Gabe Newell says mean things about the PS3

[SugarCoat]

Consi si si si si der der der ing ing how how chop chop choppy the sour sour source (ok enough) engine is (have they even fixed this problem yet) and how many people were affected with the sound choppy crash bug, he's the last person who should be talking about disasters, and starting over.

actually the problem with the sound bug was because so few people were having the problem and they were having trouble reproducing it in-house. It was fixed though after a number of patches released soon after specifically to get at this issue. Source and Steam arent choppy. Its by far considered one of the nicest engines to date. The fact that it still looks so good to this day from a product essentially ment to ship in 2004 (bloodlines afterall did infact ship in 2004) is a testament to its greatness.

Theres a saying, its dont bite the hand that feeds you, Valve has never been one to enjoy being pushed around by its publishers, nor do they have a history of being paid to have an opinion which many devs and journalists are, so if you dont like it or dont agree with it, thats fine, but dont go off on some baseless rant.

The PS3 in its current form is going to need no help in destroying its chances at a significant install rate. He knows that, hence the comments.

 

[Crayon]

Sounds like the guy can't control himself....

That aside, I liken these comments to the recent Carmack statements. Some guys just aren't excited about putting so many resources behind technology, as opposed to content.

 

[Diesel2]

The sound bug didn't affect all users and was fixed for most very, very quickly. If HL2 was a console title it would have been corrected in development and verification. The fact is most PC games have bugs/compliance issues due to the huge variety of hardware and even larger variety of configurations. A game that sells a couple million titles in a months time on the PC is going to have some issues.

Personally I had it running on 2 very different PCs in my office when it was released and neither had a single issue, nor did anyone in my clan (over 20 people). Yes, some people had issues, but most of them were resolved very quickly.

Your logic btw isn't very logical. I guess Fran should shut up because it didn't live up to some of Peter's hype, and DeanoC should shut up because KFK didn't rate or sell well, and ERP should shut up because...

I think most of us are smart enough to weight success and failtures and the mitigating factors and look at a developer's comment and put them in context of who they are and what they are doing, and make our own judgement about how and when it is valid.

Actually, the sound bug affected quite a few users (including myself from Episode 1 onwards) and was anything BUT fixed quickly, I can assure you of that. I'm still not sure if I can play Episode 1, or DoD:Source for more than 10 minutes.

The amount of time I spent on the Steam forums is a testament to this. The number of posts I read from users with suggestions, the number of support tickets that were created, the number of posts from different users and the lack of any sort of recognition that a) the problem existed and b) the problem was being looked at were quite frustrating.

My point being, Gabe's comments are quite condescending, considering not all is good with his own house.

 

[Dave Baumann]

That aside, I liken these comments to the recent Carmack statements. Some guys just aren't excited about putting so many resources behind technology, as opposed to content.

Errm, I'd have to "LOL" at that. Trying to say that about JC inparticular is rather foolish.

 

[Skrying]

Actually, the sound bug affected quite a few users (including myself from Episode 1 onwards) and was anything BUT fixed quickly, I can assure you of that. I'm still not sure if I can play Episode 1, or DoD:Source for more than 10 minutes.

The amount of time I spent on the Steam forums is a testament to this. The number of posts I read from users with suggestions, the number of support tickets that were created, the number of posts from different users and the lack of any sort of recognition that a) the problem existed and b) the problem was being looked at were quite frustrating.

My point being, Gabe's comments are quite condescending, considering not all is good with his own house.

Interesting, you're the first one I've heard with this issue in a very long time. Seeing the others comments would suggest the same case for them as well. There will always be users who simply run into an issue no matter how tight the code on the PC, you just happen to fall into that part. In fact I would gander that your issue isn't even related at all to the real source of the stuttering issue.

I can say however that the Source engine compared to a large number of others is easily one of the most tight, well performing, and constantly upgraded engines out there today and on a platform that is comprised of hundreds of thousands of different configurations, driver combinations, and other already installed programs.

 

[ninzel]

I don't think Gabe is incapable of making great games that take full advatage of the PS3,that's not the point of his comments. But of course focusing on specs people completely missed the point, which is his point ironically.
His point is that complicated hardware takes too much time and focus away from working on other things much more important to the end user experience. In earlier interviews he has cited WOW as an example of a succesful game that is sucesful not because of how many polygons the game renders but becasue of the full user experience.

 

[nelg]

.......... and ERP should shut up because...

He is here and there, working for someone or other on the game called Enigma.

 

[Acert93]

He is here and there, working for someone or other on the game called Enigma.

Yeah, we don't know exactly what ERP does, except that the other devs do and he seems respected and well informed. But he should just shut the @#$@#$ up!

Ps- Please don't smite me overlord mods. ERP, I love you man.... ouch!

 

[Dunchan25]

Some people really hate to change with the times. He's one of them.

 

[Ben-Nice]

Does Valve even have any game coming out on Wii? He already comitted to making a game for the 360 and PS3. If he really liked Wii why isn't he supporting it?

 

[Skrying]

Does Valve even have any game coming out on Wii? He already comitted to making a game for the 360 and PS3. If he really liked Wii why isn't he supporting it?

Because its possible to really like something but it not really fit your type of games, etc. I think Valve could make a neat game for the Wii but I kind of doubt they would, they have several big projects and they tend to do things "right" even if it takes forever.

 

[-tkf-]

Halflife 2 is a great game! - Loading - that i enjoyed alot - Loading - it really raised the bar - Loading - on so many levels - Loading - I hated the required internet connection just to - Loading - unlock a boxed product - Loading - But hey - Loading - it was worth it - Loading - i must say though - Loading - i have never played a Vavle game on any console - Loading - and why should i? - Loading - PC is clearly their platform of choice - Loading - i would have loved if they worked a bit more on streaming though....

 

[Skrying]

Halflife 2 is a great game! - Loading - that i enjoyed alot - Loading - it really raised the bar - Loading - on so many levels - Loading - I hated the required internet connection just to - Loading - unlock a boxed product - Loading - But hey - Loading - it was worth it - Loading - i must say though - Loading - i have never played a Vavle game on any console - Loading - and why should i? - Loading - PC is clearly their platform of choice - Loading - i would have loved if they worked a bit more on streaming though....

Now that made me laugh, and it is true.

 

[Dregun]

I don't think Gabe is incapable of making great games that take full advatage of the PS3,that's not the point of his comments. But of course focusing on specs people completely missed the point, which is his point ironically.
His point is that complicated hardware takes too much time and focus away from working on other things much more important to the end user experience. In earlier interviews he has cited WOW as an example of a succesful game that is sucesful not because of how many polygons the game renders but becasue of the full user experience.

What gets me is that "eventually" he is going to have to learn how to make use of such radical technology because very shortly thats all thats going to be available. Its been said before that PC developers tend to be lazy, they want more ram and more clock cycles because it allows them to be sloppy. If the PS3 had a 7ghz X86 Processor 1GB of DDR2(9600) and a DX10 ATI chip he wouldn't be pushing "things much more important to the end user experience" It doesn't matter if the results are the same; if they have to work harder to achieve it then they bash it because of it or they complain that it doesn't have enough resources for them.

All these topics and posts remind me of what was being said during the PS2 launch almost exactly.
1. PS2 is going to fail because its expensive ($300)
2. PS2 is going to fail because PC and some console developers are saying its too complicated
3. PS2 is going to fail because the resources needed to get results outways the profit.
4. PS2 is going to fail because it includes a DVD player that is NOT needed since games dont take up that much space yet.
5. PS2 is going to fail because the DS2 is only an upgrade from the DS and is not innovative.
6. PS2 is going to fail because it doesn't have any AAA titles available at launch
7. PS2 is going to fail because Sony didn't reach their initial production/sales targets for its release
8. PS2 is going to fail because Sony hasn't outlined a specific "Online" strategy to compete with Live
9. PS2 is going to fail because the graphics look no better then whats available for the Dreamcast
And my favorite
10. PS2 is going to fail because Sony is including stuff not needed to play games while an "other" manufacture is just making a console because thats what gamers want.

Seriously am I the only one who remembers the PS2 launch and all the nonsense that spewed because of it? Did the PS2 not show to be a complete success amongst all the trash talking it received? Could we at least give it a year before we proclaim it was a failure?

Dregun

 

[BRiT]

It has nothing to do with the "radical technology". It has to do with "radical technology" paired with immature development tools. I'm sure he feels the development environment for the PS3 is sorely lacking compared to that of the Xbox 360 and PC.

 

[DemoCoder]

Gabe and Valve have lots of experience with do-overs, cancellations, and lying to customers about shipdates, so maybe his opinion has some weight, as Valve and Sony business practices and marketing aren't completely dissimilar.

(yes, Valve clearly lied about HL2 after they demoed it, and the source code theft simply proved that all they had was a hacked up demo, which is why it took another year to get the game out)

 

[Skrying]

It has nothing to do with the "radical technology". It has to do with "radical technology" paired with immature development tools. I'm sure he feels the development environment for the PS3 is sorely lacking compared to that of the Xbox 360 and PC.

Exactly. Apparently this concept is very hard to grasp though, a number of posts just freak and start bashing the developer (be it Newell or Carmack, or whoever) and say they're just upset because its not as easy as PC (since when was PC development a cakewalk anyway....), instead of actually taking a step back and realizing a few keys issues that the PS3 at this point in time has. Its new and its development tools are simply not to the level as the Xbox 360's. A developer creating games on both platforms I would imagine would generally agree with these sentiments though maybe not go as far as Newell did with this comments. Were his comments a bit harsh? I think they were, but I also think there is a bit of foundation to what he said.

Another thing is that this is not another "oh noes Sony is d00m3d" thread. Its simply what he said, if a bit extreme and I do not see anyone saying the PS3 is doomed or any such nonsense.

 

[JasonLD]

Anyone can say whatever he/she wants to say. I am not surprised at all that someone had that kind of opinion about PS3 anyways...and that someone could be anyone including Gabe Newell.

 

[SugarCoat]

What gets me is that "eventually" he is going to have to learn how to make use of such radical technology because very shortly thats all thats going to be available. Its been said before that PC developers tend to be lazy, they want more ram and more clock cycles because it allows them to be sloppy. If the PS3 had a 7ghz X86 Processor 1GB of DDR2(9600) and a DX10 ATI chip he wouldn't be pushing "things much more important to the end user experience" It doesn't matter if the results are the same; if they have to work harder to achieve it then they bash it because of it or they complain that it doesn't have enough resources for them.

All these topics and posts remind me of what was being said during the PS2 launch almost exactly.
1. PS2 is going to fail because its expensive ($300)
2. PS2 is going to fail because PC and some console developers are saying its too complicated
3. PS2 is going to fail because the resources needed to get results outways the profit.
4. PS2 is going to fail because it includes a DVD player that is NOT needed since games dont take up that much space yet.
5. PS2 is going to fail because the DS2 is only an upgrade from the DS and is not innovative.
6. PS2 is going to fail because it doesn't have any AAA titles available at launch
7. PS2 is going to fail because Sony didn't reach their initial production/sales targets for its release
8. PS2 is going to fail because Sony hasn't outlined a specific "Online" strategy to compete with Live
9. PS2 is going to fail because the graphics look no better then whats available for the Dreamcast
And my favorite
10. PS2 is going to fail because Sony is including stuff not needed to play games while an "other" manufacture is just making a console because thats what gamers want.

Seriously am I the only one who remembers the PS2 launch and all the nonsense that spewed because of it? Did the PS2 not show to be a complete success amongst all the trash talking it received? Could we at least give it a year before we proclaim it was a failure?

Dregun

I'm sorry but the Playstation 3 is in very few ways comparable to the Playstation 2. They've managed to make dev tools worse, double the launch price, launch with fewer consoles and not many games all while appearing to have no real goal of their own. The sixaxis was tossed in months before production after spying the hype on wii, they dropped rumble, they fell way short of their E3 05 promises, they managed to spread quite a bit of FUD about the capabilities of the Xbox360 (dont forget its Xbox 1.5 to sony), People continue to forget that the PS2 its massive amount consoles after price drops, the PS3 simply cannot do the same thing without sony bending over. This isnt console wars, its price wars. Its a game of who can sell the consumer the best time for the cheapest price. Sony is losing nextgen, and thats the reality of it. Its like Sony had a meeting and said 'okay fellas, everything we had as a strength or weakness in the PS2, fuck it up as bad as you can but make it look damn sexy!'

Differences between needing BRD over DVD and DVD over cartridge are ridiculous. DVD was a huge leap in physical format. BRD just allows devs to be extremely lazy and put in tons of uncompressed videos and audio. The actual meat and potatos portion of many games doesnt need 25gb let alone 50gb of data. The biggest Stand alone MMOs (which remain the biggest content games to date) dont even get close to that.

 

[Polygon Crusher]

Anyone can say whatever he/she wants to say. I am not surprised at all that someone had that kind of opinion about PS3 anyways...and that someone could be anyone including Gabe Newell.

Yes I agree, Gabe Newell is the man to actually tell the truth becouse he isn't payed to fawn on to a company (like so many other devs)!
Quite resfreshing if one might say so.