Gabe Newell: Valve will release its own console-like PC

[Deleted member 13524]

There's a small interview at destructoid:

Yes, Valve is in cahoots with Xi3 Corporation, and there's something neat on the horizon, just as we heard earlier today. But the new tiny box form factor computers debuted at CES this week are not necessarily the long rumored Steam Box. That's something that's just a bit farther down the road, unfortunately.

But we can use what is being shown off at CES as a sort of rough preview of the upcoming Xi3 and Valve collaboration. The development platform is codenamed Piston. (Get it?)

Xi3 confirmed that they are working with Valve on developing a platform that will be based their 7 Series modular computers. These look a lot like a machine we saw last year at CES, though the innards are more powerful. The top configurations feature quad-core processors and high-end ATi graphics. The 7A in its top configuration sports a 3.2 GHz quad-core processor and HD 7660G ATi GPU. Memory of this computer is spec'd at 8GB DDR3, and SSD storage is rated at 12 Gb/sec.

Will PC gamers be happy with the horsepower of whatever comes out of project Piston? It's hard to say, and Xi3 isn't confirming any kind of specifications yet. We were told that the 7 Series would readily serve as an engineering workstation. If that's really the case, then the 7A alone would surely be up to snuff as a gaming box, wouldn't it? The Piston, which is based on the 7 series, could be even better.

One Xi3 rep seemed to be telling us as best as he could that there should be no concerns as far as gaming power goes: "Because Valve has invested in us, they now have a vested interest in making sure this would be a good product for gaming."

He continued, "And we have no intention of producing something that wouldn't be up to snuff."

If you want even more of a hint of what to expect from Piston, know that that the 7A consumes 40 Watts. The smallest of Xi3's line is called the Zero, and at 15 Watts it can drive 2 HD monitors, can can go up to 2500 x 1600 resolution. Draw from that what you will.

Price? Again, nothing in the way of confirmation, but that Zero mentioned above will be announced at $399 this week. The 7A will top out at $999 in its top configuration.

Finally, Xi3 is not using the name 'Steam Box' while discussing this project. They don't mind throwing around "Piston" at all, though. When I called their upcoming device a 'Steam Box' during our chat, one Xi3 rep said, "You called it that. Not me."

Although a full Trinity is better than PS360 and Wii U, this is still a lot worse than whatever someone could come up with a ~$350 budget, at least for gaming.


What I'm hoping for is that there's still space for a module with a MXM graphics card, and the Steam-branded box won't be sold at those ridiculous $999.
I'd bet on a lot less I/Os (who would actually need 8 USB + 4 eSATA + 2 MiniDP + HDMI in a HTPC?!) and at least a discrete GPU based on either Cape Verde (512-640 GCN CUs) or GK107 (384 Kepler CUs).

My hopes are for a "mainboard" module with at least an Athlon II X4 7xx (2-module piledriver @65W) and a Cape Verde.

 

[Grall]

Is this thing built by the same people as were behind the OXO? That device was also pretty, yet overengineered and overpriced. It's curious how Valve could pick hardware which is even slower than a Mac Mini (well, except for graphics I suppose, depending on what CPU is packed into this thing), yet even more expensive. Of course, it might end up being cheaper than a thousand bucks...

*Edit: written prior to TT's clip right above, so my entire post may not apply to actual reality, lol.
*Edit 2: my preference would rather be quadcore haswell, paired with a NV GPU. AMD feels like a slowly dragged out, ongoing trainwreck these days, and the company's surely gonna go bust inside of a year or two.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

*Edit 2: my preference would rather be quadcore haswell, paired with a NV GPU. AMD feels like a slowly dragged out, ongoing trainwreck these days, and the company's surely gonna go bust inside of a year or two.

My preference would also fall to something like that (ivybridge would be fine too, at least for availability reasons), hence why the specs I mentioned were my "at least" hopes.

Nonetheless, I will be back to my original idea and claim that, if Clevo can make a 11.6" chassis for less than $850 with:

- 2-core/4-thread laptop Ivybridge with 35W TDP 2.3->3.3GHz
- Full GK107 with 384 Kepler CUs at 850MHz and 2GB dedicated DDR3 with 40W TDP
- 8GB DDR3 RAM
- 2.5" 750GB 5400RPM hard drive
- Cooling system for all that
- 11.6" 1366*768 screen (not needed)
- keyboard and touchpad (not needed)
- 46Wh battery (not needed)
- Card reader (not needed)
- Windows 7 Home Premium (needed, in case it's a Windows machine)

Then it would be feasible to get a similar gaming box, for the same size as that Xi3 A7, for much less than $999 and decent hardware for gaming maxed out at 720p or more.

Also, a GK107 would guarantee compatibility with Project Shield, which I believe would be for Valve's best interest.

 

[babybumb]

Valve isnt going to get to nosebleed hw business. Its a Apple macbook like pricing.. if course pc is cheaper but does not look as nice

Still would make more sense to just release a linux steam distro

 

[Dave Baumann]

Nope. The December survey shows that the DX11 GPUs with the most hits are nVidia Fermi GF114, AMD Juniper and Barts. Basically, discrete video cards ranging between $100 and $200.
Their charts even show more people using a higher-end GTX570 or a HD6950 than using Ivybridge's iGPU.

I think if you do more aggregation of the data it would show something quite different - there are quite a lot of product designations at the APU / IGP and Entry level discrete market.

You should also consider where Valve are making their money on titles they sell on Steam; although I don't have an insight I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that they are making more money from the "casual" (or XBOX Arcade level) titles they sell on Steam. Even many of the larger titles sold will are good on APU's at 1080p, and that's more than the case for Valves own titles currently. Tweaking some of the larger, triple-A, bleeding edge titles down from the max settings can still run fine (and probably look better than current consoles) at native 1080p on a Trinity platform.

 

[jonabbey]

Valve having both Michael Abrash and Jeri Ellsworth on board, I'm certainly interested to see what they eventually release. Interesting times.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

I think if you do more aggregation of the data it would show something quite different - there are quite a lot of product designations at the APU / IGP and Entry level discrete market.

You should also consider where Valve are making their money on titles they sell on Steam; although I don't have an insight I wouldn't be at all surprised to find that they are making more money from the "casual" (or XBOX Arcade level) titles they sell on Steam. Even many of the larger titles sold will are good on APU's at 1080p, and that's more than the case for Valves own titles currently. Tweaking some of the larger, triple-A, bleeding edge titles down from the max settings can still run fine (and probably look better than current consoles) at native 1080p on a Trinity platform.

So.. Trinity it is...


BTW, I went to the hardware survey numbers again and, from all video cards, I estimated that within the 63% of GPU names being mentioned, some 30% have a performance equal or inferior to Trinity's iGPU. This means the other 33% of the total GPUs have a higher performance than the iGPU.

We don't know what's in the other 37% though, but I wouldn't bet on a drastic change to be honest.

And this is counting with all the machines that haven't been upgraded for 5 years or more (I counted some "Intel HD Graphics" in there for the 30%).
If we go for recent machines (DX11 GPUs), there's a drastic change for much higher performance (and pricier) GPUs.

That said, I don't think it's much different from what I saw a couple of posts ago.
Nonetheless, it's Valve's decision if they want to go pretty instead of powerful.. And like the Wii U, I don't thing that's going to cut it.

 

[liolio]

I'm not sure where Steam is heading but it looks like that product goes closer and closer to my "not to do list":
It won't play the games I bought on Steam: checked
It could be less powerful than my Laptop; checked
It will still have to deal with x2 performance penalties vs consoles and low level and extensive optimizations: checked
Is unlikely to receive the same level of support as consoles and quiet possibly even PC.
It is going to be quiet expansive: checked
It comes with an OS that for all its merits more than often need ones to get its hand dirty: checked
We have no idea to which extend the underlying OS will be available to users, and how convenient navigate through it will be: checked
Gaming aside it is really like to not be as "functional" as say Apple-Google Tv /smart TV class of products: checked
Like the up coming consoles it looks like a not that glorified PC, that most likely and like the aforementioned products does less than a PC: checked

 

[Shifty Geezer]

Although a full Trinity is better than PS360 and Wii U, this is still a lot worse than whatever someone could come up with a ~$350 budget, at least for gaming.

If it's tiny and running at 40 watts, it'll be very poor economy as a gaming device. And if that is Valve's design, they clearly aren't trying to take on the consoles!

 

[joker454]

If that really is the steambox, it's going to be weak, and...not cheap, most likely. Playing a huge number of steam titles on such a small PC is going to be hugely unstisfactory for most gamers,

Maybe they aren't going after core gamers at all. They already have core gamers on pc with steam anyways and it's not like any dedicated steam box had any hope of winning them over. Think about it, it has the same heat and power restrictions as a console without the dedicated code optimization or high volume part orders as a console. So sitting side by side to a console it will be outgunned performance wise at the same price point and form factor, let alone sitting next to a pc which will utterly smoke it.

Perhaps this is a different idea, build a small cheap box that plays $5-$15 games as proof of concept, then from there expand the idea to having the hardware built into TV's and/or partner with cable companies to distribute games over their broadband internet then played on their tv from the couch. In that respect going with Linux makes sense since it all needs to be cheap and lean, and it doesn't have to run every steam game anyways. I've always felt the tv makers/providers needed a proper impulse purchase gaming portal as the ones they all seem to have now are total ass, plus they are all desperate for another revenue stream. This could be that gaming portal that works for the tv makers like Samsung or the content providers like the Time Warner, etc, as I imagine Valve would be easier to barter with compared to the likes of Apple or Microsoft.

 

[Deleted member 13524]

In the meanwhile, for the same $999, Razer offers us this:

Which comes with a Core i5, a discrete GK107, 4GB RAM and 64GB SSD. The game controllers are detachable and it becomes a Windows 8 tablet.

Why anyone would choose the Piston over this is beyond my comprehension.




Regarding the "but it's a casual box for casual games" excuse then I ask why the $999 price tag? The $99 OUYA is equally good for that and it costs 1/10th. Why the "we made it powerful enough because Steam asked us to" comment from the Xi3 dude if it's definitely not true if it's just a Trinity?

 

[Dave Baumann]

I note that Digital Trends article points to this specific unit as the development platform. I would say that there almost certainly has to be product changes for a consumer platform as the box photographed has a displayout that consists entirely of DP outputs (1x DP, 2x mDP); a consumer box almost certainly has to have HDMI.

 

[ERP]

I note that Digital Trends article points to this specific unit as the development platform. I would say that there almost certainly has to be product changes for a consumer platform as the box photographed has a displayout that consists entirely of DP outputs (1x DP, 2x mDP); a consumer box almost certainly has to have HDMI.

Or ship with an HDMI cable.

 

[messyman]

Piston is a horrible name.

 

[Dave Baumann]

Even passive DP-to-HDMI adapters are ~10x the cost of the cost components needed for HDMI output, if there is intended to be any volume on it I think they'd want to change it for margin purposes. Plus, its just plain inelegant!

Edit - More detailed pictures at Engadget show the full sized DP as "DP/HDMI". That might actually be the hybrid port that can accept either connector. Still a little confusing for consumers though.

 

[Davros]

Piston is a horrible name.

Its what the gamers are being isnt it

 

[Grall]

Valve having both Michael Abrash and Jeri Ellsworth on board

Hurm, when I type "Jeri" (sans quotes) into google's search bar, the second quicksearch result that pops up is Ellsworth - second after you-know-who, I'm sure... Is that just my geeky interests polluting google's responses, or are all quicksearch results identical for everyone, meaning a self-taught engineer really is the second-most commonly searched Jeri, on the planet?

In any case, her accomplishments are certainly impressive.

Perhaps this is a different idea, build a small cheap box that plays $5-$15 games as proof of concept

Certainly food for thought that idea, but that "piston" of theirs (gah! lol) better not cost anywhere near a thousand bucks if that's their plan, as an Ouya, or any other of that plethora of android-running-SoC-on-a-stick-or-breadboard devices could do the same for a fraction of the price.

 

[Gerry]

Its what the gamers are being isnt it

haha

 

[Scott_Arm]

Valve talks Steambox. I haven't read it yet.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/08/valve-ben-krasnow-steambox/

 

[JasonLD]

Valve talks Steambox. I haven't read it yet.

http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/08/valve-ben-krasnow-steambox/

Hmm, no hardware from Valve in 2013?