Extended Too Human Trailer + Interview
- Thread starter scooby_dooby
- Start date
I'm not sure I understand what gameplay will be like *at all* from the trailer, but it's looking pretty good graphically. Honestly, the story is what appeals to me most right now, as well as the fact that it's clearly going to be a trilogy. Love those 'epic' storylines! But the fighting itself looks kind of like... "what?"
@Laa-Yosh: I know what you're saying with UE3.
@Laa-Yosh: I know what you're saying with UE3.
Confidence-Man
Newcomer
Powderkeg said:
You're misinterpreting what he's saying. The camera is "dynamic and intelligent" adjusting contextually to what the player does on it's own. You have no control over it.
Elsewhere he's discussed cameras in general and his dissatisfaction with user-controlled cameras. Here, for example:
http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20050726/kohler_01.shtml
Denis Dyack said:
mckmas8808
Legend
Laa-Yosh said:
I ditto this comment.
Mefisutoferesu
Regular
The problem with the fighting, solely in terms of the trailer folks, is that it's unnatural. THe movements don't correspond to proper human movement. A good example is that laser sword against that first bot. Baldur cocks his elbow out right, folds his fist underhand to his stomach then stabs left. The human elbow simply does not move that way... yeah yeah "Too Human", I know, but humans grow naturally accustomed to the limitations of the body and when we see things that don't follow it we start getting weirded out. Often why we say animations look stiff or unnatural. Intentional or not, it doesn't look good to the human brain.
I think games looked too similar this gen even when they were using different engines. Most people just aren't going to create unique art styles. That hasn been true before and I don't know why it wouldn't be so now. I don't think UE3.0 is the source of the problem.Laa-Yosh said:
scooby_dooby
Legend
Powderkeg said:
I thought it was pretty obvious from the interview in whole that the camera moved independantly, he says it is very cinimatic, and becomes part of the fighting without impeding it.
Completely interactive just means the camera moves during the fight based on what you are doing, at least that's how I took it.
Confidence-Man
Newcomer
Powderkeg said:
Who said it was predetermined and unchangable? The camera is dynamic, it adjusts depending on the situation the player is in. It's "interactive" in the sense that, unlike in movies, it can change depending on what the player is doing.
Dyack said:
Why would he call it "intelligent" if the player controlled it?
Why would it be called intelligent if the player controlled it? Even in games with fully interactive cameras, you do not control all aspects of the image, like zoom (for the most part), object opacity (when camera gets obstructed by solid objects), depth of field, focus, etc. From the tone of the interview it definetely sounds like the player will get to manipulate the camera, that it will be a "free" camera vs "fixed". I am guessing that it will be somewhat like Zelda: WW, where the camera was adjustable and had different reactions depending on the type of action. For instance L trigger activated a close 3rd person camera, while hitting up on control stick gave a free look. Regular camera was free look also, but did not control aim, etc.
scooby_dooby
Legend
NO.
It's CINEMATIC camera angles. You can't have cinematic camera angles if it's a player controller free roam camera. In addition, it would be nothing new, and certainly wouldn't warrant the amount of praise he's heaped upon their camera system.
Think about what you're arguing, you're saying they use both thumstocks to control the camera and the player, leaving only 2 triggers for combat? 2 triggers? Does that make sense to you? Since none of the face buttons are used (X, A etc) obviously one of the thumbstick has to be used for combat, meaning the other must control player movement.
Seems much more reasonable that the camera is NOT controlled, it's a cinematic camera that it "intelligent", leaving you the right thumbstick + 2 trigger for combat, and the left thumbstick for movement.
Basically you're getting hung up on the word 'interactive' which can mean anything, and doesn't necessarily mean you directly control the camera, it can easily mean the camera simply responss to your actions.
It's CINEMATIC camera angles. You can't have cinematic camera angles if it's a player controller free roam camera. In addition, it would be nothing new, and certainly wouldn't warrant the amount of praise he's heaped upon their camera system.
Think about what you're arguing, you're saying they use both thumstocks to control the camera and the player, leaving only 2 triggers for combat? 2 triggers? Does that make sense to you? Since none of the face buttons are used (X, A etc) obviously one of the thumbstick has to be used for combat, meaning the other must control player movement.
Seems much more reasonable that the camera is NOT controlled, it's a cinematic camera that it "intelligent", leaving you the right thumbstick + 2 trigger for combat, and the left thumbstick for movement.
Basically you're getting hung up on the word 'interactive' which can mean anything, and doesn't necessarily mean you directly control the camera, it can easily mean the camera simply responss to your actions.
Not to argue about this game in particular, but *in general* a game can have cinematic camera angles AND also have interactive cameras.
Silent Hill games did this to a certain extent. Some areas had a fixed camera, which the player could still move as if they were on a pivot (just change the angles, though the camera stays in the same point). And also areas where the camera was moving with the player, and those were even more interactive.
It really depends on the implementation the Developer decides, but a "cinematic camera" can also be interactive. The 2 don't necessarily have to be seen as two sides of one coin.
Silent Hill games did this to a certain extent. Some areas had a fixed camera, which the player could still move as if they were on a pivot (just change the angles, though the camera stays in the same point). And also areas where the camera was moving with the player, and those were even more interactive.
It really depends on the implementation the Developer decides, but a "cinematic camera" can also be interactive. The 2 don't necessarily have to be seen as two sides of one coin.
scooby_dooby
Legend
I agree, Fahreinheit (Indigo Prohpecy) did teh same thing.
However, I don't see how that would work in the middle of fast paced combat with out seriously impeding your fighting, and it means you would have only 2 triggers for actual fighting and that makes NO sense. The right thumbstick must be used for throwing moves in combination with the triggers.
So I'm gonna have to guess the camera is not controlled, it controls itself and becomes part of the fighting, I'm inviwsioning a very fast hack and slash like the trailer, where the camera moves around you as you kick serious ass...
p.s. It's possible the triggers control the camera, switching betwwin cinematic views, and the right thumbstick controls combat, i could buy that! I still think it would impede your fighting though, forcing you to 'manage' the camera, which doesn't sound like the system he's describing.
However, I don't see how that would work in the middle of fast paced combat with out seriously impeding your fighting, and it means you would have only 2 triggers for actual fighting and that makes NO sense. The right thumbstick must be used for throwing moves in combination with the triggers.
So I'm gonna have to guess the camera is not controlled, it controls itself and becomes part of the fighting, I'm inviwsioning a very fast hack and slash like the trailer, where the camera moves around you as you kick serious ass...
p.s. It's possible the triggers control the camera, switching betwwin cinematic views, and the right thumbstick controls combat, i could buy that! I still think it would impede your fighting though, forcing you to 'manage' the camera, which doesn't sound like the system he's describing.
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scooby_dooby said:I agree, Fahreinheit (Indigo Prohpecy) did teh same thing.
However, I don't see how that would work in the middle of fast paced combat with out seriously impeding your fighting, and it means you would have only 2 triggers for actual fighting and that makes NO sense. The right thumbstick must be used for throwing moves in combination with the triggers.
So I'm gonna have to guess the camera is not controlled, it controls itself and becomes part of the fighting, I'm inviwsioning a very fast hack and slash like the trailer, where the camera moves around you as you kick serious ass...
p.s. It's possible the triggers control the camera, switching betwwin cinematic views, and the right thumbstick controls combat, i could buy that! I still think it would impede your fighting though, forcing you to 'manage' the camera, which doesn't sound like the system he's describing.
Well Devil May Cry worked well enough with it's fixed cameras (which i think you could move to a certain extent though i could be wrong, it's been a long time), and the action was very quick. Obviously it resulted in some frustrating occasions where you would have no idea where the hell you're going but hey, it's been done!
And i think DMC also didn't use many buttons for fighting. Certainly not more than 3 or 4...? Ok it really has been a long time...
Confidence-Man
Newcomer
Dyack has said he doesn't believe players should have control over cameras.
He's said the camera system in TH will build upon the autonomous camera system they used in Eternal Darkness.
The combat system will involve the two analog sticks and triggers. This would mean that one stick isn't taken up with camera control.
Really this seems pretty clear and I don't know why some insist on arguing the point. We'll see in time I guess.
He's said the camera system in TH will build upon the autonomous camera system they used in Eternal Darkness.
The combat system will involve the two analog sticks and triggers. This would mean that one stick isn't taken up with camera control.
Really this seems pretty clear and I don't know why some insist on arguing the point. We'll see in time I guess.
