Forza 4

[Onkl Bjorni]

Btw, I am not ignoring your Rival challenges. See, we have a problem. You. Are. WAAAAY. Better. Than. I. Am!!! I spent an hour trying to best your Started Top Gear challenge in the Spark. Grr!! I am within 0.2 I believe but no, now Robert is like another 0.3 below you. That said I did take up Arwin the the go '70 Mustang challenge and bested him and also passed your time. I will properly send you a Rivals on that one--I seem to do better (and enjoy) the muscle cars. Something about straightening out before slamming the accelerator clicks with me. There are also a few corners I have identified as ones I can power through not following the line and shaving 0.3-0.6 seconds.

I will say this: Rivals is making me better. But, minimally, I can see that Graham (who has barely touched Rivals... but is stupid awesome at this game), you (Onkl), Robert, Hattrix, and Arwin are just better than I am. So I have my work cut out for me!

Hehe, no problem

Yeah, got a rival challenge mail from Robert, not sure i'm able to best his time, but I'll do some tuning on the car and see how that works out

A action shot of the Beyond3D M5

Sidways M5 2 by bfigved, on Flickr

 

[RobertR1]

I can't bring myself to do any tuning I have no patience for it. I need an engineer.

 

[joker454]

Man rivals are getting really tough now. I can't seem to best some of Acert93 times, irritating

 

[RobertR1]

Man rivals are getting really tough now. I can't seem to best some of Acert93 times, irritating

Just means you'll have to play more. :smile: One thing that helps is to download the top players replay and just watch it from the bumper cam. Turn on telemetry. This will help you really figure out the lines, braking/throttle application and for high HP cars, which gears to take the corners in.

You won't beat their time (likely) but you'll understand what it takes to run a clean lap.

 

[Arwin]

I can't bring myself to do any tuning I have no patience for it. I need an engineer.

Don't like it either. None of my times have any.

Some challenges are also much harder with no ABS, no TCS, Sim mode, but I refuse to yield.

Went to the dealer for the first time and bought the Furai, then did the Merc overtake challenge on the Ring with it.

 

[Acert93]

On TCS and Stability control: are there cars in real life that race with them enabled? Some of the uber highend race cars seem pretty unstable without them. Note: I may be able to race a little, but I pretty much know nothing about cars and even less about racing.

 

[RobertR1]

On TCS and Stability control: are there cars in real life that race with them enabled? Some of the uber highend race cars seem pretty unstable without them. Note: I may be able to race a little, but I pretty much know nothing about cars and even less about racing.

Most high end vehicles come with TCS and stability control. The quality of these systems determines how much it adds. An overly aggressive system will make it so lap times are better with aids turned off. However, on a car like the McLaren MP4-12c, it was designed with electronics package in mind so you will likely not do better.

For example, my car which is a 2002 Z06 uses a pretty poorly implemented of TCS/SC so turning them off completely makes me faster around a track, backroads or any form of performance driving. However, having driven some of the new BMW M series, having some "assist" on didn't seem to take away performance. The rule of thumb is normally, the more you pay, the better implemented such features are. Now, if you highly modify a car with slicks, different size tires, suspension, etc, all bets are off.

A very good TCS system would do a good job of managing wheel spin and feeding the right amount of power without any sputtering or bogging generally experienced with lesser TCS systems. Stability control generally tends to be overly aggressive and can inhibit line changes on the limit. I'd love to drive something like a MP4-12c to see how well a ground up designed system works.

Likely more than you wanted to know or care, i assume

The real question is, why can't I upgrade to using Launch Control for the drag races

 

[Tap In]

I figured I'd just answer a few things that people ask. Sorry for not quoting things, I'm too lazy to dig up the posts.....

Hope that helps.

thanks, makes a lot of sense and a lot of new info for me

 

[Arwin]

Most high end vehicles come with TCS and stability control. The quality of these systems determines how much it adds. An overly aggressive system will make it so lap times are better with aids turned off. However, on a car like the McLaren MP4-12c, it was designed with electronics package in mind so you will likely not do better.

For example, my car which is a 2002 Z06 uses a pretty poorly implemented of TCS/SC so turning them off completely makes me faster around a track, backroads or any form of performance driving. However, having driven some of the new BMW M series, having some "assist" on didn't seem to take away performance. The rule of thumb is normally, the more you pay, the better implemented such features are. Now, if you highly modify a car with slicks, different size tires, suspension, etc, all bets are off.

A very good TCS system would do a good job of managing wheel spin and feeding the right amount of power without any sputtering or bogging generally experienced with lesser TCS systems. Stability control generally tends to be overly aggressive and can inhibit line changes on the limit. I'd love to drive something like a MP4-12c to see how well a ground up designed system works.

Likely more than you wanted to know or care, i assume

The real question is, why can't I upgrade to using Launch Control for the drag races

Good answer. I think never using TCS and ABS is a luxery I can afford only because I am driving with the wheel, and of course Forza is pretty forgiving. There are instances where I put TCS to its lowest setting in other games, and I'm really happy to have ABS in my car in real life too because I almost never have to brake, and when you then have to do that suddenly once every few months it's hard to get it exactly right, especially with fast reflexes and changing weather and surface conditions

But apart from that very few cars in Forza 4 drive optimally with both ABS and TCS on, there are some other reasons for not using either too. First of all, it teaches you more about the car and the best line.

No ABS helps you get a feel for what the best way of braking is much quicker (yes, obviously that's in a straight line most of the time) but also for measured braking (just nudge the brake pedal versus slamming it) which you can still use in a corner under the right circumstances.

No TCS helps you get a feel for what the best way of accellerating much quicker too. If you take a turn and press to hard on the accellerator and you lose grip, then you can find the limit.

Finally, the way TCS and ABS is implemented in games is often not so much realistic, as a general driving assist. And in those cases, games often reward players who can play without these assists with a little bit better performance if you get it right.

Also, if the game indicates when TCS and ABS become active, that too can help tell you that you braked too hard or accellerated to hard. Then the best way of correcting that that the car can do is always mechanical, but never takes over your steering, when in some cases steering can help achieve the best way of correcting.

Well, I'm rambling a bit, but I would simply recommend trying it for a bit, even if you then return to TCS and/or ABS, you'll still find you'll have learned more about your car (and your game ).

 

[Rotmm]

Well, I'm rambling a bit...etc

Just to let you know that the 2 Rivals times you set me are ones that I can't get near.

 

[Gubbi]

No ABS helps you get a feel for what the best way of braking is much quicker (yes, obviously that's in a straight line most of the time) but also for measured braking (just nudge the brake pedal versus slamming it) which you can still use in a corner under the right circumstances.

I agree, in order to get the most from your brakes, ABS off is best.

The problem is when you change often between cars with vastly different brake characteristics.

Buying the brake upgrades, just so that you can adjust brake pressure to get the same response on all your cars is a PITA. It is time consuming and it adds points, often taking your car up a class.

For career mode I mostly have ABS on, because of the above. Exceptions are cars used for online racing and the R1 cars I used a lot (Porsche RS Spyder in F3, Ferrari F333 sp in F2).

Cheers

 

[Arwin]

I agree, in order to get the most from your brakes, ABS off is best.

The problem is when you change often between cars with vastly different brake characteristics.

But if I have one criticism of Forza 4 (and this is not versus GT5, as I don't quite understand ABS in that game at all yet, it is just now starting to become a viable option to turn it off), it is that almost all cars behave the same way. I'm not noticing much difference at all, which is why I manage to play without ABS in the first place.

On the other hand my criticism of Forza 3 that the ABS was a switch that always locked the brakes at pressing the pedal 50% has been addressed in Forza 4, as you can much more gradually reach that point and feel it coming much better.

So I have actually never bothered to tune the brakes in Forza at all, despite not using ABS.

 

[Acert93]

I have sent you some new rival e-mails

Ok, I beat you by 0.2 on the Top Gear Monthly Starter Challenge. I pulled out my wheel, went to sim steering, and it took only 5 laps :smile: I think I can catch Robert now, too, after I get used to the clutch with the wheel (awkward, easier with the pad to be honest). I the wheel, I am very sad they still don't make them I have a new desk so I had to use a piano bench for my wheel haha

 

[kagemaru]

Looking at the rivals mode, some of you guys are insane. =p

If I ever do beat someone's time, do I have to do anything to send a rival email or is it sent automatically once I beat said person?

 

[Rotmm]

...or is it sent automatically once I beat said person?

Automatically.

 

[Onkl Bjorni]

Ok, I beat you by 0.2 on the Top Gear Monthly Starter Challenge. I pulled out my wheel, went to sim steering, and it took only 5 laps :smile: I think I can catch Robert now, too, after I get used to the clutch with the wheel (awkward, easier with the pad to be honest). I the wheel, I am very sad they still don't make them I have a new desk so I had to use a piano bench for my wheel haha

Hmm, looks like I need to dust of my MS wheel and step up my game ;-)
I'll put in a few laps before bed, just too se how things go

(I have been playing some Bad Company 2, working my way to lvl 50 before BF3 hits next week, so have not gotten to play as much Forza as I would like)

 

[Acert93]

Hmm, looks like I need to dust of my MS wheel and step up my game ;-)

You better, because I just dropped my time down to 44.9 I am surprised I was able to find 1.5 seconds left on the track. I am not quite sure how those guys pulling down 42.9 do it. I was racing with them and the cars are just a little faster--not to mention they take some amazing lines without flaw. I went to do a couple laps against Robert so he would get an official challenge as well but servers are down.

EDIT: Yeah, I will be balancing BF3 and FM4 for all of 2012 Hopefully we will have enough B3D 360 players to play as a team.

 

[Acert93]

Grrr! The servers are now "up" and not only is my 44.9 gone my 45.1 doesn't have a ghost. Grrrrr!!

 

[Arwin]

That sucks. But you'll best it. I took Beyond3D honors in the Kia tonight on Top Gear, still some room left though for me, I'm wasting a lot in that second last corner (not too much anymore before though I think, unless I switch to the clutch perhaps). Hopefully they didn't lose that.

Did a fair bit of Rivals mode here and elsewhere as well, leveled up again a fair bit, now 26 I think.

There was also one where I just decided to pick you as my rival straight away, Silverstone I think. I really had to relearn that track, too long ago, so it took me a long time to beat you (kept going off, etc.).

Now that you're braking out the wheel, I'm sure you'll do much better still soon.

 

[Acert93]

Heh, I am spamming all the tracks right now. Wheel or not once I buckle down my times will go down a lot

Except on the Top Gear track in the Monthly Challenge. I only lost some time on the 2nd to last corner so if I can get back under 45.x I am not sure I can cut much more. I was able to get on and run a lot of mid 45s right before dinner so I have gotten better.

I can't bring myself to do any tuning I have no patience for it. I need an engineer.

No need in Forza 4. e.g. Lets say you want to do the Top Gear Starter Challenge in the Monthly. It allows non-stock. So you pick the car you want (Chevy Spark) in your garage and then simply select Purchase Tunes. Filter the most downloaded / highest rated and look for ones that mention "Rivals" and "Top Gear Starter." BANG. There are dozens of designs. I picked one that said, "Top 5 time in the world". Tada instant tune and upgrade. For fun pick a cool paint job (there are TONS now--I am driving a Orange Crush car now) and off you go with a totally custom car.