Fixed powerpacks versus replaceable AA's in controllers *spawn

[mrcorbo]

I wasn't trying to correct, just make a point

As for the rechargeable battery pack, Fuck that. I am so tired of my 360 controllers crappy battery system. Even the one with a actual official Microsoft rechargeable battery pack is crap, it doesn't charge anymore, and the one that runs on normal battery had a battery leak, welcome to the freaking 90s.

I often have to take the corded 360 controllers and plug in to the 360 when the kids wants to play minecraft.

As for the ps3, if people are able to keep their mobile phone charged, then it shouldn't be a challenge to keep your controllers juiced up. I can see others have different feelings about this, but that is one of those things that I have a very hard time*. And this is based 100% on actual experience with the different controllers. Damn I get angry thinking about the xb1 ridiculous battery solution.. grrr

The solution is to buy enough rechargeable AAs to equip all of your devices that take them + 4 to populate a charger. Do this once and never have to worry about dead batteries again on any of those devices.

I also find it inconsistent that you are so against spending money on games and media when there is a chance that your access might possibly be revoked some day, but have no problem dropping $50+ on a device that has been designed to definitely stop working after a certain number of charge cycles.

 

[mrcorbo]

No idea. Do you know?

No idea? Come on. It's going to be a low number.

But what other people do or do not do or know doesn't affect my personal cost of ownership. Like the discussion about people who don't buy Live/PSN cards cheap, they aren't a considerable for me. A lot of people could save a lot of money if they were smarter about how and where they buy things and how they service them, but they aren't. If they're ok paying extra that doesn't bother me in the slightest.

I'm less arguing that it is expensive and more arguing that it is a less desirable model from a user perspective. Having internal batteries that are not intended to be user replaceable saves on cost and allows for smaller form factors. Other than that, I see them as a net negative, and weigh them as such when I make purchasing decisions.

 

[Brad Grenz]

I'm less arguing that it is expensive and more arguing that it is a less desirable model from a user perspective. Having internal batteries that are not intended to be user replaceable saves on cost and allows for smaller form factors. Other than that, I see them as a net negative, and weigh them as such when I make purchasing decisions.

So between everyone being forced to buy replacement batteries regularly and a small fraction of the user base eventually running into problems with holding a charge after years of use, enough to require repair or replacement, you think the former is more desirable to users? Even after accounting for the cost and form factor benefits? I don't think you understand users very well.

 

[RudeCurve]

I see non user replaceable internal batteries as a negative as well. The XBO controller is the optimum design with its standard AA battery design.

I also like the removable battery in my PSP even though it's proprietary.

I don't like the non removable battery in my Iphone but I don't use it for hours at a time so it's tolerable considering the size of the phone.

 

[mrcorbo]

So between everyone being forced to buy replacement batteries regularly and a small fraction of the user base eventually running into problems with holding a charge after years of use, enough to require repair or replacement, you think the former is more desirable to users? Even after accounting for the cost and form factor benefits? I don't think you understand users very well.

Why would anyone be forced to buy replacement batteries regularly? I've been cycling through the same set of rechargeables for 2 years now, only adding to those when I acquire a new device that takes them or have an existing device's alkalines run dead.

Secondly, you left out the following advantages:

• I can go from dead to full charge on any of these devices in 2 minutes.
• If for some reason I were to go on a portable power use rampage and have multiple devices all go dead at the same time (which has never happened) I can cannibalize the batteries from lesser used devices until I can charge enough to have a full supply again.
• I can leave devices where they are used instead of always having to put them where they can be charged.
• It's significantly cheaper to replace fading batteries than fading devices.

There is much more effort involved in keeping those of my devices that are intended to be used in the home that have proprietary batteries (removable or not) charged than those that take standard "AAs". This is not an opinion. This is fact. Video game console controllers fall into this category.

 

[Brad Grenz]

The point is you have to buy batteries, and even rechargables eventually lose their capacity and need replacement. And I fail to see what is so convenient about scrounging for batteries compared to plugging a $2 USB extension cable into any of the half dozen USB chargers probably in your home right now. I fail to see how swapping enloops in and out of a charging station is in any way faster or more convenient than plugging in a micro USB cable. And in case you are still missing the point, you can put a USB charger right next to where you play and never worry about anything.

 

[djskribbles]

There is much more effort involved in keeping those of my devices that are intended to be used in the home that have proprietary batteries (removable or not) charged than those that take standard "AAs". This is not an opinion. This is fact. Video game console controllers fall into this category.

How is it harder? Keep your controller charging when not in use, either with the PS4 in standby, or with a cell/wall charger/dock. If you don't have multiple phone chargers (many households do) you can find them on ebay for a few bucks. If you have an outlet nearby, you can put one there to charge your DS4 when it starts to run out of juice. Or just buy a long USB cable. Or those portable Li-Ion charger packs for cellphones will probably work too, and you can find those for <$20, about the same price of a good set of NiMH batteries (ie. Eneloops). There are many ways to avoid battery issues... there's not much 'effort' involved in keeping them charged at all.

The only issue with non-user replaceable batteries is when they die and need to be replaced, and that shouldn't happen for a few years at least.

There's pros and cons to both battery arrangements. I honestly wouldn't have an issue with either. I have no issues with my DS4, and I have several eneloops lying around for if I did own an X1.

 

[Bigus Dickus]

I dunno... I like the idea of wireless controllers staying wireless. I also like the idea of always being able to put in fresh batteries when needed. With a 4 and 7 year old in the house who play games, having the controllers always returned to the charger simply isn't realistic, despite my parent of the century award. I like that after 8 years my controllers hold a charge like new, and I didn't even have to think about whether the batteries were losing their edge, nor go shopping online to order a suitable replacement... it gets taken care of without thought as I cycle batteries through various devices and continually retire/replace those getting a couple or three years old. I like that if occasionally I, as the one responsible for keeping things charged, fail to have fresh batteries available, I can always temporarily swap in a pair of alkalines (of which there are always some around) while others charge.

Regarding non-replaceable batteries, I like that they allow smaller form factors. I suppose that's about it.

 

[Rurouni]

Sorry for the OT post, but you guys should read http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/article/how_to_prolong_lithium_based_batteries if you want to know what exactly shorten the battery life and how to prolong it. Basically it is not the charge cycle itself that shorten the battery life but a combination of temperature, voltage, current.

Edit: you can have more charge cycles while having longer battery life. It's better to charge immediately (as in you're using around 25-50% and charge it) vs running it empty and top it up to 100%.

 

[RudeCurve]

The point is you have to buy batteries, and even rechargables eventually lose their capacity and need replacement. And I fail to see what is so convenient about scrounging for batteries compared to plugging a $2 USB extension cable into any of the half dozen USB chargers probably in your home right now. I fail to see how swapping enloops in and out of a charging station is in any way faster or more convenient than plugging in a micro USB cable. And in case you are still missing the point, you can put a USB charger right next to where you play and never worry about anything.

The point is you're forced to go from wireless to wired. If being wired was so great why not just leave the cord plugged in?

Also there's no scrounging around for batteries. I already have a ton of rechargeables for my other devices so I always have them sitting in the charger to swap into the controller. My wireless computer mouse is the same way since it only lasts about 4 days at 8hrs a day of usage.

 

[Brad Grenz]

The point is you're forced to go from wireless to wired. If being wired was so great why not just leave the cord plugged in?

If you aren't daft you can plug in the controller whenever you stop playing and literally never have to play with it plugged in. And if you're smart you are plugging into a wall charger next to your seat so it's never an inconvenience. And if you're cheap you only spent ~$2-5 dollars total for your cable/charger versus god knows how much on disposables over the course of a generation, or expensive rechargeables (and replacements) and their charger for which the act of fiddling with batteries alone is more time consuming than inserting a micro-usb connector each time you stop playing. And for the normal user you may never run down the rechargeable battery's capacity in a Dual Shock enough for it ever to be a problem, and if you have two controllers you've literally doubled the lifetime for both, but if you have a controller that requires AA you definitely have to spend money to keep them running, and if you have more controllers you just need more batteries.

 

[-tkf-]

I dunno... I like the idea of wireless controllers staying wireless. I also like the idea of always being able to put in fresh batteries when needed. With a 4 and 7 year old in the house who play games, having the controllers always returned to the charger simply isn't realistic, despite my parent of the century award. I like that after 8 years my controllers hold a charge like new, and I didn't even have to think about whether the batteries were losing their edge, nor go shopping online to order a suitable replacement... it gets taken care of without thought as I cycle batteries through various devices and continually retire/replace those getting a couple or three years old. I like that if occasionally I, as the one responsible for keeping things charged, fail to have fresh batteries available, I can always temporarily swap in a pair of alkalines (of which there are always some around) while others charge.

Regarding non-replaceable batteries, I like that they allow smaller form factors. I suppose that's about it.

It works fine here, it's not like our tablets have replaceable batteries, not does the DS, the PSP the Mobile phone. In some magic way those devices that in no way matches the battery life on the Dual Shock 3 and to some extent the DS4 is seeing no issues and thet don't have a replaceable battery.

The first time they come to a tablet without power they learn that this little white plug has to be in the tablet when they leave it.."Can i bring the DS tomorrow..? where is the charger?"*

But of course, when it's controllers it's practically impossible to understand how it can work without a removable battery pack..? But for everything else it's a non issue.. i simply don't get it...

*On my 360 they have learned that the wireless doesn't work, so they plug in the cable instead..

 

[Deleted member 11852]

No idea? Come on. It's going to be a low number.

Why has it got to be a low number? If you have reliable data, tell us all. But saying "it's going to be [low]" when you don't know is silly.

I'm less arguing that it is expensive and more arguing that it is a less desirable model from a user perspective. Having internal batteries that are not intended to be user replaceable saves on cost and allows for smaller form factors. Other than that, I see them as a net negative, and weigh them as such when I make purchasing decisions.

I guess it depends on the user. I don't want to worry about buying or recharging AAs so the DS3 is close to optimal for me. It lasts for ages, charges quick and if the battery ever dies, I can replace it easily, quickly and cheaply for £6.

From watching YouTube vids I can see the DS4 will take a bit longer to disassemble but this isn't something I'm going to be doing often, if at all. Before writing it off, let's give it a few years. Sony make batteries, they understand battery technologies.

FWIW, my DS3's are both fine. I have had cellphone batteries start to fade on me, though due fairly frequent charging (I use my phone to stream media while I'm at work). I was pleased in these cases to have bought models with replaceable batteries.

I've swapped a battery in an iPhone 3GS and thats a real pain in the arse. The DS4 is nowhere near that user hostile, nor is at laptop-level hostile where it's typical for batteries now to be glued to the chassis.

I am concerned with the DS4's short battery life necessitating more charge cycles and cutting short the controller's useful life. Hopefully this is addressed in a later revision (along with some of the other issues).

I had the same concerns when with the Dual Shock 3 but I've now owned so many rechargeable devices - PocketPC, Palm, iPods, phones, three tablets, 9x laptops, 3x PS3 controllers - that battery life is no longer a concern me except on cheap devices. But knowing that before long, cheap repair kits will be available for the DS4, as they were for the DS3, means this is a non-issue for me. Of course if you're not comfortable disassembling a controller your position may be different.

But given PS4 is outselling Xbox One, concern about controller batteries is clearly not a deterrent for millions of consumers.

 

[djskribbles]

I've owned 2 DS3/Sixaxis controllers, 4 phones, 3 tablets and 2 laptops. Only my original sixaxis from launch recently stopped holding a charge, after 7 years! Mind you that it wasn't used much over the past 5 years. Everything else, I've had no issues over the time that I've owned them. My DS3 that I purchased when it was originally released (2008) is still the controller that I use to this day and it still lasts me 15+ hours. My current phone (Nexus 4) has a non-user replaceable battery and it doesn't bother me one bit. I gave my old phone (HTC Incredible S) to my dad and it's still running on the original battery after 3-4 years.

 

[Rurouni]

Or you just use my strategy on xbox and buy a bulk 100 pack of double A's for $22 and you are done forever, or at least the next few years

Again, sorry for the OT.

Actually I don't mind AA. But instead of buying 100 AA, I would buy 2 pair of AA eneloops (so that you'll always have a pair of charged battery ready). In my country it would cost less than $15, probably $20 with the charger. Luckily I already own lots off eneloops AA so won't be buying regular AA anytime soon. FYI, eneloop now has a gen3 version that can be recharged 1800 times.

Basically I like everything to be removable or at least easy to remove. Not only battery, but also removable buttons, sticks, etc, so when they do wear, I can replace it myself with very little effort. But I do understand the need to use li-ion to reduce the bulk and I definitely would like for it to be removable.

 

[mrcorbo]

The point is you have to buy batteries

That's already been done years ago. And not specifically for the controllers, I have other devices that use them, too.

..and even rechargables eventually lose their capacity and need replacement.

Has yet to happen in any noticeable way with the batteries I have bought.

And I fail to see what is so convenient about scrounging for batteries compared to plugging a $2 USB extension cable into any of the half dozen USB chargers probably in your home right now.

Has never happened, but I could if I needed to. If a sealed-battery controller's dead I need to put up with being tethered and have no other recourse.

I fail to see how swapping enloops in and out of a charging station is in any way faster or more convenient than plugging in a micro USB cable.

Once, no. But I need to swap the batteries out much less often than I would need to plug and unplug the microUSB cable to maintain full charge.

And in case you are still missing the point, you can put a USB charger right next to where you play and never worry about anything.

See above.

Not saying having to keep a controller plugged in to charge it is unmanageable. Just saying it's worse than the alternative, which it is.

 

[-tkf-]

T Just saying it's worse than the alternative, which it is.

In your (humble?) opinion. I think it absolutely sucks to have it in any other way, but that is 100% my humble opinion.

 

[mrcorbo]

Why has it got to be a low number? If you have reliable data, tell us all. But saying "it's going to be [low]" when you don't know is silly.

I'm making an educated guess based on my prior experience with people. One that I'm comfortable would be confirmed to be correct should someone ever decide to do a scientific poll.

I guess it depends on the user. I don't want to worry about buying or recharging AAs so the DS3 is close to optimal for me. It lasts for ages, charges quick and if the battery ever dies, I can replace it easily, quickly and cheaply for £6.

Buying those batteries once, years ago, means that I never have to worry about the level of charge on the devices that take them until they are almost dead, at which point it is a simple procedure to get that device to a fully charged state. My net amount of worry is less with those devices.

But given PS4 is outselling Xbox One, concern about controller batteries is clearly not a deterrent for millions of consumers.

It didn't stop me from buying one, any more than it stopped me from buying a PS3. Still would have preferred that they used standard rechargeables, though.

 

[mrcorbo]

In your (humble?) opinion. I think it absolutely sucks to have it in any other way, but that is 100% my humble opinion.

Let's consider for a moment that you, personally, have two different controllers. One has sealed batteries and can be charged via any of the micoUSB cables you have available. One takes 2 AAs. You have two batteries in the controller and two in a charger.

Which controller takes more *effort* to keep charged over the course of a month?

 

[-tkf-]

Let's consider for a moment that you, personally, have two different controllers. One has sealed batteries and can be charged via any of the micoUSB cables you have available. One takes 2 AAs. You have two batteries in the controller and two in a charger.

Which controller takes more *effort* to keep charged over the course of a month?

I have several different controllers, 360 cabled, 360 Wireless, one with a official battery pack, one without and 4 x PS3 + 2 x PS4 controllers.

Since mini and micro USB are and have been a standard for a long time i have no problem keeping the PS3+PS4 controllers alive. The 360 on the other hand, is a clusterfuck, non standard charge cable for the battery pack (that is dead i think..). And as i mentioned earlier, i had the joy of battery spill in the other wireless controller.. yiiha

So.. i would have to buy a recharge kit plus at least 8 AA rechargeable batteries just to keep those 2 x 360 controllers going wireless.
Lets add 2 more for each PS3 controller that is another 8 (16 if i wanted to keep them wireless in any case)
And another 4-8 for the PS4 controllers.

So i need a charge station that can handle at least 12-24 batteries at the same time, plus a bunch of batteries and then i just need to keep track on what is charged and what isn't.. yep.

Or i could just say, screw it, i will charge the controllers instead of the batteries..

Shouldn't this thread be rename with a "respawn" ?