course.
good to know. NeoGAF is pretty much unique. Plus they seem to want the successor to be built in a different way, using the lessons they learnt with the original.
It's not dangerous - just a possibility. We shouldn't filter out possibilities based on whether we like them or not. They need to be entertained and proven/dismissed to come to the truth.
This is THE most important point - you don't have to. I don't. Only the would-be victim and legal system and associated parties need to. Doesn't stop everyone jumping in with opinions without really weighing the evidence though, or using rather flimsy reasoning to weigh the evidence. See the recently taken-out-of-context Tweet for how totally wrong people can be! IMO the most important thing is for people to stop feeling they should be judging everyone. The take-home of the #metoo movement is that people can and do act like jerks and we should understand why and learn what to do to stop it (an incredibly complex problem in truth). It shouldn't be about dragging people into the lime-light. Those who have done serious, criminal wrong should definitely be prosecuted when it's fairly proven, but every time some witch-hunt like this starts, it ends badly with too much collateral damage. When the pendulum swings, it always swings too far.
Rock Paper Scissors Consoles
Religion Politics & Socioeconomic Climate I believe it's an opt-in thing, but I'm not sure if that was fixed or not.
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Deleted member 13524
Guest
In your apparently ideal scenario, if the would-be victim doesn't make a formal complaint with the authorities (which involves making a case go public, spending money on lawyers, going to court several times, explaining the details of the situation to a jury in front of you that may or may not sway your way, if the jury doesn't sway your way then your life may be ruined, etc.), then the would-be crime will always go not only unpunished but also easily swept under the rug.
Isn't this exactly what the #metoo movement stands against?
Sure, armchair judgments are a terrible method, but isn't your scenario even worse?
This is one of the two problems I have with internet vigilantism. No due process. The other is no there are no standards for the level of punishment that's appropriate for a given transgression. So we have alleged transgressions leading to people feeling they now have carte-blanche to ruin peoples lives with no regard for the consequences and if when people either advocate for the need for proof or question whether the punishment fits the crime they are shouted down as being unsympathetic to the alleged victim or overly sympathetic to the alleged perpetrator. I found the implications for this horrifying.
Silent_Buddha
Legend
Yes, Western society has fostered a climate where rational discussion of such things is taboo and encourages people to jump to the defense of women claiming sexual harassment. I like to think that in most cases there is truth to the accuser's claims. However, that isn't always the case, and there is almost nothing the accused can do to redeem themselves in the face of a hurricane of accusations from the media et al. And through that shaping how many people will think about and view the accused in the future.
Just recently in the USA, for example, there was a review looking into how to better proceed with rape accusations in places of higher education (colleges and universities). The people overseeing it sought testimony from not only the accusers (victims) and administration of said institutions but also the testimony of the accused. There was a huge outroar from many in the media as well as SJWs and women's rights groups that the accused should not be allowed a voice.
What? Considering that the accused (that were invited to give their testimony) had been found innocent of the charges, many wanted them to be put into a box and ignored. Who cares about the accused, right? According to these people, the accused have no rights. It's guilty as soon as you are accused.
Something has gone seriously wrong when the whole "innocent until proven guilty" foundation of the US law system gets short circuited as soon as someone is accused of sexual harassment or rape. Even murderers have more people standing up for their rights to be "innocent until proven guilty."
Regards,
SB
Yup. This is absolutely a problem in our societies that needs to be addressed. There are big problems with the approach some are taking, though.
I haven't proposed a scenario and you're reading my observations as a remit on how to handle sexual assault claims. I presented a balancing counter-point that people shouldn't be 'tried' by the public based on little more than gut reactions to sound bites and uncorroborated assertions, which represents nothing about a final perspective from me. I made no assertion about the legal systems efficacy with dealing in problems nor placed my faith in it doing justice. The legal system was invented to structure disputes and attempt to identify exactly what happened to come to a fair response, which is why a 'legal' solution should be sought. The alternative is self-made righteousness and pistols-at-dawn.
People aren't able to step back. For example, your description of the alternative is pretty skewed, suggesting it's one-way bad for the alleged victim. You've already aligned yourself with a side and will argue it and will interpret opinions from that perspective. Console wars, fanboyism, nationalism, arguments over which side of the egg to break - it's all the same and all an impossible mess.
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