Gabe Newell says mean things about the PS3

[RobertR1]

http://gonintendo.com/?p=11654

“The PS3 is a total disaster on so many levels, I think It’s really clear that Sony lost track of what customers and what developers wanted. I’d say, even at this late date, they should just cancel it and do a “do over”. Just say, “This was a horrible disaster and we’re sorry and we’re going to stop selling this and stop trying to convince people to develop for it”. The happy story is the Wii. I’m betting that by Christmas of next year, the Wii has a larger installed base than the 360. Other people think I’m crazy. I really like everthing that Nintendo is doing. “

A bit harsh. Does anyone have the actual issue to see if he goes into detail or just blurted something out?

I can agree with his Wii taking over 360 in sales. Price is king and more importantly the Wii is a consumer hit. A good combo to have for nintendo.

 

[Natoma]

It's his opinion. Though if the PS3 sells really well, you can bet Valve will be producing games for it. Money and marketshare talks.

 

[Acert93]

It's his opinion. Though if the PS3 sells really well, you can bet Valve will be producing games for it. Money and marketshare talks.

They already are! Half-Life 2 Orange... well, being ported by an EA studio, but still.

That said, marketshare isn't the only driving force for them. They didn't bother to do much on the last gen consoles. This time the PC market appears a little thinner so I think they will do more console work, but I don't think it is a guarantee we will see a lot of PC stuff from them.

 

[Corwin_B]

http://gonintendo.com/?p=11654

"I’m betting that by Christmas of next year, the Wii has a larger installed base than the 360. Other people think I’m crazy. I really like everthing that Nintendo is doing. “

Not that risky of a gamble to make once you take Japan sales into account.

 

[Carl B]

Well, we all know Gabe (similar to Carmack) has been a big oponent of Sony's architectural choices for some time. I think his words here are *too* harsh - even in this evnironment of ever greater mudslinging - but he gets his thoughts across clearly, that's for sure!

I think boiling it down to something as simple as PC devs hate Cell may before long become a simple truism.

Gabe's a talented dude, but so long as it's PC devs, I don't feel I'm missing out on anything I can't get on, say... the PC.

 

[Nesh]

Well, we all know Gabe (similar to Carmack) has been a big oponent of Sony's architectural choices for some time. I think his words here are *too* harsh - even in this evnironment of ever greater mudslinging - but he gets his thoughts across clearly, that's for sure!

I think boiling it down to something as simple as PC devs hate Cell may before long become a simple truism.

Gabe's a talented dude, but so long as it's PC devs, I don't feel I'm missing out on anything I can't get on, say... the PC.

Like always there will be devs that should make this guy shut up with their achievements

 

[mckmas8808]

This guy just doesn't "get" it.

 

[Darkon]

Well, we all know Gabe (similar to Carmack) has been a big oponent of Sony's architectural choices for some time. I think his words here are *too* harsh - even in this evnironment of ever greater mudslinging - but he gets his thoughts across clearly, that's for sure!

I think boiling it down to something as simple as PC devs hate Cell may before long become a simple truism.

Gabe's a talented dude, but so long as it's PC devs, I don't feel I'm missing out on anything I can't get on, say... the PC.

I doubt all of them.

Like always there will be devs that should make this guy shut up with their achievements

There already are , Epica and Crytec seem miles a head of both ID and Valve

 

[Acert93]

Like always there will be devs that should make this guy shut up with their achievements

And yes, we should tell all the guys telling how great the PS3 is to shut up too. Why is it only the "warnings" from developers are told to shut up?

Are you saying that accomplished developers should shut up and we should let unaccomplished ones do all the speaking?

Personally, their opinions are valid as their opinions from people who have had success in the industry, are familiar with the systems, and are making games for them. But they go no further than that and ultimately what they say will be based on what people in general can achieve on the systems, but more relevantly, what their staff is capable of doing. It is all about the games.

As for Gabe, he can be bold but he has spoken pretty fairly in the past in regards to his vision/game design and how hardware meets up (see: NV30). It isn't a trueism, but it does show that for Valve he isn't blowing smoke. But that is only Valve. IF you don't want to play a Valve game, ignore him. If you do... take this as your warning, "If you want to play out games, well, don't be banking on the PS3 because we here at Valve don't like it".

This guy just doesn't "get" it.

Or maybe developers have different visions for what their games are / will be and the hardware doesn't align with what their vision is.

The PS3 may be the panacea for one developer (e.g. Kojima) and absolutely fail to provide the platform to fulfill the vision for another. And this isn't even from a marketshare angle, but from a game design standpoint. I could easily see how for a developer comparing a Core 2 Duo or Athlon64 X2 to Cell/Xenon and looking to have advanced AI and behavioral interactions with a lot of junior programmers doing a lot of scripting that the performance and architecture of the consoles would not be a joyfull experience, especially since the techniques required for such are still in the early exploration stages.

 

[thatdude90210]

Maybe he doesn't "get" the PS3, a lot of people don't, going by the sales numbers in USA & Japan. But he gets the Wii just fine. He gets the 3 times the sales number, yet still with unmet demand. He gets the 4 hour long E3 lines, and the door opening stampede. He gets that even non-gamers want the Wii.

Maybe this means some possible Valve Source games for the Wii in the future.

 

[Polygon Crusher]

http://gonintendo.com/?p=11654

“The PS3 is a total disaster on so many levels, I think It’s really clear that Sony lost track of what customers and what developers wanted. I’d say, even at this late date, they should just cancel it and do a “do overâ€. Just say, “This was a horrible disaster and we’re sorry and we’re going to stop selling this and stop trying to convince people to develop for itâ€. The happy story is the Wii. I’m betting that by Christmas of next year, the Wii has a larger installed base than the 360. Other people think I’m crazy. I really like everthing that Nintendo is doing. “

A bit harsh. Does anyone have the actual issue to see if he goes into detail or just blurted something out?

I can agree with his Wii taking over 360 in sales. Price is king and more importantly the Wii is a consumer hit. A good combo to have for nintendo.

Hmmm, I must commend Gabe for having "balls" to tell what other devs don't dare. And not to say that he isn't wrong either. Quite a refreshment to see a dev that isn't fawning on!

 

[Rainbow Man]

And yes, we should tell all the guys telling how great the PS3 is to shut up too. Why is it only the "warnings" from developers are told to shut up?

Gabe should say whatever he wants to of course.

To me a console is just a box. PS3 happens to be a rather big and heavy box that's all. If he doesn't like it it's not really any concern of mine or anyone else.

I don't think anyone should feel upset or resentful. Life's too short for stuff like that.

Peace.

 

[infinity4]

in my opinion, i would be surprised to see an attractive, innovative $250 system failing to outsell $400 great HD gaming system (even i bet there will be price drop).

i wonder if sony still has name value and customer loyalty to sell ps3s...

 

[one]

I suspect he says this because EA told him to push back the release of the PC/Xbox 360 version of HL2:EP2 just for the PS3 version which is not yet ready.

Maybe he doesn't "get" the PS3, a lot of people don't, going by the sales numbers in USA & Japan. But he gets the Wii just fine.

Why not praise the uber-simple single-core architecture Wii? But I doubt he actually tried to design an FPS around Wiimote.

 

[ADEX]

Or maybe developers have different visions for what their games are / will be and the hardware doesn't align with what their vision is.

What he doesn't seem to realise is Cell is only the first, all processors are going down much the same path - even PC processors. I'd be very curious to hear developers comments in 5 years time on the same topic.

 

[Acert93]

What he doesn't seem to realise is Cell is only the first, all processors are going down much the same path - even PC processors. I'd be very curious to hear developers comments in 5 years time on the same topic.

Valve has already invested in multicore design. I know they, like all devs, would rather 2x clocks instead of 2x chips, but they know that isn't realistic. I think the general idea from Gabe is finding solutions that match their design and workflow goals. Going multi-core is hard enough, I think for PC developers to add on top assymetric design as well as CPUs (SPEs) that cut many of the design niceties of the PC chips (large coherant caches, handle C style code very effeciently, in-order execution, no branching, etc) is the fly in his ointment.

But this is just repeating what we know 18 months ago: PC developers were going to have more trouble with Cell than PS2 developers (who look at Cell completely differently). Market, design, experience, etc have a lot of impact. That is where devs are free to pick what meets their goals best and why having 2 competitors in the market is good. I am sure a lot of PS2 developers feel overly confined and limited by the PC as well, so it goes both ways.

 

[Rainbow Man]

I suspect he says this because EA told him to push back the release of the PC/Xbox 360 version of HL2:EP2 just for the PS3 version which is not yet ready.

How could EA tell him anything like that really?
EA doesn't either own or control valve.

Peace.

 

[Diesel2]

Consi si si si si der der der ing ing how how chop chop choppy the sour sour source (ok enough) engine is (have they even fixed this problem yet) and how many people were affected with the sound choppy crash bug, he's the last person who should be talking about disasters, and starting over.

 

[Skrying]

Consi si si si si der der der ing ing how how chop chop choppy the sour sour source (ok enough) engine is (have they even fixed this problem yet) and how many people were affected with the sound choppy crash bug, he's the last person who should be talking about disasters, and starting over.

You're very late, I'm sorry. The issue was fixed long ago and Source is used in a number of the best looking PC games and often delivers great performance. Half Life 2: Episode One is a beautiful game that still hits upwards of 100FPS on even middle of the road computers with settings maxed. Its a great engine that gets new features constantly as well.

Gabe's problem is probably similar to Carmack's. When developing for the PS3 (and past Sony consoles) its way more work than any other console out there right now. I find it rather odd how some of you seem to wear the PS3 badge of honor like its some sort of privilege that the PS3 can be a real pain to develop for. When you develop on the computer you have years of experience and know what you're doing, when you move to the Xbox 360 you get a lot of Microsoft support and tools that vastly help in the transition, and then you go to PS3 in which you're greeted by lacking tools and a alien setup. Now, think about that for a second, I would suspect you'd be rather pissy about the issue yourself.

 

[Acert93]

Consi si si si si der der der ing ing how how chop chop choppy the sour sour source (ok enough) engine is (have they even fixed this problem yet) and how many people were affected with the sound choppy crash bug, he's the last person who should be talking about disasters, and starting over.

The sound bug didn't affect all users and was fixed for most very, very quickly. If HL2 was a console title it would have been corrected in development and verification. The fact is most PC games have bugs/compliance issues due to the huge variety of hardware and even larger variety of configurations. A game that sells a couple million titles in a months time on the PC is going to have some issues.

Personally I had it running on 2 very different PCs in my office when it was released and neither had a single issue, nor did anyone in my clan (over 20 people). Yes, some people had issues, but most of them were resolved very quickly.

Your logic btw isn't very logical. I guess Fran should shut up because it didn't live up to some of Peter's hype, and DeanoC should shut up because KFK didn't rate or sell well, and ERP should shut up because...

I think most of us are smart enough to weight success and failtures and the mitigating factors and look at a developer's comment and put them in context of who they are and what they are doing, and make our own judgement about how and when it is valid.