With the release of nvidias g80 and ati's r600, how does everyone think the 360's Xenos will fare? Will the dx10 cards outright easily outperform the 360s gpu? i'm only wondering as the life cycle of the 360 is going to be at least 4-5 years, and with better and better gpus coming out, how is xenos going to keep up. I understand that consoles are closed boxes and optimized, but is this enough to keep up?
g80, r600, Xenos
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Xenos isn't in direct competition to PC graphics cards so the notion of "keeping up" is already flawed.
The 360 doesn't have an upgrade slot for graphics cards and Xenos will not change. It certainly won't become slower than it is now just because somewhere else in the marketplace something happens.
The 360 doesn't have an upgrade slot for graphics cards and Xenos will not change. It certainly won't become slower than it is now just because somewhere else in the marketplace something happens.
Why didn't you also compare the G80 with the RSX? Anyway PC GPU's usually are ahead of the consoles in many aspects within a year or two. But lets be honest neither Xenos or the RSX are going to be comparred to whats happening in PC gaming by the majority of the console gaming population anyway so its slightly irrelavant.
Xenos is still a DX9 era part (performance wise). It isn't going to keep up with a G80 or R600, but it would be silly to expect it to.
Closed box will get more out of it than a normal DX9 card, but you're still going to have limitations. You'll definitely see some creative things (effects wise) if devs are given the opportunity.
If you're worrying about performance compared to PC parts in 4-5 years, then it doesn't seem like you've been a console gamer for all that long -- it's a silly thing to worry about, because there isn't anything you can do to change the fact that console hardware will quickly get outdated.
Closed box will get more out of it than a normal DX9 card, but you're still going to have limitations. You'll definitely see some creative things (effects wise) if devs are given the opportunity.
If you're worrying about performance compared to PC parts in 4-5 years, then it doesn't seem like you've been a console gamer for all that long -- it's a silly thing to worry about, because there isn't anything you can do to change the fact that console hardware will quickly get outdated.
One thing that is going to help the consoles is the closed architecture. We will be seeing some really amazing things in the next few years from these two little boxes, pretty much like we saw some pretty amazing things on little PS2, things that we never thought possible. As long as enough time and resources are put into the development, we'll be fine.
PC games will always have to gather to older architectures too to a certain extent, and that never helps. The G80 and R600 demos will be impressive though.
PC games will always have to gather to older architectures too to a certain extent, and that never helps. The G80 and R600 demos will be impressive though.
oh dont get me wrong, im not worried. I had an xbox which displayed amazing graphics many years down the line even compared to pc graphics, e.g chaos theory, its just these days, it seems gpus are getting better at a quicker rate. I dont expect the xenos to "keep up", i was just curious if there would be a massive difference. For example, comparing Alan Wake or Assassins Creed. Do you think there will be a big difference in visuals and performance?
I didnt mention the RSX because many people to my knowledge have said that the Xenos > RSX. I dont know if this is true however. Also, i dont own a ps3, and dont intend to...not because i'm a ******, its just the 360 interests me more.
The DX10 cards will outright easily outperform the Xenos.
Hell DX9 PC cards outright easily outperform RSX\Xenos right now.
The GF7950 is playing in a whole different league than the console GPU's. Maybe thats not a fair comparison since its a Dual-cored GPU, but take a X1900XTX or a 7900GTX and you will still have more raw power (in any measurable way) than a console gpu.
I think the interesting question here would be how much more visual goddies can we squeeze out of a "last-generation" GPU like the Xenos and RSX compared to what you get on a normal PC game with a DX9 card? To simplify the question, how big difference does the fact that its a closed-box environment do?
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I like to look at it, controversally, this way:
RSX = GF7900 with 8 ROPs and a 128-bit bus. Ick. At least that's what I think we know so far.
Xenos = a truly uniquely customized console part. 8 ROPs and 128-bit bus again, but it has the edram to dramatically improve its efficiency at its typical 720p resolution. If they'd use tiling (assuming it's not broken), things would be even better. I want that low-hit AA. It also has a unified shader design meaning, theoretically, that it is a more flexible design. Of course, it could have serious flaws cuz it is 1st generation unified hardware.
Neither of those chips would stand a chance against even a X1800 or 7800 if stuck on a video card and used in the PC world. But, in their closed little worlds where they can be fully exploited with no Windows limitations and a fully-known and specified set of hardware, they can really be tuned for and you get to see the advantages of that.
RSX = GF7900 with 8 ROPs and a 128-bit bus. Ick. At least that's what I think we know so far.
Xenos = a truly uniquely customized console part. 8 ROPs and 128-bit bus again, but it has the edram to dramatically improve its efficiency at its typical 720p resolution. If they'd use tiling (assuming it's not broken), things would be even better. I want that low-hit AA. It also has a unified shader design meaning, theoretically, that it is a more flexible design. Of course, it could have serious flaws cuz it is 1st generation unified hardware.
Neither of those chips would stand a chance against even a X1800 or 7800 if stuck on a video card and used in the PC world. But, in their closed little worlds where they can be fully exploited with no Windows limitations and a fully-known and specified set of hardware, they can really be tuned for and you get to see the advantages of that.
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And the G80 and the R600 doesnt cost more than the x360 or the PS3 for that matter?
I guess you are thinking of GF7950 GPUs in SLI configuration, like GF7950X2 cards.
The GF7950 GPU is basically a speedbump of the GF7900 GPU which is basically a die shrink with some minor enhancements of the GF7800 GPU.
Actually while you're overall points are valid, I'd say they would. Xenos has more ALU's than X1800, and RSX is clocked significantly higher than any 7800 save the vaporware 512 MB version (7800 GTX debuted at 430 mhz I believe). I'd say 7800 and X1800 are the range than Xenos and RSX inhabit. While I agree that 7900/X1900 surpass them.
Look at Gears of War and tell me Xenos isn't a pretty high end card, even if it was on a PC..I see few if any PC games matching it.
MasterDisaster
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ATI says that Xenos have a final experience very similar to X1900xt for the user
ATI says that @ 720p Xenos is faster than X1800XT due to its shader power
the rest are only fan/users opinions and the value of this opinons compared to the official words of ati (now amd, ok) is zero ( 0 )
as a closed box, I will be not surprised to see xenos reaching and exceeding similar end results of g80/R600 in a couple of years
ATI says that @ 720p Xenos is faster than X1800XT due to its shader power
the rest are only fan/users opinions and the value of this opinons compared to the official words of ati (now amd, ok) is zero ( 0 )
as a closed box, I will be not surprised to see xenos reaching and exceeding similar end results of g80/R600 in a couple of years
Link? I heard something else entirely.
MasterDisaster is correct with his info.
Here's a link where the creator of Xenos at ATi says Xenos is faster than X1800XT at "HD Resolutions".
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/showthread.php?p=600965#post600965
TurnDragoZeroV2G
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theteamaqua
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with the launch of G80, and soon to be rleease R600. console's hardware gets old fast.
I bet its going to be faster in a few cases. Framebuffer bandwidth, unified architecture, will account for a boost in efficiency. X1900 doesn't have great ALU utilization (look at G80 vs. x1900xtx shadermark), and I expect the Xenos to be better in this case. I would bet that a game coded specifically for Xenos from the ground up could run better than an equivalent game (as far as shaders, textures, etc) would run built for x1900. Or at least you could find a specific case where it would.
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