Final confirmed Jan NPD's

Shipped or sold? Includes Europe or not? Throwing out 1 million a month without details makes it hard for anyone to follow.

Didn't MS say 10 million head start by Nov and then only sell 6 million? shocking/disturbing/surprising/interesting?

Double standard?

They said 10m by ps3, they hit 8m - made up the rest the following month.

Look, 20% off is bad, 50% is terrible.

1m manufactured ... I assumed they weren't building them for fun but perhaps I was wrong and they didn't expect to sell them, just admire the stacks of ps3's in warehouses.
 
Shocking, disturbing, surprising - no, no, and no. Afterall, I was at 300k for Jan Chef; I'm 50k short. Why would I be shocked, disturbed, or surprised? Does it surprise you that my estimate had nothing to do with Sony or their claims? Maybe you should stop paying attention to what these execs have to say to begin with; they're not unbiased sources you know. ;)

Do I find it interesting? Of course I do - all data is interesting.

While I admire your prediction accuracy, I'd have to say these numbers weren't just thrown out to the media. Many other people are counting on somewhat accurate sales ramps of ps3. Devs, Publishers, Stockholders, Movie Studios and George Foreman all have a lot riding on these sales projections.;)
 
They said 10m by ps3, they hit 8m - made up the rest the following month.

No, they hit ~6.5m and only like 8.5m by end of Dec.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6162726.html?sid=6162726


Look, 20% off is bad, 50% is terrible.

1m manufactured ... I assumed they weren't building them for fun but perhaps I was wrong and they didn't expect to sell them, just admire the stacks of ps3's in warehouses.

Now you are worried about how many PS3 are manufactured a month? Do we even know those numbers? You need more things to worry about, have a child or two and you will gain an new perspective on life :LOL:
 
In all seriousness, regardless of system, can't we just have fun playing games, I know I am.

Me too. And you know, I'm personally finding Star Trek Legacy to be a lot more "engaging" (Oh, I'm so witty!) than the reviews would ave lead me to believe.
 
I want to make clear that none of my points are made from the standpoint of Sony being market leader after this gen; they are from a failure/success standpoint. I think that Sony can lose yet still have achieved its goals.

Hypothetical:If Sony not being market leader is the cost for Sony to achieve their goals it may well be worth it for them. But the question then becomes what about their partners in the game industry? Their goal is to sell games. Would it not sour their relationships with publishers if the PS3 underperforms long term as a result of decisions that have nothing to do with the PS3's performance in the games space?
 
No, they hit ~6.5m and only like 8.5m by end of Dec.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6162726.html?sid=6162726




Now you are worried about how many PS3 are manufactured a month? Do we even know those numbers? You need more things to worry about, have a child or two and you will gain an new perspective on life :LOL:


Peter Moore, VP of Worldwide Marketing and Publishing for the Xbox, announced at a conference in London that Microsoft expects to sell 10 million Xbox 360 consoles within 12 to 16 months of its launch.
That's June fyi ... of 2005;)
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/06/21/microsoft-wants-to-sell-10-million-xbox-360-consoles-in-first/

January 5th 2007:
Microsoft is expected to announce Sunday night that it has sold 10.4 million Xbox 360 units
http://www.joystiq.com/2007/01/05/xbox-360-hits-10-4-million-announces-iptv/
 
I don't view PS3 as a failure if it fails to keep #1 - my views on its ultimate success will be formed from a composite of its achievements and shortcomings several years from now. What else can I say? These Jan sales fell short of their estimates, but I consider them good myself; paradox? It's simply that I view things through a prism defined by my own views rather than a prism defined for me by the analysts, media hacks, and corporate talking heads. :cool:

I totally agree with your outlook actually, it's been shaping up for a while now, and whether or not Sony becomes market leader, it will be a close race, a few percentages here or there, but fairly evenly split when all is said and done. That much has been obvious since Sony announced it's $500 pricetag imo.

And, of course PS3 is still succesful even if it doesn't capture a huge market domination, I would never argue otherwise. It's just the people who cling to this idea that PS3 will repeat PS2's success that bother me. Despite mounting evidence to the contrary.

To me, this gen is working out perfectly, 360 has ensured itself a long and great lineup of games for years to come, and has performed well enough that I can rest assured 95% of third party titles will make it to the system. So, my purchase of $500(cad) has paid off, and I have no worries about being stuck with a small library of games.

On the flip side, Sony is now in the position where they're going to have to really focus it's efforts on it's 1st party lineup, this is great news to me, as Sony shows great vision when choosing it's franchises, and the more money/time they spend on producing them, the more great games we'll get. When I eventually do purchase one, not only will it be an affordable BR player, but it will have a great selection of high quality 1st party titles.

If Sony had dominated this genration like last, they could've scaled back their 1st party efforts considerably, which would not benefit the consumer. Instead, we have a situation where all 1st parties have to spend ALOT of money on their franchises simply to differentiate themselves, and to me this is the ideal situation for the console market.
 
As a dig to xbd, in one of my rants in PM, the "just wait" theme for me and Sony with both BDR and PS3 is wearing very thin, having said that, I think I am picking up a 20GB in a couple of weeks (right after GDC), so, xbd, I will send you my PSN ID, you should be happy with that :p

I am happy with that! :p

I concur with shocking, disturbing, and interesting, but I respectfully disagree with surprising.

Well, understandable. But then again I was already expecting a figure in that area, so no surprise here I guess. The only thing that surprised me honestly was the strength of 360's performance - and it was indeed strong.
 
I totally agree with your outlook actually, it's been shaping up for a while now, and whether or not Sony becomes market leader, it will be a close race, a few percentages here or there, but fairly evenly split when all is said and done. That much has been obvious since Sony announced it's $500 pricetag imo.

And, of course PS3 is still succesful even if it doesn't capture a huge market domination, I would never argue otherwise. It's just the people who cling to this idea that PS3 will repeat PS2's success that bother me. Despite mounting evidence to the contrary.

To me, this gen is working out perfectly, 360 has ensured itself a long and great lineup of games for years to come, and has performed well enough that I can rest assured 95% of third party titles will make it to the system. So, my purchase of $500(cad) has paid off, and I have no worries about being stuck with a small library of games.

On the flip side, Sony is now in the position where they're going to have to really focus it's efforts on it's 1st party lineup, this is great news to me, as Sony shows great vision when choosing it's franchises, and the more money/time they spend on producing them, the more great games we'll get. When I eventually do purchase one, not only will it be an affordable BR player, but it will have a great selection of high quality 1st party titles.

If Sony had dominated this genration like last, they could've scaled back their 1st party efforts considerably, which would not benefit the consumer. Instead, we have a situation where all 1st parties have to spend ALOT of money on their franchises simply to differentiate themselves, and to me this is the ideal situation for the console market.

Agreed 100%

Although I must admit, it is a guilty pleasure of mine presenting oven fresh - crow. Serving one's guests fresh crow need not be presented at their place setting, I prefer a buffet style presentation as it allows my guests to chose the crow which they find most appetizing.
 
Well for me, the main reason why I want a PS3 is for BR movies not for the games. Most of the games will come out for the 360 as well (and maybe better on the 360) which I already have. I am sure others are in the same position as me. I think Sony has a very tough battle ahead. For people like me, they will have to market that their machine has great games in the works. For people not like me, they have to market the machine as great games machine AND a BR player together for a low price of 500-600 (compared to stand alone players). Then there are the masses which just cannot afford to even think about anything over 299.

I wish them luck, I still believe Sony can pull through in late 08 or early 09.


I understand there are some people that want a BR player or an HD DVD player right away, but it's a niche market. The price of buying a movie on either format is MUCH higher than the average person is willing to spend, and there aren't mass quantities available for rental, at least not that I've seen. Most people didn't pick up DVD players until they could buy no-name brands for rock bottom prices. I believe the same will be true for the new formats, and the people that buy the new consoles will be buying them primarily for playing games. The people who buy the PS3 for BR will not make or break the BR format, as they are a small part of the total picture.
 


LOS ANGELES — May 9, 2006 —Microsoft Corp. Chairman and Chief Software Architect Bill Gates today staked the claim that the Xbox 360™ system will have a 10 million-unit head start by the time the competition enters the market and more than 160 games by the end of the year.

http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/2006/may06/05-09E32006BriefingPR.mspx

So can we stop the back and forth, both companies do the same stuff. Take MS off the pedestal.
 
TheChefO said:
Indeed, the results so far are falling significantly short of their target of 6 million in 6 months or 1 million/mo though... and apparantly supply isn't the problem.

Those are shipped targets. Be wary of what numbers you're using.

No worry from me. I'm glad you're having fun and I'm sure there are many thousands more that are too. This question/answer is probably differerent for you, me and Sony but; What would you consider to be a successful ps3 userbase by next-nextgen?

I don't know. It depends on Sony's marketing objectives... whether it's profitability or market share. It's their business.

Why are they missing their sales targets?

See above. What sales target ? If they miss it consistently, they will adjust their moves. If you have been in any sales team, missing sales target in 1 early week is not alarming.

Indeed those are good things for Sony. Bluray Royalties are good for Sony along with HDTV sales and establishing Cell. How is it good for me - Joe gamer? Did it make ps3 cheaper? Cheaper Games? Better Games?

How about free online games ? Resistance, as a launch game, is showing lot's of promise (Check out the levels after Nathien Hale goes into the Chimera Tunnels -- Buttery smooth framerate throughout the entire game, smart enemies that gang up, and eye candies). How about better build quality and reliability ? The Blu-ray player is a steal too (Who says a gamer can't enjoy HD movies ?). If you feel that the overall package is not for you, stay away.

Agreed it is a marathon. We can only discuss the periodic barometers letting us know how the runners in the marathon are doing. As in anything else you have favorites to win and favorites to lose, and the people that will tell you why they believe the favorite to win or lose will win or lose.

Then what you see now may have little bearing on the later rounds.
 
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I know these threads by their very nature tend to be more explosive than most, but can we try to avoid getting personal? No single person is at fault, as posts just sort of build momentum upon the last, but wherever we began, I'm sure we all agree that where we are now has gone too far.
 
Hypothetical:If Sony not being market leader is the cost for Sony to achieve their goals it may well be worth it for them. But the question then becomes what about their partners in the game industry? Their goal is to sell games. Would it not sour their relationships with publishers if the PS3 underperforms long term as a result of decisions that have nothing to do with the PS3's performance in the games space?

Sorry I missed this post as my attention was *ahem* diverted.

I'm curious about this as well. I would like to know if we have not already seen some results of shaky relationships as a result of questionable decisions with PS3. We've all discussed the benefits of BR royalties and how this decision may be affecting Playstation longterm, but I'd like to know exactly how much money are we talking about with BR royalties?

Does anyone have a specific $/disc figure they can link?
 
Glad you can join us again, your friends are on me like a cheap suit. :D

I think you missed my point. I was not attacking MS, I was pointing out that both campanies make bad predictions, yet ChefO only sees bad in Sony and good in MS. Do you care to comment on that discussion or are you just supporting a friend?

Somehow Sony's manufactuering targets are fair game and MS's system sales are not?

As I stated previously in this thread and previously on this forum (search), I thought MS sales last Summer were weak and questioned their sales target as well.

They met their goal, give or take 30 days

Now disregard the fact that MS's goal was lofty and Sony's was considered supply limited, MS still achieved their goal within 30 days and Sony ... well it's a bit too early as the still have 2 months to hit their goal but it isn't looking likely and they're currently missing their monthly sales* target.

The 1 million/month figure of Sony was to manufacture ps3's but as has been said there is a difference between manufactured and shipped and sold. I do not think Sony was planning to manufacture them just to stack them in a warehouse though.;)
 
I think you missed my point. I was not attacking MS, I was pointing out that both campanies make bad predictions, yet ChefO only sees bad in Sony and good in MS. Do you care to comment on that discussion or are you just supporting a friend?

Somehow Sony's manufactuering targets are fair game and MS's system sales are not?

There are some significant differences between those targets, the margins they've been missed or will be missed by, and what failure to meet them actually means.

MS wanted to establish a significant lead over the PS3 so that their 3rd party support would improve compared to the Xbox. They've also hoped to weaken Sony's 3rd party support.

We could get into a debate over dates and sales, but what matters is the current situation. The Xbox360 has managed to gain that significant lead, 1 million more or less does not really matter. At this time, the number of exclusives on the two platforms is about even, and many important game franchises have gone multiplatform or aren't timed exclusives any longer. MS also has unquestionably strong support from Capcom, and depending on the success of Sakaguchi's games, other Japanese devs may join in the future.


Sony expected - and has been expected - to present the strongest nextgen launch in every way: build heaps of PS3s and sell them all, overshadowing everything that MS could do in it's extra year. Noone has ever doubted that they'll quickly catch up to the Xbox, the question was that will it take more than a single year to do so.

Again, we could count the beans and argue about shipped vs. sold, but the point is that Nintendo made the strongest launch with the Wii, and PS3 will have to struggle just to catch up to the X360. And let me remind you once again that at this time MS is actually increasing its lead over Sony, and will probably continue to do so until the European launch - which may very easily turn out to be controversial again.


So how much does it actually matter if it took MS one or two more months to reach 10 million, if their underlying goal has been reached? What relevance does it have to the topic of Sony's failure to reach their underlying goal?

I hope that now you see what I mean, and I also hope we don't have to get into pointless arguments about dates, sales and such. Those are only indicators of market and industry trends, especially as there isn't any way to get the real numbers.
 
The 1 million/month figure of Sony was to manufacture ps3's but as has been said there is a difference between manufactured and shipped and sold. I do not think Sony was planning to manufacture them just to stack them in a warehouse though.;)

Again, without context and maybe a link it meaningless to even bring it up. Maybe it was 1 million a month until the Euro launch or 1 million peak.
 
You're arguing with things considered to be common knowledge here, most members have been following press releases and keep these things in mind. Challenging them means that you haven't paid that much attention (not neccessarily a bad thing, mind you) and it also derails the discussion again and again.
 
I hope that now you see what I mean, and I also hope we don't have to get into pointless arguments about dates, sales and such. Those are only indicators of market and industry trends, especially as there isn't any way to get the real numbers.

Thank you for your detailed respnse. My "bashing" by bringing in missed MS goals was in response to:

Sony target = 1m/mo
reality = .5m/mo (est)

Expectation vs Reality.

Sony is still tracking at about half their original sales target.

You don't consider this shocking/disturbing/surprising/interesting?



Again, beside him mixing sales gaols with manufacturing gaols, my point was that MS has also missed goals (the number was not important), so harping on Sony while giving MS a pass is just bias.

I fail how using MS's targets in response to Sony's is MS bashing. You called the PS3 the Titanic, are we to accuse you of Sony bashing? I personally own both a 360 and PS3 and wish to see both do well, but apparently insisting on holding both to the same standards and not just kicking Sony (which is very popular ATM) is MS bashing :???:
 
Again, without context and maybe a link it meaningless to even bring it up. Maybe it was 1 million a month until the Euro launch or 1 million peak.

Kutaragi: We are planning a monthly production rate of 1 million units. We have secured the parts required to reach this mark. This has been verified, so we should be set to go, barring any major oversights.
http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20060608/117992/?P=2

Prior to the launch of the PS3 in November, Sony said it would ship 2 million consoles this year in Japan and the U.S. and 6 million by the end of its financial year in March 2007. Those targets remain achievable and won't be changed, said Ryoji Chubachi, Sony president and chief executive officer of the electronics business, in a briefing with reporters at its Tokyo headquarters.

http://www.arnnet.com.au/index.php/id;147093421;fp;8;fpid;0

2million 2006
4 million January - March
6 Million by March - total
 
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