First DX9 compliant GPU?

[Sabastian]

Now I would be the first to admit that I have some bias towards ATi. But I selected ATi for the reason that on this I think they will be first. Nvidia seems to be dragging their feet on developing new technology, by this I mean I doubt given the fact they refuse to support DX 8.1 fully that this is a priority so much as making sales with high margins.(Case in point the GF4 series, this is supposed to be a new generation yet it is only fully supporting the lesser DX 8.) Given the fact that ATi has a larger engineering team then nvidia I would suspect that they are able to focus on developing the hardware easier. Nvidia with its rather lesser team is trying to diversify their product range. eg.nForce etc... ATi on the other hand has also to show nvidia up to maintain drive and gain market share back. I suspect that shortly after the arrival of DX9 ATi will have the R300. I think that nvidia may be facing some issues why for example did they not trump the Radeon 8500 supporting HOS (n-patches) and DX8.1-1.4 pixel shaders? They still have not. So nevertheless my vote is on ATi.


Sabastian

 

[Typedef Enum]

I think I can answer that question...Why? Because, it wasn't worth the "cost" to get DX8.1 into silicon. By cost, we're not just talking about $$.

I think they simply looked @ the thing from a top-level perspective, and said...

"OK...We would like to come out with a chip that has this kind of trans. budget <insert ~60 Million-some-odd in here>, and would like to achieve ~ 300 MHz. clock...AND roll some newer technology into the architecture as well (Accuview + LM2). If we want to provide the DX8.1 functionality, it will have a cost associated...IE poorer yields, lower clock, etc."

Something along those lines...If there were legit. games taking advantage of it, I could see it...But lets look @ the cold hard facts...The GF3 has been around for 12 months now, and there is barely ONE title out that even takes advantage of 10% of what the GF3 can actually do...What's the point of DX8.1?

The only game that appears on the horizon that might actually harness DX8.1 is UT2, which is scheduled to ship in June...and we have already seen what the Ti4600 can do on early drivers AND Beta software...so it really does seem rather moot.

One other thing that a lot of people tend to overlook are the roadmaps themselves...these features are locked in a *long* time before they ever see the light of day...something to think about as well...nVidia doesn't just decide what a NV25 will consist of 6 months before the thing launches.

 

[Humus]

While keeping a lead in features maybe doesn't do much for games (until the cards are too old for it anyway) it certainly is a good way to keep developers preference. Developers wants to play with the features, even if they might not end up in the final title. As it is now most developers are using nVidia cards in their primary develoment computer. It's very much in nVidias interest to keep it that way. If they get too far behind in features they may start to loose developers over to ATi. I think one of the reasons (among many others) why 3dfx went under is that they didn't add any new features. The developers that jumped on the 3dfx bandwagon in the Voodoo1 days moved over to other vendors in the Voodoo3 days.

 

[nAo]

Given the fact that ATi has a larger engineering team then nvidia I would suspect that they are able to focus on developing the hardware easier

How do u know ATI has a larger engineering team than nVidia?

 

[Mulciber]

I see it like this
nVidia, the marketing wh0res they are, will announce a DX9 card 1 day before ATI. (it always end up like that)
ATI will have their card out of the gate first, and of course, the drivers wont be that great.
2 weeks to 1 month later, nVidias DX9 card will come out and have faster AA and more mature drivers.

I voted nV because I would bet money that they will publicly announce theirs before ATI.

 

[Guest]

The R300 will support DirectX 9 and whatever Microsoft build in it.

 

[Kristof]

Who the heck voted for PVR?

Who me , no ?

I was told to think positive

K-

 

[Ascended Saiyan]

Who the heck voted for PVR?

Who me , no ?

I was told to think positive

K-

ROFL!


I would have to say that ATI will be the first to have a fully Directx 9 GPU but I still think that Matrox will be the first to have some feature support especially Diplacement mapping.

 

[elimc]

ATI actually has two engineering teams. An East and a West team. Their total combined strength is 500. I would be surprised if nVidia had this many engineers.

My vote goes to ATI. Of course I may be biased considering I have financial assets in ATI.

 

[Sabastian]

ATI actually has two engineering teams. An East and a West team. Their total combined strength is 500. I would be surprised if nVidia had this many engineers.

My vote goes to ATI. Of course I may be biased considering I have financial assets in ATI.

I was under the impression that ATi had upwards of 900 enginers. I am not sure what nvidia enginer headcount is but from what I understand to be the case is that it is considerably smaller then ATis' team. I know that nvidia is making an effort to change this. I may be wrong about all of this ( and please correct me if I am wrong.) as my info is possibly dated or incorrect all together.

Sabastian

 

[Guest]

The R300 will support DirectX 9 and whatever Microsoft build in it.
And they will be the first to and that ain't an assumption eithter


<quote> test </quote>

 

[elimc]

From what I've heard, ATI has 500 engineers divided into two teams working directly on the chips. Maybe the 900 figure includes all engineers in the company or maybe my info is inaccurate. Really, I don't think that nVidia's engineer team is all that small. They did hire a portion of the 3DFX engineers and that would probably also include Gigapixel engs.

Just for fun I will estimate nVidia's engineering strength: 180-400

This is a totally off the wall estimate, but you can join in the fun if you want.

 

[multigl]

yeah because we all know how much gets done when you have a room rull of 250+ engineers all working on the same project LOL

 

[Althornin]

You get several things with that many engineers:
1) World Peace
2) Solve the worlds energy problems
3) REALLY good nachos.

 

[Gunhead]

I voted correctly for Nvidia since "GPU" is a marketing term of theirs.

 

[Gunhead]

As to ATI's massive West and East (Canada, I presume) teams, one is somehow reminded of Brook's Law in the software domain:

"Adding manpower to a late software project makes it later."

( http://www.tuxedo.org/jargon/jargon.html#Brooks's%20Law )

 

[pascal]

check this software engineering book: http://s1.amazon.com/exec/varzea/ts...444/qid=1016247020/sr=1-1/002-3678308-4825631

Many things apply to hardware/system development.

 

[LeStoffer]

http://www.theinquirer.net/16030203.htm

RV 300 is an exciting product. The ones who have seen the spec are "thrilled to bits" about it, and it's far nearer than most expect.

Hmmm, well, let's see how ATI launched the 8500 last year.
May 2001: ATI unveils TRUFORMâ„¢ rendering technology
July 2001: ATI unveils SMARTSHADERâ„¢ technology
August 2001: ATI introduces RADEONâ„¢ 8500, the world's fastest, most advanced technology graphics board
October 2001: Windows XP-ready RADEONâ„¢ 8500 graphics board shipping

My guess is that we should see the R300 ship in september (why not?) with a Press Release regarding some tech in May (or April).

Regards, LeStoffer

 

[Doomtrooper]

I win ..I know its late but I'm going to toot my own horn..

 

[demalion]

I win ..I know its late but I'm going to toot my own horn..

Heh, the only post I saw in the thread from you...wasn't exactly full of "winning" guesses.

8500XT, clock speeds, TMU count...etc.