Fortnite by Epic Games [PC Edition]

So, this is where the thread was. I looked for it in the Console games forum weeks ago and posted a new topic there about it when I didn't see it. I had completely forgotten that it used to be a PC exclusive. Doh!

Interestingly enough no-one was interested in it in the console forum. :p But yeah it looks interesting. Tower defense (Orcs Must Die style), plus base building, plus crafting, all wrapped up in horde mode with a dash of survival.

Regards,
SB
Dunno about Orc Must Die style, but I am a big big fan of tower defense games. From what I've seen, something I found appealing is the art style, I mean the characters design, but I've seen very little.
 
It's not on Steam? Are they crazy?

Nope. They're forcing all the transactions through their own digital store front. Why give 30% of revenue to someone else when it's on the PC, that is always praised for being an open platform.
 
It's not on Steam? Are they crazy?

I imagine it'll eventually make it onto Steam. Shadow Complex was originally PC exclusive to their launcher as well, and it's on Steam now.

It's also early access with a buy in. Initial people interested in it already know about the game, so Steam's discoverability doesn't matter as much right now. So no need to pay 30% to another store (Steam, GOG, etc.) right now if you can host your own service.

Once it gets closer to exiting early access is when I imagine it may appear on Steam.

But now that I know this, I'm absolutely not interested in entering Early Access right now. Not because I think it's wrong, but just that it's inconvenient. I used to have their launcher installed (I got Shadow Complex through it), but uninstalled it years ago.

Regards,
SB
 
yea but shadow complex didn't have micro transactions . If the game stays popular it might never come to steam , why give up 30% of sales.
 
yea but shadow complex didn't have micro transactions . If the game stays popular it might never come to steam , why give up 30% of sales.
Well there's the millions upon millions of PC gamers on Steam. At some point a smaller "publisher" like Epic, with very small user-base can do the math of losing 30% on 100,000 sales or selling 5,000 themselves (example figures of course).
 
Well there's the millions upon millions of PC gamers on Steam. At some point a smaller "publisher" like Epic, with very small user-base can do the math of losing 30% on 100,000 sales or selling 5,000 themselves (example figures of course).

It's not sales on 100,000 it's all the microtransactions. As long as they get their whales initially through their own store it won't matter how many players they don't pick up through other channels. As long as they maintain a meager player base and keep the whales spending they don't need to grow the player base one bit. That's how all F2P games are. Normal game sale rules don't apply.
 
yea but shadow complex didn't have micro transactions . If the game stays popular it might never come to steam , why give up 30% of sales.

Discoverability. There's a reason that F2P games come to Steam, you reach a much larger audience by doing that.

Many F2P games start off by not going to Steam. Then when user uptake starts to slow they put their games onto Steam to get a massive influx of new users.

Black Desert Online is the latest "fermium" MMO (microtransaction supported MMO with a low buy in and no monthly fees) to put itself on Steam after not being on Steam for quite some time. And it's seen a massive influx of new users as a result. Enough that prior to getting onto Steam many of the servers were starting be empty of players. After getting put on Steam, all of the servers are almost at capacity. And this includes the fact that they've put up new servers to accommodate the influx of Steam users.

Final Fantasy XIV (subscription based MMO) was initially not on Steam. With the Final Fantasy name, you'd imagine they'd never need to be on Steam to attract new users. But after a while, they put themselves on Steam and as a result got a massive influx of new users. I still use the non-Steam direct from Square-Enix version as that's how I started, and to use the Steam version, you have to buy the Steam version (same applies if you wanted to play on PS4).

The same goes for Warframe. It was originally not on Steam as well (I continue to use the non-Steam direct from Digital Extremes version just because that's how I started). They also got a massive influx of new users when they finally put the game on Steam.

Almost no one knows about Fortnite. Starting off Early Access without using Steam makes sense. During Early Access, you'll want less stress on your own company resources, and at the same time you get maximum revenue per user when your user base is at its lowest. Once you enter general release, you'll be looking to expand your user base. This is also the time when you may be losing more players than you are gaining. Putting the game onto Steam at that time will immediately lead to an explosion of new users.

It's not sales on 100,000 it's all the microtransactions. As long as they get their whales initially through their own store it won't matter how many players they don't pick up through other channels. As long as they maintain a meager player base and keep the whales spending they don't need to grow the player base one bit. That's how all F2P games are. Normal game sale rules don't apply.

Unfortunately, that's not how things go. All of the more successful F2P games on PC, will at some point put their game on the Steam Store. The only reason to not do that is if they decide they don't want to make a lot of money or have contractual obligations (Candy Crush signing a deal with MS, for example) or Steam won't accept them.

It's why there are a mind bogglingly large selection of F2P MMO's on Steam which weren't originally on Steam when they launched.

Regards,
SB
 
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F2P games come to steam because the publisher can't do it on their own. I don't see blizzard putting their games on it.

The game just needs to sell well if it gets popular it doesn't matter what store its on platforms like beam , twitch and youtube will get people into the game.
 
Though Epic has been around a long long time, they're not even close to the same level as Blizzard.
The point is if a game is popular and takes off on the social platforms they don't need steam it will sell enough. Player uknown battle ground would sell just as well on epic's launcher as it did on steam because of everyone playing it on youtube , twitch , beam and so on
 
F2P games come to steam because the publisher can't do it on their own. I don't see blizzard putting their games on it.

The game just needs to sell well if it gets popular it doesn't matter what store its on platforms like beam , twitch and youtube will get people into the game.

Did you even read what I wrote?

Warframe, a F2P game, started out independent of Steam. Most of the F2P MMOs on Steam started out F2P or were Pay to Play which later converted to F2P but still didn't move to Steam immediately.

Most of the F2P games on Steam don't start on Steam. Look at all the F2P clicker games that have flooded Steam recently. Almost none of them started on Steam. And all of them still have a non-Steam version available for play that is constantly updated inline with the Steam version.

Epic was resorting to giving away Shadow Complex for FREE in an attempt to get people to use their launcher and store. That's how I got it. It wasn't until much later that they ended up putting it on Steam. Even offering it for FREE couldn't get many people to use their launcher.

Now, none of this says that they won't keep it off of Steam, but they're only going to do that if they've basically given up on making a lot of money with the game.

Oh but those aren't big publisher's you say. Well, is Bethesda a large publisher? Because Fallout Shelter is on Steam. It's F2P and supported by microtransactions. Its Steam debut was delayed as Microsoft signed them up for early exclusivity on PC (outside of the Bethesda launcher) in the MS Store.

Whether people like it or not, the reality of PC gaming in the Western markets is that if you do not offer your title on Steam, you'll have limited visibility and limited interest. There's a reason why EA has the lowest PC games adoption rate of any of the big 4 publishers. And Epic doesn't have nearly the pull or resources that EA has.

Outside of the Western markets is a different thing entirely. Tencent is the major player in China with Steam playing catch up (they've grabbed a significant share as you can see by the flood of Chinese games and Chinese language comments in forums). And Steam still has very limited penetration in Korea which has a large PC install base. They are doing relatively well in Japan, but the Japanese market is dominated by mobile gaming followed by console gaming a distant second.

The fact is, it's not hard to release a F2P game outside of Steam. Everyone does it. But to be truly successful, they almost always end up having to put their game on Steam. This doesn't mean having their game on Steam exclusively. Most will maintain a Steam and non-Steam version. You get the best of both worlds that way. You gain the greater exposure and expanded user base from Steam at the cost of the Steam tax while keeping your smaller non-Steam user base with no Steam tax.

Regards,
SB
 
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I don't think it was that, as most people who were interested in playing Shadow Complex had already done so on last-gen consoles. It was a fun game, but not fun enough to want to play it again on a different platform.

I think a bigger reasons why EA has lowest PC games adoption is their games, sports titles, are better suited for consoles and the best bargain in town is playing them through EA Access. For a mere $30 a year you can play all of them. Even their FPS games like Battlefield and BattleFront and PvZ and TF is on EA Access.

Yes, you have some valid points, but there are multitude of other factors. It's not the almighty Steam or nothing anymore.
 
Did you even read what I wrote?

Warframe, a F2P game, started out independent of Steam. Most of the F2P MMOs on Steam started out F2P or were Pay to Play which later converted to F2P but still didn't move to Steam immediately.

Most of the F2P games on Steam don't start on Steam. Look at all the F2P clicker games that have flooded Steam recently. Almost none of them started on Steam. And all of them still have a non-Steam version available for play that is constantly updated inline with the Steam version.

So wait the clickers start off of steam and make a ton of money and then when they ring out all they can from that they put it on steam and give up a 30% of whatever they make on steam. Tell me more

Epic was resorting to giving away Shadow Complex for FREE in an attempt to get people to use their launcher and store. That's how I got it. It wasn't until much later that they ended up putting it on Steam. Even offering it for FREE couldn't get many people to use their launcher
. You mean the 7 year old game that they gave away for free to most likely test their launcher and store to see how it holds up to the stress of a lot of people wanting something for free ?

I'm not sure where your going with the shadow complex stuff

Now, none of this says that they won't keep it off of Steam, but they're only going to do that if they've basically given up on making a lot of money with the game.
Well as you can see from other companies they are able to make alot of money without steam also.

Oh but those aren't big publisher's you say. Well, is Bethesda a large publisher? Because Fallout Shelter is on Steam. It's F2P and supported by microtransactions. Its Steam debut was delayed as Microsoft signed them up for early exclusivity on PC (outside of the Bethesda launcher) in the MS Store.
Bethesda launcher is the only way to play quake champions there is no preorder up for steam . Seems to me that going foward bethesda will be using that. EA has origin , Ubisoft still has you sign up for thier u play stuff even if you buy a game on steam and so on.

Whether people like it or not, the reality of PC gaming in the Western markets is that if you do not offer your title on Steam, you'll have limited visibility and limited interest. There's a reason why EA has the lowest PC games adoption rate of any of the big 4 publishers. And Epic doesn't have nearly the pull or resources that EA has.
Thats why all of Blizzards games are failing right ? Thats why EA is shuttering Origin and Bethesda is putting quake champions on their own launcher ?

Outside of the Western markets is a different thing entirely. Tencent is the major player in China with Steam playing catch up (they've grabbed a significant share as you can see by the flood of Chinese games and Chinese language comments in forums). And Steam still has very limited penetration in Korea which has a large PC install base. They are doing relatively well in Japan, but the Japanese market is dominated by mobile gaming followed by console gaming a distant second.
The market can support multiple online stores for games and we should all hope more take off so we have competition.

The fact is, it's not hard to release a F2P game outside of Steam. Everyone does it. But to be truly successful, they almost always end up having to put their game on Steam. This doesn't mean having their game on Steam exclusively. Most will maintain a Steam and non-Steam version. You get the best of both worlds that way. You gain the greater exposure and expanded user base from Steam at the cost of the Steam tax while keeping your smaller non-Steam user base with no Steam tax.

Regards,
SB
I don't agree

Look you seem to really love steam. Dunno why its just a launcher. I perfer to have my games spread over multiple stores so if something happens i don't loose all my games. A game not being on steam wont make me not buy it.

I am sure Epic would rather have all the money flow through them then through valve and I am pretty sure that the game will do well enough that they wont care about sales lost on steam. I would also wager that epic has more games lined up that they will put on their launcher. Going foward we will see more and more stores pop up for the bigger companies.
 
It's not the almighty Steam or nothing anymore.

It shouldn't be. But it is still by far the storefront with the largest base of consumers willing to spend money on games.

My philosophy is thus. I believe all games should be available in all stores. Much like how physical games are. Now, not all stores may want to or be able to carry all games, but all stores should have the ability to carry any game available. This unfortunately, isn't the reality currently.

Now, it certainly may be that Epic will want to keep Fortnite only in their store, but if they choose to do so, they do so knowing full well that they are leaving a LOT of money on the table that they could be making.

This is why unless there are contractual obligations preventing it, all successful F2P games eventually put their games on Steam.

To put it more succinctly since I tend to get wordy and things can get buried in a wall of text. F2P games, from what I've observed tend to do the following.
  1. First, launch the game independently as much as possible.
    1. In the case of browser based games, this means initial launch on places like Kongregate or other such sites (like Crusaders of the Lost Idols).
    2. In the case of independent non-browser games, this means launching initially on your own website through your own store (like Warframe).
    3. In the case of one of the big publishers, this means launching initially in your own store (like Fallout Shelter).
  2. Once you've plateaued look to partner with other services. Usually this means Steam, GoG, the MS Store, etc.
You almost always launch first independently as you maximize your revenue. But your potential audience is going to be greatly limited and you'll soon reach saturation with that. There's not much point in launching though an established storefront unless you aren't capable of supporting the infrastructure to launch independently.

Once you're basically losing more players than you are gaining (IE - revenue is now dropping), you put it onto another storefront and get an immediate boost to revenue and userbase. Sure, you now have to share revenue, but that's better than continuing down the downwards spiral of losing users, which makes your game less attractive (if a multiplayer game), which means you lose more players, which makes it less attractive, etc.

I could go on and on with listing Micro-Transaction based games that have gone through this. The ones that haven't? They're basically all dead. Of course, putting it on Steam, once you start losing player retention isn't a guarantee of reviving your player base and thus revenue, but it gives you the greatest chance to do so.

Regards,
SB
 
welp back onto the topic of the game , i think i am going to get the $80 edition and it comes with a free copy. Let me know if anyone is interested
 
started playing the tutorial and so far its alot of fun. Can't play again till late tonight . I am blue-steel if anyone else is on
 
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