first r420 review leak

[jimmyjames123]

First of all, you need more marketable features. I still don't see PS 3.0 being very marketable.

Second, ATI has better quality with their 6X MSAA mode, not to mention Temporal AA.

Third, ATI's parts are less obtrusive and run cooler...meaning more OEM friendly. And it doesn't take much of a stretch to imagine they are overall cheaper to manufacture. So ATI is in a better position to compete based on price....which is likely exactly what's going to happen this gen.

Joe, just wanted to expand on some of these points.

First of all, whether we think it is appropriate or not, NVIDIA is going to go to great lengths to market full support for SM 3.0. Remember, they did effectively market the FX 5200 as a DirectX 9.0 card. This time around, NV actually has a more competitive card in their hands, and they have a lot of developer support too. I guess all we can really do is wait and see what tangible benefits will come out of SM 3.0 support.

On the second point, you are correct at this time. However, it seems that the Forceware 61.11 leaked drivers have some new AA modes that look better than standard 4x and do not have anywhere near the hit of the 8xAA used in the initial set of reviews. Will be interesting to see what comes out of this.

Third, you are correct regarding the 6800U. The less expensive 6 series cards, however, should be single slot cards that are much more OEM friendly. Even the 6800U, with it's imposing physical characteristics, seemed to be relatively cool to the touch in the intial reviews, and some reviewers were able to run it using as little as a 250 watt PSU.

 

[trinibwoy]

Re: completly disapointed.

The other review quoted the XT at 499 same price as the 6800U

So how's that NVDA stock doing? LMAO!!

Like we don't know who you are.

Uh I hope you don't think it's me (didn't see any other reference to stocks in this thread). If so you are severely retarded my friend :?

 

[ninelven]

If you hate something don't you do it too, don't you?

And now for something helpful:

Sanctusx2 wrote:
Would temporal AA work in a game funky game like Final Fantasy XI that caps your FPS at 30?

I don't think you would like the result, but that's just me. Of course, if 30fps is below the default threshold then you wouldn't be seeing any temporal AA anyway.

 

[jvd]

First of all, you need more marketable features. I still don't see PS 3.0 being very marketable.

Second, ATI has better quality with their 6X MSAA mode, not to mention Temporal AA.

Third, ATI's parts are less obtrusive and run cooler...meaning more OEM friendly. And it doesn't take much of a stretch to imagine they are overall cheaper to manufacture. So ATI is in a better position to compete based on price....which is likely exactly what's going to happen this gen.

Joe, just wanted to expand on some of these points.

First of all, whether we think it is appropriate or not, NVIDIA is going to go to great lengths to market full support for SM 3.0. Remember, they did effectively market the FX 5200 as a DirectX 9.0 card. NV is definitely aggresive with marketing, and they have a lot of developer support this time too.

On the second point, you are correct at this time. However, it seems that the Forceware 61.11 leaked drivers have some new AA modes that look better than standard 4x and do not have anywhere near the hit of the 8xAA used in the initial set of reviews. Will be interesting to see what comes out of this.

Third, you are correct regarding the 6800U. The less expensive 6 series cards, however, should be single slot cards that are much more OEM friendly. Even the 6800U, with it's imposing physical characteristics, seemed to be relatively cool to the touch in the intial reviews, and some reviewers were able to run it using as little as a 250 watt PSU.

Well remember there is only 1 p.s3.0 capable part out there. There are now 3 parts out there capable of real ps 2.0 the r3x0 series , nv4x series and r420 series .

So while nvdia will be courting devs for p.s3.0 it wont be the main platform . 2.0 will .

ALso the lower end cards may have more friendly heatsinks. But the prime won that wins the benchmarks wont

 

[AlphaWolf]

First of all, whether we think it is appropriate or not, NVIDIA is going to go to great lengths to market full support for SM 3.0. Remember, they did effectively market the FX 5200 as a DirectX 9.0 card. NV is definitely aggresive with marketing, and they have a lot of developer support this time too.

ps3 is gonna be a rough sell until nvidia provides a card that can do it for under $200. How much effort is that market worth for a developer? Until then its just something that may or may not impact in the future. I think devs will remember the 5200 as well, and remember that it can't run ps2 shaders.

 

[SsP45]

First of all, whether we think it is appropriate or not, NVIDIA is going to go to great lengths to market full support for SM 3.0. Remember, they did effectively market the FX 5200 as a DirectX 9.0 card. NV is definitely aggresive with marketing, and they have a lot of developer support this time too.

ps3 is gonna be a rough sell until nvidia provides a card that can do it for under $200. How much effort is that market worth for a developer? Until then its just something that may or may not impact in the future. I think devs will remember the 5200 as well, and remember that it can't run ps2 shaders.

I remember someone saying that most dev's treat the 5200 and 5600 as DX8 cards.
________
Lamborghini diablo history

 

[indio]

is the NDA up at midnight est????

 

[Joe DeFuria]

First of all, whether we think it is appropriate or not, NVIDIA is going to go to great lengths to market full support for SM 3.0. Remember, they did effectively market the FX 5200 as a DirectX 9.0 card.

Because it IS a DX9 card, and Dx9 support is a HUGE marketing check-box.

I still stand by my assertion that SM 3.0 is as "marketable" as PS 1.4 (DX 8.1) is over DX 8.0. That is...not much.

However, it seems that the Forceware 61.11 leaked drivers have some new AA modes that look better than standard 4x and do not have anywhere near the hit of the 8xAA used in the initial set of reviews. Will be interesting to see what comes out of this.

Yes, that's true.

Third, you are correct regarding the 6800U. The less expensive 6 series cards, however, should be single slot cards that are much more OEM friendly.

Yes, and did you see the rumored specs of the 6800 non-ultra? Yeeech...

On a performance basis, the R4xx architecture certainly appears more "friendly." This isn't new, of course. Obviously, the 6800 non ultra will be more friendly than the Ultra...but how will it compare to the ATI part?

 

[Ostsol]

Well remember there is only 1 p.s3.0 capable part out there. There are now 3 parts out there capable of real ps 2.0 the r3x0 series , nv4x series and r420 series .

So while nvdia will be courting devs for p.s3.0 it wont be the main platform . 2.0 will.

Nothing wrong with aggressively marketting the technology, though. If TWIMTBP means SM 3.0 available in a render path for cards that support it, all the better. The more accustomed ISVs become to using it, the sooner we'll see it become the norm once it becomes available in more video cards.

 

[regener8]

I wonder how well the X800 stacks up against the 6800 in Doom 3.

 

[nelg]

Holy Cow! 17 Pages before digitalwanderer posted. Screw the benchmarks, that is a new record.
Seriously I was getting worried.

 

[jvd]

Well remember there is only 1 p.s3.0 capable part out there. There are now 3 parts out there capable of real ps 2.0 the r3x0 series , nv4x series and r420 series .

So while nvdia will be courting devs for p.s3.0 it wont be the main platform . 2.0 will.

Nothing wrong with aggressively marketting the technology, though. If TWIMTBP means SM 3.0 available in a render path for cards that support it, all the better. The more accustomed ISVs become to using it, the sooner we'll see it become the norm once it becomes available in more video cards.

well its hard. Twimtbp has to make the games playable on the crap that nvidia has sold for the last 2 years first , then they can worry about p.s 3 suppot. But look at farcry . Why are all the benches using p.s 1.1 instead of 2.0

 

[jvd]

I wonder how well the X800 stacks up against the 6800 in Doom 3.

well that new compresion is supposed to speed up stenciel stuff isn't it ? So it might compare well

 

[jimmyjames123]

I got the impression from reading the 3dcenter translated article that the GeForce 6 series is a very scaleable architecture. Whether that translates into feature set too in unclear. Guess we will just have to wait and see.

 

[Sabastian]

Well remember there is only 1 p.s3.0 capable part out there. There are now 3 parts out there capable of real ps 2.0 the r3x0 series , nv4x series and r420 series .

So while nvdia will be courting devs for p.s3.0 it wont be the main platform . 2.0 will .

ALso the lower end cards may have more friendly heatsinks. But the prime won that wins the benchmarks wont

Thats right PS2.0 has an installed base. Nvidia will be courting all of its TWIMTBP partners though to implement PS3.0 in their software. The only way they can do it is if there are few bugs and it is simple and relatively easy to do. However developers are not going to be interested in supporting features that cause problems with the wider installed PS2.0 based cards so.. Since ATi did not support PS3.0 the situation is analogous with the DX8 pixel shaders in a way. ATi went on too PS1.4 while NV stuck with PS 1.1-1.3 leaving ATi trying to sway developers into supporting it. The difference being though is that NV is in a much better position to lure developers into using PS3.0.

 

[digitalwanderer]

Holy Cow! 17 Pages before digitalwanderer posted. Screw the benchmarks, that is a new record.
Seriously I was getting worried.

Sorry, I was watching CSI with the wife.

Besides, I'm just watching all the fun right now. It's too early to determine anything other than the night before a launch is always a fun forum night. 8)

 

[DemoCoder]

First, I take SM3.0 to include many of the NV40 features like FP blending, geometry instancing, and of course, VS3.0/PS3.0. Yes, technically, PS2.x cards can have some of these features, but none do, so it's moot.

Some devs are not writing code for "PS2.0" or "PS3.0". They are writing HLSL shaders. Shaders that may or may not run faster by retargeting the compile to SM3.0. For example, predicates to compile conditionals.

Another example is HDR rendering on Half-Life2, which with some simple changes, may run alot faster using FP16 blending on the NV40 rather than using shaders to do the blend.

Still another example is Geometry Instancing support, which on some titles, like Battle for Middle Earth, which have hundreds of models on the screen at once, could be a big throughput advantage.

And of course, Half-Life2's animated displacement maps could be done entirely on the GPU with vertex texturing and render-to-vertex buffer.

Not every feature on the NV40 requires alot of developer work to enable.

This is in contrast to the position when PS2.0 arrived on the scene, and devs has to learn a completely new API and way of doing things.

 

[jvd]

I got the impression from reading the 3dcenter translated article that the GeForce 6 series is a very scaleable architecture. Whether that translates into feature set too in unclear. Guess we will just have to wait and see.

what do you mean by scalable . Clock speed ? well i dunno how much higher they can go. Look at the heatsink on it already.

Adding more pipes ? sure but that will take time to do so it will most likely be a new tap out (mabye that is the nv45 that taped out ) new featurs well i'm s ure its more complicated than just saying hey lets put in p.s 4.0 . Okay . done. I'm sure that would take a half a year to do

 

[Ostsol]

Nothing wrong with aggressively marketting the technology, though. If TWIMTBP means SM 3.0 available in a render path for cards that support it, all the better. The more accustomed ISVs become to using it, the sooner we'll see it become the norm once it becomes available in more video cards.

well its hard. Twimtbp has to make the games playable on the crap that nvidia has sold for the last 2 years first , then they can worry about p.s 3 suppot. But look at farcry . Why are all the benches using p.s 1.1 instead of 2.0

That kinda has more to do with NVidia's hardware design than developer relations. . . There's no doubt that SM 3.0 will be pushed only to the point where it'll run well on their cards. Whether a developer decides to experiment beyond that point has nothing to do with NVidia. Still, even a bit of support for the tech would be great.

 

[Rican]

it might not be so rough there is a few title that are going to use p.s 3.0 some and by the time p.s 3.0 becomes the standar both ati and nv will have their next gen of cards out but we still dont know how good the 6800 can run p.s 3.0 hopefully it will run kind of decent