Forza 5 [XO] *large pics inside*

[RenegadeRocks]

I think they are from something that you could call 'in-between', which is AutoVista mode. This allows you to investigate the car in detail (get in the car, open the trunk, pop the hood, etc.), while the car is parked in a garage. The graphics are still realtime, but all resources just go into rendering the car as nicely as possible. The previous 360 version of Forza supported AutoVista mode for some 20-30 cars I think (out of, what, 430 cars in total?).

Ah ! So an even more controlled environment than the photomode, in the sense that it is inside a garage. You can't see this detailed cars by pausing mid-race and taking a pic? That explains the mighty details. Good for drooling and seeing whats possible on the hardware.

and no weather? thats a bummer ! I can understand no realtime lighting changes, but weather is essential. I mean we need to have rain/snow etc in a racing game. In fact I ordered gt 5 last week only when someone confirmed that it has rain/snow/dust etc.

So, they are focusing solely on great looking cars and sacrificing other stuff for it ! I would rather they go for an overall good image than just focus on cars, cos while racing, my eyes are fixed on the track ! NFS Hot Pursuit had some really cool weather effects and they made the races during thunderstorms so much more exciting ! :smile:

 

[warb]

There is surely enough memory in the X1 to have the extra detail show up on close inspection anywhere.

 

[Cyan]

The cars do look beautiful ! Are these shots also from whatever it has like GT's photomode? I mean who would put super high res brush marks on rims during gameplay ?

Well, they will. Dan Greenawalt said in this interview with The Smoking Tire that there will be only one model for every car, during gameplay, replays an photo mode.

This means you get the maximum amount of detail for every car no matter what.

http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2013/tst-podcast-76-forzas-dan-greenawalt/

So the tarmac and leather in the seats have 3 layers of paint , also cars are composed of around 1300 materials ... but TOD, weather and night races are cut .
It's nice to see where their priorities are .

I think night racing would be attainable -it was in Forza 1 already after all!- but since it is a launch title let's give them a truce.

Dan Greenawalt said that time constraints are the culprit. I believe him after what they achieved with Forza 5, the most consistent, balanced racing game this generation on the Xbox 360, imho.

 

[Cyan]

I think they are from something that you could call 'in-between', which is AutoVista mode. This allows you to investigate the car in detail (get in the car, open the trunk, pop the hood, etc.), while the car is parked in a garage. The graphics are still realtime, but all resources just go into rendering the car as nicely as possible. The previous 360 version of Forza supported AutoVista mode for some 20-30 cars I think (out of, what, 430 cars in total?).

As I said he mentioned in an interview with The Smoking Tire that they are going to use a single model for every car so you get the max amount of detail every single second.

Some other things he said in the interview:

• New lighting engine.
  
  Autovista Mode was amazing and perfect on Xbox 360, so people wondered how you can improve that, and Dan says they improved it by letting you see the less perfect things -see the scratches in a previous image I posted-.
  
  There is a new, advanced form of normal mapping simulation and how the light bounces off of things.
  
  There won't be different tyre compounds.
  
  Dan Greenawalt loves real world tracks.
  
  As I mentioned before, there is no night racing 'cos of time constraints rather than technical restraints.
  
  They cut and redid all the cars from Forza Motorsport 4 and Horizon that weren't AAA standard.
  
  Upgrades and tuning has a few additions, not much, but a few.
  
  Tyre smoke is more visible than in FM4 but they could cut it back.
  
  Multiple layers for paint, damage, etc.
  
  They are still undecided about the car count on track, but they are targeting more than ever before.
  
  There is an offline mode. Drivatars are cached when you log in to XBL.

You can listen to this excellent interview here:

http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2013/tst-podcast-76-forzas-dan-greenawalt/

 

[RudeCurve]

I find that hard to believe. Why would you use such high resolution textures with brushed metal scratches when the cars are far away from the camera?

 

[RenegadeRocks]

I find that hard to believe. Why would you use such high resolution textures with brushed metal scratches when the cars are far away from the camera?

Thats why I posted that. Why would anyone do it, Why waste resources? Instead put them in track detail, give me cracks on the road, the road I am going to be staring at all the time! ANd even if they want to show that when a player pauses the game (Does Forza give u a photomode like that?) they can load them when he clicks a pic !

As for three coats of paint, obviously, what they must mean is that they have made a paint shader that simulates the look of 3 coats of paint. They said in a video interview that in real world paint there's the color, the flakes and then the lighting bouncing inside the paint, the kindof sub surface scattering like effect we see on cars. We do have paint shaders in Maya and Max too which give the car paint look. They must have made one which does it in realtime. There can be only one shader effect on the surface at a time.


No night racing due to time constraints? What does that mean ? If they can bake lighting in day-time tracks, why can't they decide on making some of them have a night time? IF they have the time to calculate GI and bake it for day, they can do it for some tracks for night. Don't make daytime tracks for those! Where is the time constraint? You just know that you have to make 10 day time tracks and 10 night time.

and obviously, having a day version and a night version of a track is very different from having a day-night cycle ! That requires computation in realtime.

I am sure either there's a lot of misunderstanding here or its all PR talk.

As for Drivatars, a friend tells me Forza4 already had them, so it seems plausible they have a working solution for offline players too.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

The new ForzaVista featured in a video. The level of detail is exceedingly high and this can make Forza 5 owners extremely vain

​

The car detail is astounding ! Beautiful ! The car paint shader also looks fab ! The flakes are subtle and the shader changes colour according to viewing angle.Not to be disrespectful, but is that what the devs are passing off as Subsurface scatternig ? It looks fab, but looks just like an angle based colour gradient.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

Found an off screen gameplay video. Looks good !

 

[Silent_Buddha]

As I said he mentioned in an interview with The Smoking Tire that they are going to use a single model for every car so you get the max amount of detail every single second.

The model (mesh) will be the same, but I doubt they'll use the same level of detailed textures when you race. Then again with 5 GB of memory available, they could likely keep them in memory and use them for zoomed in views while racing or during race replays. That's why LOD exists after all. Normal race view you get a lower LOD when zoomed way in you get the max detail LOD. Properly done players will never notice as at normal race distance, you wouldn't be able to see the increased detail from the max detail textures anyway.

That way you can spend more rendering budget on your surroundings, other cars, etc.

Regards,
SB

 

[Cyan]

Found an off screen gameplay video. Looks good !

Another video to my Forza 5 collection while I waint for th efinal game to be released. Thanks for sharing.

The model (mesh) will be the same, but I doubt they'll use the same level of detailed textures when you race. Then again with 5 GB of memory available, they could likely keep them in memory and use them for zoomed in views while racing or during race replays. That's why LOD exists after all. Normal race view you get a lower LOD when zoomed way in you get the max detail LOD. Properly done players will never notice as at normal race distance, you wouldn't be able to see the increased detail from the max detail textures anyway.

That way you can spend more rendering budget on your surroundings, other cars, etc.

Regards,
SB

I can't say exactly because of obvious reasons. But he talks about that from the 25 mins 30 seconds mark on. (it took me a while to find the exact moment when he says that)

You can listen to the interview in the link or download it there and reach your own conclusion.

I downloaded it when I posted the news the other day and it's a pretty small download -just 33MB-

http://www.thesmokingtire.com/2013/tst-podcast-76-forzas-dan-greenawalt/

Regards Silent

 

[Strange]

I got curious and went ahead and put them on the line and test for 60 fps.




luckily, we have a 60 fps video here, and we can actually count the number of numbers on the clock within one second and count for duplicates for frame rates.
This method will work even if this is taken off screen.... as long as there is actually a clock.

The result is as follows:

In the 5 second to 6 second interval, we have the following readings
Duplicate frames are highlighted red.

http://imgur.com/a/CCDU9#0
5.000 5.017 5.033 5.050 5.067 5.083
5.100 5.117 5.133 5.150 5.167 5.183
5.200 5.217 5.233 5.250 5.267 5.283
5.300 5.317 5.333 5.350 5.367 5.383
5.400 5.417 5.433 5.450 5.467 5.483
5.500 5.517 5.533 5.550 5.567 5.583
5.600 5.617 5.617 5.633 5.633 5.650
5.667 5.667 5.711 5.744 5.761 5.777
5.794 5.811 5.844 5.861 5.877 5.894
5.911 5.927 5.944 5.961 5.977 5.994


Resulting in 57 FPS due to 3 duplicate frames and 57 distinguished frames.


Furthermore, for the 7~8 second interval, we have this.
http://imgur.com/a/GGnOJ#0
6.994 7.027 7.044 7.061 7.061 7.077
7.094 7.094 7.127 7.127 7.144 7.177
7.211 7.227 7.244 7.244 7.261 7.294
7.311 7.327 7.344 7.361 7.377 7.394
7.427 7.444 7.461 7.477 7.494 7.511
7.511 7.527 7.544 7.561 7.577 7.594
7.611 7.627 7.644 7.661 7.677 7.711
7.727 7.744 7.761 7.777 7.794 7.811
7.827 7.844 7.861 7.877 7.894 7.911
7.927 7.927 7.944 7.961 7.977 7.994

6 duplicate frames, resulting in 54FPS.

You can check the duplicate frames from the images.



And the result... well, not stellar but not that bad either. Two random samples I've taken show they didn't hit 60fps, sadly.

*Mod Edit* fixed broken links

 

[Arwin]

Close enough, this build is probably more than six months from final?

 

[Nesh]

Missing 6fps is pretty much negligible if you ask me. This is not a fighting game where a single frame can do a difference in high level play

 

[kots]

I got curious and went ahead and put them on the line and test for 60 fps.
.
And the result... well, not stellar but not that bad either. Two random samples I've taken show they didn't hit 60fps, sadly.

Well , with prebaked everything and what , 5 or 6 cars at most on track and they can't hit 60 ?
That's not good imo .

 

[warb]

Well , with prebaked everything and what , 5 or 6 cars at most on track and they can't hit 60 ?
That's not good imo .

Amazing.

 

[DrJay24]

As I mentioned before, there is no night racing 'cos of time constraints rather than technical restraints.

What is this supposed to mean? Technical problems are solved via man hours, thus time, they are one and the same are they not?

 

[warb]

Maybe there'll be night racing DLC.

The video there is off-screen/not synchronised, so doesn't seem like an ideal way to assess frame rate.

 

[Cyan]

Missing 6fps is pretty much negligible if you ask me. This is not a fighting game where a single frame can do a difference in high level play

It's important for me. Forza 4 was the most consistent and balanced racing game of this generation, imho, and running at 60 fps in-game every single second was like a mandatory feature. If Forza 5 dropped a single frame it would be a disappointment.

DrJay24, do you mean that they could solve that by expanding man hours?

 

[DrJay24]

DrJay24, do you mean that they could solve that by expanding man hours?

Well that is how feature get implemented, by devs. They are claiming it is not technical, well it must be, their lighting engine doesn't support it. They could add features by taking more time or having a bigger team.

 

[Cyan]

Well that is how feature get implemented, by devs. They are claiming it is not technical, well it must be, their lighting engine doesn't support it. They could add features by taking more time or having a bigger team.

Yup, but that's a platitude. Such truism doesn't factor in the fact that it is a launch title. It looks great for a first game on the console if you ask me.

News:

According to Turn 10, Xbox One's DVR will revolutionise user generated content, and calls it true user generated content.

They say that Xbox One’s DVR and footage-sharing capabilities is going to give rise to a new breed of user-generated content on videogames consoles.


http://www.oxm.co.uk/58234/how-xbox...ted-content/?cid=OTC-RSS&attr=OXM-General-RSS