Fixed powerpacks versus replaceable AA's in controllers *spawn

[joker454]

When my friends ask me about the 360 I make a point of telling telling them about they have to buy batteries to use the controller. I am yet to hear anyone consider it a smart solution. Besides here of course..

And there's why I think part of this is a cultural difference, because here you don't have to buy batteries to use the controller since everyone has rechargeable AA's already whereas you do have to tell Sony buyers here that they have to buy another controller to be able to keep playing, or the ps3 tax as my friends called it when I was buying mine. Opposite results in different parts of the world. However I did try a search of "ps3 controller battery" and it auto completes to, in this order:

ps3 controller battery replacement
ps3 controller battery life
ps3 controller battery replacement how to
ps3 controller battery replacement wallmart
ps3 controller battery dead
ps3 controller battery fix

So given how search engines work, that implies irregardless of where you live in the world you should also be telling your friends that they will have to buy a replacement playstation controller at some point and/or a replacement battery for when they have to open the controller with a screwdriver to replace it.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

You probably conveniently leave out the part where PS3/4 batteries are not exactly user replaceable.

To be fair, I don't know anyone (other than joker and reportedly all the guys he worked with) having PS3 controller batteries die; in my experience controllers die from other reasons before the battery. So if giving advice, I for one wouldn't mention the cost of replacing a controller when the battery dies.

If your play exhausts the DS3 battery life, XB360's controller is better value. If your play doesn't lead to death of the DS3 battery, XB360's system costs more. There's no right or wrong preference without factoring in one's use situation, unless one can prove the DS3 controller will die and need replacing. In my case, I got through 2 PS3s (on third) so the cost of the controller really isn't a big facot.

 

[-tkf-]

You probably conveniently leave out the part where PS3/4 batteries are not exactly user replaceable. If the batteries go bad you either replace the whole controller, have to be wired all the time or take apart the controller to replace the battery with an aftermarket battery. Each solution has pros & cons. Yes, the Xbox solution is not cheap, but it's the most versatile solution. I will also agree I would have liked MS to include a rechargeable battery in the XB1 box, but oh well at least they gave me some options.

Tommy McClain

One of my 360 controllers had a battery leak, yeah awesome! The other has a dead play and charge kit.
When my kid plays now it's with the included recharge cable..

My 4 DS3 controllers doesn't have any problems. But if they did i could open my PS3 manual and read how to change the battery, which i can buy for $2 http://www.amazon.com/eForCity-1800mAh-Compatible-controller-Playstation-3/dp/B004I8II22/

If Microsoft had joined the rest of us in 2013 they would have included a rechargeable battery. Now i can pay $25 on top of the 500 http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-One-Play-Charge-Kit/dp/B00DBDPOZ4
However i am VERY happy that they went with USB instead of whatever strange connection they used to have.

 

[djskribbles]

The battery in my Sixaxis died after 7 years. At least I think it died... the LED indicators stopped working a few years ago. There were several things that went wrong with that controller before the battery died, so it wasn't worth keeping anyway. I got my moneys worth for sure, and it went through a lot of abuse.

My nearly 6 year old DS3 still works as it did when I first purchased it with no noticeable capacity reduction (still get 15-20 hours). Everyone that I know with a PS3 (5 people personally) still have their original controllers, but none of them purchased a PS3 at launch and their PS3's are only ~4-6 years old.

 

[joker454]

To be fair, I don't know anyone (other than joker and reportedly all the guys he worked with) having PS3 controller batteries die; in my experience controllers die from other reasons before the battery. So if giving advice, I for one wouldn't mention the cost of replacing a controller when the battery dies.

Remember, I never said any of us had a controller go bad. I regularly would have it die because I would forget to charge it which is why eventually I broke down and paid the ps3 tax, but the batteries never went bad on me or anyone I know because not many people I knew had a ps3 to begin with and the few that had it didn't use it much for gaming. In my case it's because I replaced my ps3 twice. My first 20gb launch ps3 broke and I had to buy a 40gb ps3 replacement which came with new fresh controllers, then I sold all that because I didn't trust the early ps3 models to not break after seeing them all systematically break in the office and replaced it with a ps3 slim which once again came with new controllers. So with all those new controllers of course the controller battery never went bad. The controller all of us used the most and which we all kept even when our ps3's broke was the ps3 bluray remote, but that takes standard AA batteries so dead batteries were never an issue.

Please share with me how many grams the built in battery in the ps4 is saving over replaceable. My AA rechargeables (NiMh) weigh 48grams (for 2), the play and charge battery is 40.

I did a search, seems like the ps3 controller battery is 41 grams.

 

[-tkf-]

So weight is a big deal but you don't know or care if your favored solution is lighter...

I care about the idea that if you complain about weight then it's because you must be a weak human being.

 

[AlphaWolf]

I did a search, seems like the ps3 controller battery is 41 grams.

Well 7 grams out of 250ish. I better hit the gym.

 

[joker454]

Well 7 grams out of 250ish. I better hit the gym.

Yeah I just do a few more pull-ups to compensate. More seriously though, the original ps3 controller was 137 grams in weight, and when they replaced it with the Dualshock 3 at 192 grams I don't recall anyone complaining that weight increase was a deal breaker. So talking about the weight difference between a pair of AA's and a custom battery (which incidentally are often just rechargeable AA's in a custom enclosure with some extra logic) seems kinda goofy.

 

[AzBat]

To be fair, I don't know anyone (other than joker and reportedly all the guys he worked with) having PS3 controller batteries die; in my experience controllers die from other reasons before the battery. So if giving advice, I for one wouldn't mention the cost of replacing a controller when the battery dies.

If your play exhausts the DS3 battery life, XB360's controller is better value. If your play doesn't lead to death of the DS3 battery, XB360's system costs more. There's no right or wrong preference without factoring in one's use situation, unless one can prove the DS3 controller will die and need replacing. In my case, I got through 2 PS3s (on third) so the cost of the controller really isn't a big facot.

Fair point, but if you keep replacing your console I can see why your controllers' batteries never die.

I'm on console 2(bought in March 2009 because I wanted a black console with HDMI Out). 1st console(bought in December 2006) never died. I'm still using the same controllers with the same Play & Charge batteries when I got both systems. I have 2 controllers & will swap the rechargeable pack if one is dead. I got wireless controllers so I wouldn't need to hook a wire to them. It's a good thing I always have one fully charged as I no longer can find my Play & Charge cable. I did find my AA packs though.

Tommy McClain

 

[AzBat]

One of my 360 controllers had a battery leak, yeah awesome! The other has a dead play and charge kit.
When my kid plays now it's with the included recharge cable..

My 4 DS3 controllers doesn't have any problems. But if they did i could open my PS3 manual and read how to change the battery, which i can buy for $2 http://www.amazon.com/eForCity-1800mAh-Compatible-controller-Playstation-3/dp/B004I8II22/

If Microsoft had joined the rest of us in 2013 they would have included a rechargeable battery. Now i can pay $25 on top of the 500 http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-One-Play-Charge-Kit/dp/B00DBDPOZ4
However i am VERY happy that they went with USB instead of whatever strange connection they used to have.

Sounds like you had a few lemons. No issues like that here.

As for XB1, it would have been nice to have a rechargeable pack included. When I do finally get the system I'll probably hold off getting the pack until later. AA's will work well enough until I save up for the rechargeable pack & a charging station. The USB connection is nice, as is not needing a separate AA battery pack that can get lost. LOL

Tommy McClain

 

[-tkf-]

Sounds like you had a few lemons. No issues like that here.

As for XB1, it would have been nice to have a rechargeable pack included. When I do finally get the system I'll probably hold off getting the pack until later. AA's will work well enough until I save up for the rechargeable pack & a charging station. The USB connection is nice, as is not needing a separate AA battery pack that can get lost. LOL

Tommy McClain

I am going for the play and Charge Kit, it will be just like my Playstation controllers, I am just annoyed about the price..

 

[djskribbles]

Fair point, but if you keep replacing your console I can see why your controllers' batteries never die.

I'm on console 2(bought in March 2009 because I wanted a black console with HDMI Out). 1st console(bought in December 2006) never died. I'm still using the same controllers with the same Play & Charge batteries when I got both systems. I have 2 controllers & will swap the rechargeable pack if one is dead. I got wireless controllers so I wouldn't need to hook a wire to them. It's a good thing I always have one fully charged as I no longer can find my Play & Charge cable. I did find my AA packs though.

Tommy McClain

So long-term reliability shouldn't be a concern then, even if you don't replace your console every few years. No one here that I know, or that I know personally, has experienced a dead battery before either. As I said above, my sixaxis battery did die after 7 years, but other things on that controller failed before the battery (by my own hand). And my DS3 is still going strong after 5-6 years. I'm sure there are some dead batteries out there, but Li-Ion batteries are very reliable and it doesn't concern me at all.

I have small issues with both controllers. Ideally I would prefer that the XB1 controller could charge NiMH inside the controller, and/or it would come with a rechargeable user replaceable battery at no additional cost. And for the DS4, ideally I would like the battery to be easier to replace by the user. But I don't have much of an issue with either tbh.

 

[AzBat]

So long-term reliability shouldn't be a concern then, even if you don't replace your console every few years. No one here that I know, or that I know personally, has experienced a dead battery before either. As I said above, my sixaxis battery did die after 7 years, but other things on that controller failed before the battery (by my own hand). And my DS3 is still going strong after 5-6 years. I'm sure there are some dead batteries out there, but Li-Ion batteries are very reliable and it doesn't concern me at all.

I have small issues with both controllers. Ideally I would prefer that the XB1 controller could charge NiMH inside the controller, and/or it would come with a rechargeable user replaceable battery at no additional cost. And for the DS4, ideally I would like the battery to be easier to replace by the user. But I don't have much of an issue with either tbh.

Coming up on 5 years I would hope not, but like -tkf- he had some lemons. Same could happen on the PS3/PS4 controllers, but on those the fixes are not something I would prefer. Basically it's like paying for insurance or a warranty. You hope you never need it, but when something bad happens you're glad you paid extra for the ease of mind.

Tommy McClain

 

[zed]

im in the rechargable AA batteriy camp, ok phones etc not obviously but for something large enuf, yets standardization for the win

 

[Strange]

Please share with me how many grams the built in battery in the ps4 is saving over replaceable. My AA rechargeables (NiMh) weigh 48grams (for 2), the play and charge battery is 40.

i expect the heaviest option available is a 10ft USB cable (even just the weight at the controller)

The battery itself inside the DS4 weighs ~24g, Maybe the stock battery weighs less, but if replacements are 24g then I'll take 24g. It's not like these replacement batteries aren't standard.

Considering you need the plastic housing for the AA batteries (while the non-replaceable are placed inside and rather do not need to be "designed around") , the difference is at least 20 grams+.

Unless you sit far enough so that the 10ft cable doesn't touch the ground, the weight of the cable doesn't exactly completely transfer to your hands you know?

I did a search, seems like the ps3 controller battery is 41 grams.

~40 grams seems to stem from 1800mAh batteries, which weigh ~1.5oz, or around, indeed 40 grams.

However, doing a bit more searching we can find some more information.

1. DS4 uses 1000mAh batteries,
2. DS3 uses ~500mAh batteries,
3. 800mAh ones weigh 18grams
4. 1000mAh batteries weigh ~24 grams, as I have found above.

So if 1800mAh batteries weigh 40g, 800mAh batteries weigh 18g, I don't think the DS3 with its whopping 500mAh invests anything above 20g in the battery department.
Thus the statement that it weighs 40g is very likely faulty.



Do remember, these lithium ion batteries are relatively light compared to it's size. NiMH ones (usually AA rechargeables) are, in turn more dense (relatively the same in terms of power/weight though), and apparently lose charge even if unused.

The significant disadvantage of NiMH batteries is the high rate of self-discharge; NiMH batteries typically lose 4% of their charge per day of storage.

 

[Jwm]

The battery itself inside the DS4 weighs ~24g, Maybe the stock battery weighs less, but if replacements are 24g then I'll take 24g. It's not like these replacement batteries aren't standard.

Considering you need the plastic housing for the AA batteries (while the non-replaceable are placed inside and rather do not need to be "designed around") , the difference is at least 20 grams+.

Unless you sit far enough so that the 10ft cable doesn't touch the ground, the weight of the cable doesn't exactly completely transfer to your hands you know?





~40 grams seems to stem from 1800mAh batteries, which weigh ~1.5oz, or around, indeed 40 grams.

However, doing a bit more searching we can find some more information.

1. DS4 uses 1000mAh batteries,
2. DS3 uses ~500mAh batteries,
3. 800mAh ones weigh 18grams
4. 1000mAh batteries weigh ~24 grams, as I have found above.

So if 1800mAh batteries weigh 40g, 800mAh batteries weigh 18g, I don't think the DS3 with its whopping 500mAh invests anything above 20g in the battery department.
Thus the statement that it weighs 40g is very likely faulty.



Do remember, these lithium ion batteries are relatively light compared to it's size. NiMH ones (usually AA rechargeables) are, in turn more dense (relatively the same in terms of power/weight though), and apparently lose charge even if unused.

True, but usually NiMh will recharge again. I have a race pack from 1994/95ish (green Sanyo cells) that will still take a charge, these were a pack I abused in racing. I now use them in my son's hovercraft.

LiPo/Lion if you allow them to self discharge below a certain voltage they will usually not recharge. Or they will have reduced capacity and be flat. If you are going to store them for any period of time, you put them in the fridge at around 50% charge. If you leave them stored at 100% you can actually also reduce their capacity and life. Leaving them in a device that leaks can kill them, for example soft switches vs mechanical. I was tired one day (ok most days), and did not pull the LiPo pack out of my plane, I just hung the whole thing up. Came back on Monday and pulled the pack to charge it. It was a $150 mistake that I have never made again. I think this is why my DS3 has battery issues, we would go months without touching it or would use a 3rd party controller instead. It still works, but only for about 45-mins--basically it is a wired controller until I decide to crack it open.

I like A123 cells, but they just will not fit in anything I use for gaming/computers.

 

[RudeCurve]

Eneloops are LSD....so unless you only game once every 3 months the low self discharge isn't going to be an issue. Li-ion batteries also self discharge...

 

[eastmen]

Eneloops are LSD....so unless you only game once every 3 months the low self discharge isn't going to be an issue. Li-ion batteries also self discharge...

I have eneloops that are a year old and still have 50 to 60% of their charge even though they haven't been used.

Anyway the ease of the aa batteries over comes the built in battery of the dual shocks. My ps3 controller was allways dead and would require me plugging it in and as it got older I had to replace the battery in it since it wouldn't charge that fast.

For $40 bucks I got an eneloop charger and 12 eneloop batteries . The one controller takes 2 at a time , so I can change out the batteries 6 times and never have the problem of them not being charged.

 

[Jwm]

Monoprice has now released a play & charge kit that is 750mAh for X1. In their text they say 650mAh though, hmmm? I will stick with my Eneloops, I like the idea but not the capacity. Price is easy enough to buy two I guess.

Link

 

[betan]

Monoprice has now released a play & charge kit that is 750mAh for X1. In their text they say 650mAh though, hmmm? I will stick with my Eneloops, I like the idea but not the capacity. Price is easy enough to buy two I guess.

Link

Slightly off topic but that part is funny (and inaccurate):

Unlike the Playstation® 3 controllers, which can only be charged when plugged into the Playstation system, this battery pack can be charged from any USB power source that is capable of putting out at least 200mA of power, which includes almost every USB port, charger, and external battery charger ever made.