Fixed powerpacks versus replaceable AA's in controllers *spawn

Discussion in 'Console Industry' started by mrcorbo, Feb 2, 2014.

  1. dobwal

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    I have PS3 controllers and two XB1 controllers. One with a charge and play kit and one with rechargeable batteries.

    I was motivated to buy the rechargeable batteries last night just to see whats all the fuss is about. LOL.

    I see nothing to time consuming or irritating about having to ocassionally plug in a controller via USB to a console or replacing some AA batteries when a controller's battery gets low.

    Maybe this experiment will change my mind.
     
  2. function

    function None functional
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    Welcome to the AA-Team.

    I call dibs on being B.A.A. Baracus.

    "Time to cut those apron charging strings, and man up with some batteries, fool."
     
  3. joker454

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    Hey, it's a spawn thread. You usually spawn these types of threads for them to super nova and then die so I'm just speeding that along.


    Yes drm! The message! That's what I really meant to say. Poor Microsoft, if only they were allowed to implement....The Vision (tm), if only! It's a sad day. Because no one here ever complained about the inconvenience of having to get up and swap discs. No, that Never Happened (tm). Sometimes I think I must be reading a parallel universe version of b3d where you guys don't see the same stuff. How convenient that having to swap discs is no longer Inconvenient (tm) or a Hassle (tm), yeah those types of comments never happened on b3d. Nope, never.


    See my previous posts, or see below.


    These ones:

    - mobile phone
    - tablet
    - laptop

    ...have to be uber thin so they have to go totally custom for battery design and placement. Designing them to be as small as possible is the goal, not to be able to change battery.

    These ones:
    - headsets
    - perhaps portable mouse/keyboard with removable batteries
    - portable video camera

    ...all of which I have, I use removable batteries with. I never plug them in to charge them and in fact aside from camera gear you can't actually plug them in to charge them. Do you really plug those in to charge them? I use AAA batteries with my headset, AA with all our mice/keyboards, and V batteries with my cameras and video cameras. With camera gear the separate battery charger recharges the batteries way faster than plugging in the camera, so why would anyone ever plug one in?

    This one:
    - portable electric toothbrush

    ... you obviously can dock because it's the dock is always right next to the sink. Unless you take your tooth brush upstairs and brush in a different room, then to dock it downstairs.

    This one:
    - telephone

    ...had removable batteries but custom, that charged when docked. Which incidentally sucked because all the batteries went bad and rather than just use standard AA'a we were stuck buying new custom batteries at much greater expense. I ended up throwing away all the phones and cancelling our land line because it was cheaper to buy all new phones than replace the dead custom batteries so I used that as a good reason to finally cut away from the land line.

    This one:
    - gaming controller

    ...well apparently some people love to dock it every night and/or cross their fingers that it doesn't die during game play and/or play with a cable. I didn't understand it before, I don't understand it now, and I wont understand it in the future. Makes no sense to me. It's a large device, put AA's in there, done.


    It depends on the device. For controllers I think having to connect them to charge them is as silly as having to connect a tv remote control to charge it. It makes zero sense to me. Controllers are a zero down time device, they always need to be functional and ready to go, ready at all times. They have the room for standard replaceable batteries, so use standard replaceable batteries and presto no down time ever! They are not supposed to be docked and connected while waiting to be usable again, they are always supposed to be usable just like tv remotes. Phones would be the same way if the battery tech existed to make it happen. Just like you can swap a micro sd card on a phone because they made them small enough to be supported on a phone, if batteries that small were possible then you can be sure there would be phones that support that because phones, like tv remotes and game controllers are zero down time devices, they always have to ready to use and not tethered to the wall because they are low on power. There are no suitable replaceable batteries for phones to do that though so they are still stuck with the old world limitation of being connected to an outlet while people wait to be able to use them again. Some use external batteries to get around that mind you.

    Aside from thin for factor devices like phone and ultrabook, I don't think we have anything at all that we plug in to charge. Hell even my lawn mower and power tools use replaceable batteries!
     
  4. Bigus Dickus

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    For the record, I know a few people with android phones who travel enough to have bought spare batteries and chargers. Not something I need to do as my job allows me to plug my phone in at my computer anytime I may need to for a refresh, buy it seems their usage and travel patterns make it necessary.

    BTW, realized that the one piece of technology I would suffer greatly at work without, my supermouse!, has just the charging solution MS should have gone with. Standard AA batteries, the mouse is the charger when plugged in via USB, and the mouse can operate wired via USB either when necessary to charge the batteries or even without batteries.

    And if it weren't for the fact that I typically work at a different computer in a different room often in a different building from day to day, making it somewhat more of a pain to carry around spares and a charger, I'd totally do that as I DESPISE having to use my mouse while tethered. I try to keep it charged by plugging in overnight, but as I sometimes work 24+ hours at a time it is unavoidable.
     
  5. aaaaa00

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    Sigh. Why is this even an argument?

    If you want to use an integrated Li-Ion with microUSB cable charging, just buy the play and charge kit, and forget about AA batteries.

    If you want a controller docking station to recharge, you can get that too.

    If you want to use removable generic rechargeable AAs like Enloops, you can totally do that too.

    If you want to use standard removable AAs, that works just as well.

    With all these methods, you still get superior battery life (like twice or three times more) on the Xbox One controller compared with the DS4, and you can't really argue with the flexibility the Xbox One controller gives you. Plus, when the battery does eventually wear out (this is guaranteed to happen by physics and chemistry), you can just replace that one part, instead of mucking about with the controller internals or buying an entire new controller.

    So it costs a little bit more. So what. The Xbox One's solution is better, more flexible, gives you more battery life, and is user serviceable.

    Why is this even an argument?
     
    #65 aaaaa00, Feb 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2014
  6. Strange

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    It's an argument when people have to gauge the cost of doing it against the "different" functionality. Not to mention that the statement of this configuration is better itself is (shockingly to some) debatable.
    Interestingly the 4 choices that you brought up all have one thing in common: You actually have to buy something extra., as opposed to only requiring a USB cable to satisfy (pretty much) all of your requirements.

    Essentially the debate is

    DS4+USB line = $59.99

    versus

    XB1 controller + play and charge = $59.99 + $24.99

    XB1 controller + (minimum) 2 Rechargable AA batteries = $59.99 + $5 ~ $10

    XB1 controller + Standard AA batteries every 30~40 hours = $59.99 + alpha.





    Many of us keep our DS4s plugged in while playing and a battery life of >10 hours isn't exactly an issue.

    Lets not forget that AA rechargeables weigh ~ 30 grams each, totaling ~60 grams for two.

    http://dx.com/p/ddr41-3-7v-1000mah-li-ion-nb-3l-battery-pack-for-canon-ixus-ii-ixus-iis-sd100-more-black-277535#.UvH6Q_mSxLc

    While DS4's battery is ~30 grams.



    This all adds up to the DS4 weighing ~ 210 grams versus the Xbox One controller's ~280 grams.
    Believe it or not the 70 gram difference is a full 1/3 of the DS4's weight. It may not matter to any of you, but for some the additional weight isn't exactly welcome when it doesn't help our experience.

    I don't know if the 280 grams includes the AA batteries, so if one of you would be kind enough to actually weigh the controller without the batteries put in, it would be a better/accurate comparison.
     
    #66 Strange, Feb 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2014
  7. RudeCurve

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    If you're going to argue about weight then might as well argue about comfort/ergonomics which many feel the XBO is superior at.

    aaaaa00 is correct about battery life too...with 2500mAh AAs the XB controller lasts a long time before needing a recharge. I've never done a test but I'm guessing around 12hrs or more of straight usage just from how long the 2000mAh Eneloops last. Maybe even 16hrs...
     
    #67 RudeCurve, Feb 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2014
  8. Nesh

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    I am totally against using AA batteries. They are a waste. But what would have been optimal, is if Sony had the battery in the controller in a way that its user replaceable just like smartphones (not referring to the idiocy that is the iPhone)
     
  9. Strange

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    Comfort/ergonomics is a subjective issue.
    Mass of the product is (again, shockingly) not!
     
  10. RudeCurve

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    Actually mass when talking about comfort is subjective as well especially when there is only a 70g difference...some people may notice it some may not. Only in back to back testing the small weight may be perceivable.
     
  11. Strange

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    I'm not even going to argue with you. Your tendency to use blatantly false arguments is too much for many of us to swallow and doesn't help the conversation.

    If we go along those lines I'll go ahead and put forward that battery life is also a subjective issue so it doesn't matter. End of argument.


    Side note: I can't seem to find the exactly weight specifications for the play and charge battery pack nor could I confirm the 280g is for the controller sans battery or controller with _____.
    Would help if anybody can with one of them could be nice and weigh it for everybody. I personally can't do it because it's unavailable in this continent.
     
    #71 Strange, Feb 5, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 5, 2014
  12. Shifty Geezer

    Shifty Geezer uber-Troll!
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    1/3 difference is significant. Sixaxis weighed 137g. DS3 weighed 192g. That's only a 55g difference but it was very noticeable at a 40% increase.
     
  13. RudeCurve

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    And you're blatantly ignoring FACTS. The affect of mass especially when it's miniscule IS subjective. If you're a weakling then it may ruin the experience but if you're healthy then no...I'm sorry...it will have no affect. You're trying too hard dude...give it up.

    Your use of the term significant IS subjective. It may be significant to YOU doesn't mean it will be significant to everyone else. Being able to tell the difference has nothing to do with having a negative effect. For example I've fired many handguns and there's a wide range of weights to them. For me the weight only becomes significant if it's over 2lbs....for other's like women it may be 1lb for body builders it may be 5lbs....ALL subjective.
     
    #73 RudeCurve, Feb 5, 2014
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  14. Shifty Geezer

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    I'm talking mathematically. 70g is massively significant if the increase between a 1g feather and a 71g pebble. It's insignificant compared to a 1000 kg car and a 1000.07 kg car. For comparing difference in measures, it's generally best to use the relative measure.

    As for the impact on user, that's subjective. I don't know anyone unable to play on DS3 because it was too weighty. But I was never talking about that. ;)
     
  15. -tkf-

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    There is no argument, the Playstation controllers do by far include the best and most modern solution.
    The charger and battery is included, the Microsoft solution requires you to invest in chargers and batteries, it's like going back to the days of the walkman. I own BOTH.. ehmm all consoles and i find the 360 and WII solution to be pretty terrible and annoying. I consider the made up DS3/D4 issues to be pretend issues that my real life experience have taught me is totally invalid, it is NOT a problem to keep your DS3/DS4 controllers charged.

    Then again that is just my opinion :)
     
  16. Phil

    Phil wipEout bastard
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    I guess we have differing view points then. An IR remote (which is, I just realized, the only device that still relies on AA batteries in my household) is perhaps the exception for me where AA batteries are tolerated. It's tolerated because the IR remote will survive for about a month with fully charged batteries, until I will have to worry about finding a new spare.

    Any device I use that has a life span of less than a day or a week would be pretty much an annoyance to keep track with an additional charger. Under this category for me fall devices such as pretty much any CE device in my household (laptops, tablets, smartphone, and yes, including gaming controllers as well). If all of them relied on AA batteries, I would have to keep track of AA batteries and at least a spare to keep them going when one of them dies due to an empty battery. Given the unlikely hood that all of these devices use the same batteries or amount, I would need a few spares for each device.

    Charging via cable, or USB, has made life easy in that sense. My smartphone is charged on a regular basis over night (because it just about gets through a day), so it's always fully charged in the morning. The other devices I mentioned, can be run with a cable plugged in, if needs be, where using and charging at the same time is not a problem. The same applies to the DS3 or DS4 controller. When I don't use it, it's not a big inconvinience to just plug it in, so that technically, it's always ready to go. Or, in my case, having a spare controller eliminates the need to have one plugged in during not-usage.

    No need to buy batteries and no need to use an additional universal charger.

    I'm quite frankly baffled at the amount of people who prefer the Xbox solution over this. It makes me wonder how people reacted when the first devices started appearing that did not use generic AA batteries but relied on accumulators and were chargable via cable (doesn't really matter if it's a USB or a power cable).

    There might be an argument that most of these devices offer the possibility to swap the battery and technically, charge outside the device by buying an additional optional charger, but really - how many people have done this? Probably less than < 3% and the people who do probably have a good reason to.

    Same applies to the prospect of having the possibility that if a battery fails/breaks, that you could swap it out with a new one. Sure. But how many times has this happened to even make it a consideration? From the phones I've had in the last 15 years that had a lifespan between 1-3 years, it never happend. Controllers? The same - my DS3 (which is now aged 7 years) is still going strong. Even if the life span on a full charge might be reduced by 30%, it's lasts way over 10 hours, so it's not even a factor.

    DS4 might only last 10 hours (I think) on a full charge in its new state and in a couple of years, that might be reduced considerably depending on usage, but the chances are that once you do reach the point it becomes an issue, the general wear and tear might make you consider buying a new controller instead of simply wanting to exchange a worn out battery.

    So even if the batteries in a DS4 were replacable (the best of both worlds scenario) - I'm highly doubtful that in reality, people would actually charge the batteries outside the controller through a seperate purchased charger or replace the batteries. They might tout it as an advantage, a nice feature, but one that in reality would get close to zero usage.

    On the Xbox, people might be more inclined to do this, since you are used to nothing else. On the PS, which I see as a personal benefit, you don't.
     
  17. Nesh

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    The good think with the DS4 is that it can be charged even when the console is off AFAIK. If the controller can last ten hours before becoming fully discharged you can just plug the controller on the PS4 when you finish. It would be a problem only if you play more than 10 hours straight.

    Now about the battery dying, none of my PS3 controllers had any issues with the battery so far. So I doubt the DS4 would have a problem
     
  18. dobwal

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    Different strokes for different folks. But I highly doubt any of you would make your console choice based on the charging method of a controller.

    There is nothing intensive or complicated about using universal rechargeable batteries, charge and play kit or built in rechargeable batteries. Keeping a controller charged is not an exercise of frustration for any method. The XB1 allows for multiple solutions, some at a cost. The PS4 provides one. In any case, it easy to manage. With the PS4 its just a matter of plugging up your controller after a few gaming sessions to keep it up and going. With the XB1 its a matter of preference, do the same as with the PS4 or use replaceable rechargeable batteries if you are so disincline to tether a controller to a console when not in use.

    Unless, you game for long periods of time (10 hours+), all methods are easily accommodated. And if you game that much, investing in an extra controller is hardly an inconvenience, as most hobbies require or encourage more investment the more time you devote to it. You are getting far more value in terms of dollars invested per total time used than a normal user.
     
  19. Phil

    Phil wipEout bastard
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    True. Although I was just going on the assumption that if a battery does display signs of wear and its capacity is reduced by 20% (hypothetically), a DS3 that lasted 30 hours will drop to 24 hours (which is insignificant since no one is ever likely to play for 24-30 hours continueously to notice the drop in performance) whereas a DS4 that lasts 10 hours give or take, will drop to 8 hours, which is likely to be more noticable.

    In other words, if my 7 year old DS3s had a drop in performance, I (and you) wouldn't know, since they still last for way over 20 hours I'm sure. If in 7 years down the road, the DS4 has a similar drop, I'd more likely notice it, given *I* have extended sessions of 5 to 10 hours (seldom though). Not a big deal for me personally, just something to keep in mind.
     
  20. Cyan

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    Actually, X360 and Xbox One's gamepads can be recharged when the console is off, too. This also includes the Wii. The only problem is that the X360 doesn't really turn off -fixed on the Xbox One- and the X360 is a loud console even when on standby.

    tkf, I like the PnP charge kit because it gives you a lot of flexibility, as aaaaaaaa0000 has explained already. The Xbox One battery is so light -such is the new gamepad too- and you can also play just using your USB cable, whether the battery is plugged or not.

    That's a huge feature for me.
     
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