first r420 review leak

[quest55720]

Re: completly disapointed.

Marketable or not if perfomance is the same ill go with features all day long.

What about image quality? Is that not a "feature?"


Of course IQ is a feature but if there are so close you can only tell with 10x magnification of a screen does it really matter.

At 1280x960 the difference from 4AA to 6AA is not going to be noticable to 90% of people.

And PS 3.0 is "noticable" to exactly zero % right now, and maybe what 2% down the road?


When I got my 9700 pro SM2.0 had zero usefullness.

I am not talking OEM I am talking mind share.

I thought you were talking about ATI being "sunk"? Who has the mind-share in the growing market of SFF PCs?

Mindshare is who people think has the most powerfull card out there. It builds reputation and eventually spreads to the average users.

NVIDIA just got a free extension by ATI. People are going to hold out a few more weeks for a superior product if these leaks are true.

What superior product? What $399 nVidia product is superior to the $399 XT Pro?

The other review quoted the XT at 499 same price as the 6800U

 

[jvd]

Personally, I'd wait until atleast PCI-E versions are available. I feel it is a mistake to invest in a new card at this point.

Well, that's fine of course if you're planning up upgrading your system to PCI-E...

It's less of a mistake to "invest" now than it will likely be going forward. We are on the front end of the next "step change" in performance. Ask the folks who bought 9700 Pros when they first shipped, if that was a mistake...given that the following 18 months were just clock bumps...

got it on launch day through ati . best thing i ever did . 2 years now and it still runs all the games i want it to run at the res i want it to run .

I don't plan on getting pci x for another year . Will mostl likely get a a64 3200 in a normal board to go with the r420 or nv40 . I like the fact that the r420 takes up less room and from playing with temporal aa on my 9700pro it looks to up the image quality again .

 

[digitalwanderer]

Re: completly disapointed.

What superior product? What $399 nVidia product is superior to the $399 XT Pro?

The other review quoted the XT at 499 same price as the 6800U

Uhm, Joe put "XT Pro" which I think he intended to mean as the "X800 Pro" but got confused since he's a bit old, daft, and muddled at times.

The X800 Pro was listed at $399, and looked like a hella deal.

 

[Sanctusx2]

Would temporal AA work in a funky game like Final Fantasy XI that caps your FPS at 30?

 

[SsP45]

Would temporal AA work in a game funky game like Final Fantasy XI that caps your FPS at 30?

Should work and look amazing in it.
________
MARRIAGE ADVICE DICUSSION

 

[DemoCoder]

Well, that's fine of course if you're planning up upgrading your system to PCI-E...

Even if you're not. By July, new SKUs are going to be released that a) might be much faster b) street price of X800 pro might drop significantly because of it.

It's less of a mistake to "invest" now than it will likely be going forward. We are on the front end of the next "step change" in performance. Ask the folks who bought 9700 Pros when they first shipped, if that was a mistake...given that the following 18 months were just clock bumps...

The folks who bought the R300 did not have potentially new cards coming out in just 2 months that would peform much better. The R420 isn't enough of a step either. It has no new real SM features, so it won't be as much of an insurance policy as the R300 was. What if ATI ships a SM3.0 card with better performance than X800 PRO within 12 months?

The situation that made the R300 a great investment 18 months ago is not the same as it is today. Even a lot of Rage3d posters are saying they're going to wait for the XT.

 

[Sabastian]

There is really going to be a lot of problems for nvidia I think in producing the NV40 on mass. I really do think that the 222million transistor chip is going to cost them. ATi with their 160 million transistor chip ought to be able to manage better yields. I really think that if you actually want to get an NV40 you will probably have quite a time getting it. In terms of cost and availability ATi might just have a winner. The performance thing for me is still in the air but it looks like performance will be relatively the same with the NV40 having a slight edge even though the NV40 is packing nearly 60million more transistors.

Further OEMs might well prefer a single slot solution with a lower power draw not too mention the R420 is more compact in terms of length. Cost wise to produce the R420 is a ++ for third party card suppliers. They don't need to have the massive cooling and the additional cost of the extensive PCB both of which put a strain on their margins. The R420 seems like a very competitive product even though it might not be the undisputed performance king.

ATi ought to be able to make the R420 very price competitive compared to the NV40. If rumors are true about the NV40 it is supposed to be in limited supply though leaving the lower performing NV4* varieties for the mainstream + which really might make the NV40 irrelevant in terms of market share. If ATi can get these cards to the market in far enough advance they should well be able to manage some good margins before dropping the price for the NV40 to actually hit the market.

A question enthusiast might want to ask themselves is when will the 6800 Ultra or the platinum varieties be available? [rumor]Given that IBM has lost the contract and TSMC has not produced one NV40 as of yet things might be running a little behind schedule.[/rumor] Some reason I think NV is in for another ruff ride even though they might be able to claim king of the hill with the NV40. But now we are hearing rumors of an early R500 release in late fall or early 2005 which seems rather bizarre if you ask me but it is all part of becoming king of the hill and the crown it brings with it.

In terms of performance though the NV40 might well be touted as the fastest bestest.(have to wait and see more reviews though Bjorn and THG have been less then sympathetic towards ATi in the past.) The R420 is more practical however. Enthusiast will want to have an NV40 if they can get it or afford the upgrade.(likely would require a new PSU.) Realistically, the R420 should end up in more enthusiast boxes then the NV40. But lower more mainstream cards from nVidia might be very competitive. The NV40 will command a high margin but it won't be much for NVDAs bottom line. With it though it gives them great bragging rights which have a tendency to lift sales of lower performing mainstream cards.

 

[jvd]

well democoder we had the threat of the nv30 being the uber card. That never happened .

I doubt we will see new cards in jully , mabye sept , but een then i doubt it .

 

[quest55720]

Re: completly disapointed.

What superior product? What $399 nVidia product is superior to the $399 XT Pro?

The other review quoted the XT at 499 same price as the 6800U

Uhm, Joe put "XT Pro" which I think he intended to mean as the "X800 Pro" but got confused since he's a bit old, daft, and muddled at times.

The X800 Pro was listed at $399, and looked like a hella deal.

Myself personally I am going to by the top end card if i get one so the x800 pro is a complete non factor.

 

[DemoCoder]

You doubt you'll see the X800XT by july shipping? By september? Are you dense, or did you not realize I'm talking about holding off on the X800PRO until the X800XT is available?

 

[Joe DeFuria]

Even if you're not. By July, new SKUs are going to be released that a) might be much faster b) street price of X800 pro might drop significantly because of it.

And a few months later, prices can drop more as newer cards get introduced, etc.

So, what else is new?

The folks who bought the R300 did not have potentially new cards coming out in just 2 months that would peform much better.

Yes they did...the NV30 was supposed to do just that.

The R420 isn't enough of a step either. It has no new real SM features, so it won't be as much of an insurance policy as the R300 was. What if ATI ships a SM3.0 card with better performance than X800 PRO within 12 months?

Honestly, DC...do you really think SM 3.0 is any significant insurance policy? Insurance for what?

These cards are doubling performance of the previous cards. That is what "this generation" is about. Performance.

 

[JCLW]

What is this?

the rage thearter chip that has been on every radeon since my 64 meg vivo .

Neither my 8500LE, my 9600pro, nor my 9800pro has a Rage Theater chip on it. Your 7000 VIVO would have it because of the VIVO.

Does this mean that these x800s are VIVOs?

 

[jvd]

You doubt you'll see the X800XT by july shipping? By september? Are you dense, or did you not realize I'm talking about holding off on the X800PRO until the X800XT is available?

The folks who bought the R300 did not have potentially new cards coming out in just 2 months that would peform much better. The R420 isn't enough of a step either. It has no new real SM features, so it won't be as much of an insurance policy as the R300 was. What if ATI ships a SM3.0 card with better performance than X800 PRO within 12 months?

you said this

THe xt is going to be in limited supply just like the 6800ultra and it is not signifigantly faster . Its sorta like the 9500pro situation .

meaning it wont be the fastest card out but it will be the best bang for the buck. My sister still enjoys her 9500pro and she will most likely continue to enjoy it till the end of this year

 

[digitalwanderer]

Re: completly disapointed.

Myself personally I am going to by the top end card if i get one so the x800 pro is a complete non factor.

Well you will definately be in the minority on that one, the mid-end/low-end is going to be what most people get.

Personally I'm gonna start trying to beg some IHV's tomorrow to see if I can get one when they start shipping retail and I'll take whatever I can get!

 

[Rican]

will the nv 45 be agp too or just pci -x this is off topic but iam just curious

 

[Slappi]

Re: completly disapointed.

The other review quoted the XT at 499 same price as the 6800U

So how's that NVDA stock doing? LMAO!!

Like we don't know who you are.

 

[DemoCoder]

Yes they did...the NV30 was supposed to do just that.

NV30 was an unknown Joe. The 16-pipe X800 is being LAUNCHED tommorow, complete with benchmarks. Big difference.

Honestly, DC...do you really think SM 3.0 is any significant insurance policy? Insurance for what?

SplinterCell-X atleast. It is, in fact, more of an insurance policy than PS2.0 was, because it is far more likely that PS3.0 features will get utilized vs the lifespan of the R300, due to the fact that HLSL/D3DX Effects framework has been available for current engines to integrate over the last 18monthys, which makes it much easier to take advantage of multiple shader models without alot of extra work. Many games can get PS3.0 usage via selective recompile of shaders, or, simply tweaking some rendering paths.

These cards are doubling performance of the previous cards. That is what "this generation" is about. Performance.

So the previous generation, R300 and NV30 wasn't about PS2.0 at all, right? So NV3x was a great card, because over the last 18months, there were hardly any PS2.0 games, and it ran DX8 fine. Is that what you're saying? It was about performance, and not what shader model features the NV3x supported?

Oh, no,...wait, I get it. The last generation was about features. This generation (when ATI has no new features), it's about performance. I see.

 

[trinibwoy]

Re: completly disapointed.

If all this is remotely true then NVIDA just ko'd ATI this round. With less features you better have much better performance than the competion. Well the king has returned to the throne. ATI deserves it they got arogent and lazy if you ask me. They are trying to milk an architecture for 2 years now. They had a chance to drop the bomb on NVIDA with the real R400 last year. Kinda of funny all the good will ATI has built up has just gone up in smoke. The only chance to save this is to under cut NVIDIAs pricing but it does not look like they will.

Hey Troll please go away!!

 

[quest55720]

Re: completly disapointed.

The other review quoted the XT at 499 same price as the 6800U

So how's that NVDA stock doing? LMAO!!

Like we don't know who you are.

Believe me I am not any buddy famous. Just a person who likes to play games.

 

[jvd]

So the previous generation, R300 and NV30 wasn't about PS2.0 at all, right? So NV3x was a great card, because over the last 18months, there were hardly any PS2.0 games, and it ran DX8 fine. Is that what you're saying? It was about performance, and not what shader model features the NV3x supported?

problem is unlike nvidia , ati is not bragging about things the r420 can barely do .

Its no oh well we can do 32fp and thats better than 24fp .

THey say , we can do p.s2 faster than our old cards with better image quality that is better than the other cards can do .

I have yet to see if the nv40 can do ps 3.0 well. Look at farcry and all the errors that are in the new patch on p.s2.0

not to mention i've been waiting for p.s2.0 games for the last year to no avail , i think i'm going to be waiting a year for p.s3.0