Epic Says This Is What Next-Gen Should Look Like

[BoardBonobo]

Fast optical drives are loud....

I want a 3.5" 500GB - 1TB HDD in my next console. Since games will be larger you'll need the larger HDD for installs.

I want to be able to transfer my 500GB Blue Scorpion from my PS3 into my PS4 and have all the game saves and everything instantly accessible.

 

[pjbliverpool]

Well... I would remove the "corridor-ism". From a gameplay perspective (not looking at the surrounding stuff like RPG elements etc.), there's been basically no changes since Doom/Wolfenstein. All games rely on "go from a to b and shoot everything that tries to stop you".

If you're talking about first and third person shooters then for the most part I'd say that's for gameplay reasons. A strong story and regular change of setting are what keep a game interesting and so that often requires a corridor like approach. Even games like Crysis are corridor shooters, just with very wide corridors.

But then look at Farcry 2 which took a completely open approach. And the gameplay suffered because of it.

There are plenty of great sandbox games out there so it's clearly not a technical limitation but great sandbox shooters are rare for the reasons I mentioned above.

 

[hoho]

or you could do it similarly to GTA/Prototype/Stalker where the world is big but missions take you pretty much everywhere. Kind of like a maze instead of one straight corridor

 

[Laa-Yosh]

That kind of open world is very different and far less detailed than your average FPS/TPS. think Uncharted, COD and such.

 

[homerdog]

Regarding AI, I don't think we even have the proper theories in place to make huge strides even if the next gen is 100x more powerful than we expect it to be. Same goes for animation unfortunately (you can't motion capture everything.)

 

[hoho]

That kind of open world is very different and far less detailed than your average FPS/TPS. think Uncharted, COD and such.

Yes, generally they are but they don't have to be when designed right. GTA and Prototype are pretty much just a bunch of block-buildings with some cars and trees. Stalker is somewhat more detailed. Original Far Cry was pretty good. Not quite 100% free-roam but I'd say they got the openness and detail levels down pretty well for the performance levels they had availiable.

Regarding AI, I don't think we even have the proper theories in place to make huge strides even if the next gen is 100x more powerful than we expect it to be.

In addition to that you often don't really want realistic and/or challenging AI. AI is usually there just to entertain you before dying and as bad as it sounds scripting is generalyl way better than half-assed attempt at intelligence

 

[hoho]

Would you want COD's gameplay to take place in GTA4's cities?

Obviously drop-in replacement world without changing the main story/gameplay mechanics wouldn't work but adding neccessary details and reworking the story would be possible. Current CoD is limited to relatively small areas. If they'd do some kind of "capture the city from boogiemen" type of game where you'd have different objectives to take over I could definitely see it working great. Similarly they could have halflife-type games in open citys as well, just place the objectives near the important stuff and thus force them to though the same hoops they do in the linear settings. Just instead of having tu crawl around ventilation shafts or ride elevators to next loading point allow them to jog around the city killing random aliens.

Also, people apparently like these corridor games...

One reason why they like them I already pointed out (they want interactive movies instead of any kind of decent challenge). Another reason is there simply isn't anything better out there. Sure, there are some great older games but people care too much about graphics to go back to them.

 

[homerdog]

Lol most people I've watched play a CoD campaign didn't look like they were having too much fun. I mostly see shouts of frustration and profanity.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Current CoD is limited to relatively small areas. If they'd do some kind of "capture the city from boogiemen" type of game where you'd have different objectives to take over I could definitely see it working great. Similarly they could have halflife-type games in open citys as well, just place the objectives near the important stuff and thus force them to though the same hoops they do in the linear settings.

The dilemma here is that they have a limited budget and having to build 10 times the content means 1/10th of the effort and detail, so a much uglier game.
I don't understand why I have to stress this so many times.

Another reason is there simply isn't anything better out there. Sure, there are some great older games but people care too much about graphics to go back to them.

Again, doesn't make business sense if they can sell as many as they do already.

 

[TheWretched]

Surely... if they spend less time on one area it will look worse. But shouldn't it be a trade off, too? I mean, better gameplay should result in better sales, although one can't argue that COD sales need improvement. Though, going forward, I think this is a way these games need to go. Not COD:GTA, but at least a bit more than the "schlauchlevels" ("hose" levels) they have today.

 

[Laa-Yosh]

I'm not saying they're right or wrong, I only try to explain the art related side of this and nothing else.

Of course I'd like more complex spaces too, but that is for a smaller segment of the market. For example Deus Ex HR might be one game that has more open environments - but you can already see the price they pay for that in general level of detail.

 

[kagemaru]

Surely... if they spend less time on one area it will look worse. But shouldn't it be a trade off, too? I mean, better gameplay should result in better sales, although one can't argue that COD sales need improvement. Though, going forward, I think this is a way these games need to go. Not COD:GTA, but at least a bit more than the "schlauchlevels" ("hose" levels) they have today.

What Laa-Yosh is trying to explain is why bother investing in better gameplay or bigger/wider environments when the current CoD model is selling as good as it is?

The people asking for sandbox environments in their shooters are the minority compared to the millions of people who buy CoD every year.

 

[TheWretched]

I understand what he is saying. My point simply was that, in my opinion, shooters REALLY need to evolve. But sales numbers disagree with me. Still... not a lot of developers even TRIED to go beyond the standard. Deus Ex for example tried to do it. Yet sequel was pretty bad though.

It's just... I know graphics "matter". But do they matter SO MUCH that gameplay suffers from it? And by that I mean, the "point a to b" setup of most shooters. I am not even sure if it would make a real difference, if that was changed... though I am by no means a gameplay designer.

 

[dragonelite]

I understand what he is saying. My point simply was that, in my opinion, shooters REALLY need to evolve. But sales numbers disagree with me. Still... not a lot of developers even TRIED to go beyond the standard. Deus Ex for example tried to do it. Yet sequel was pretty bad though.

It's just... I know graphics "matter". But do they matter SO MUCH that gameplay suffers from it? And by that I mean, the "point a to b" setup of most shooters. I am not even sure if it would make a real difference, if that was changed... though I am by no means a gameplay designer.

Every shooter hell every game should have a theater mode like halo had from halo 3 and reach. Especially Battlefield games so many times online i thought ooh shit i wish i could see that again. Would be cool to get lets say the replay file and you can then make a avi or whatever videofile on your pc with it with a tool the dev releases so you can do some video editing. Instead getting bungie cash to pay them for rendering and uploading a movie.

 

[hoho]

Would be cool to get lets say the replay file and you can then make a avi or whatever videofile on your pc with it with a tool the dev releases so you can do some video editing.

That was pretty much a standard feature during the quake 1/2/3/hl1 engine-times. Kind of sad it's not any more.

 

[function]

I thought all blu-ray drives are CLV by design, no?

Also, can you post a link stating that ps3's is 2.4? Everything I've read, which has been years ago by now, specifically stated 2x.

I'm actually hoping for 12x blu-ray drives next gen with noise dampening. I know the 360 slim is certainly quieter than my Xenon or Jasper models.

Edit: Though this discussion should probably be moved to the optical disc thread in the main gaming section. >_>

Yeah, I've responded in the relevant thread!

http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1567815#post1567815

 

[Laa-Yosh]

Games need 1000x faster hardware, VR goggles and other stuff too - but just because we want them is not enough to turn them into reality.

 

[patsu]

May be, may be not. Perhaps in a different form:
http://www.joystiq.com/2011/07/18/sony-experimenting-with-virtual-reality-games/

In an interview with Develop, Hocking brought up the head-mounted 3D display (seen above) his company showed off at CES, saying, "We're working with a couple of games at Sony that are experimenting with virtual reality-type experiences."

OnLive type service is independent of client machine power.

 

[Simon F]

The procedural VS artist debate has now been moved to: http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=60476

 

[patsu]

That was pretty much a standard feature during the quake 1/2/3/hl1 engine-times. Kind of sad it's not any more.

Besides replay and touchup (like U2 and GT5), I also want spectating. ^_^
I used to spectate in RFOM and one of the Socom games.