EMU

[Humus]

That's seriously exaggerating.

You have to be able to read between the lines my dear Humus. You need to look at

- Who said it?
- When did they say it?
- Why did they say it?

Oh it was a threat alright. Stick and carrot, stick and carrot.

Oh, here's a link to the article in question: "Rational to leave Sweden". For most people it doesn't get any clearer than that...
http://www.dn.se/DNet/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=572&a=174609&previousRenderType=2

Personally I prefer to just read what they actually said instead of extracting information that's just not there. Their article was very balanced and contained no threat whatsoever about Ericsson leaving Sweden if the Euro is not introduced. That's something others have extracted out of thin air. They stated the truth, that if Sweden keep their own weak and unstable currency, then businesses (including Ericsson) have to deal with that factor, which makes Sweden a less attractive place to make investments. They did not say the Ericsson would just leave, though if the business climate in Sweden is worsened it may actually mean that Ericsson will be more likely to keep their foreign offices in bad financial times than the Swedish and less likely to place new offices in Sweden in the good times.

 

[Humus]

The EU will probably just become more like how the US is today.

I can't see this happening myself. The difference with the borders in Europe as compared to the US is that almost every country has a different language. It's very hard to become like your neighbours when you don't even speak the same lingo!

I know that English has become the 'lingua franca' of the world but there is no way I can see Europe becoming fully united due to the cultural and linguistic differences. Hey - perhaps Esperanto wasn't such a bad idea after all?

Well, it will definitely take time, but I'm sure it will happend. Culturally we'll grow together fairly quickly I'm sure, I'll give a generation or two. I'm personally amazed how much closer the european countries have come to each other just the latest few years. The language problem will remain for a longer time though, but as the importance of the english language grows with each day I think more or less all language will being to merge. I'll give it 200 years before we're really close though. Even as it is today though, the linguistic problem can be overcome. Most people learn not only english in school, but also either german, french or spanish. Personally I learned german in school for a year. I've forgot most of it, but I think I could get it up and working to speakable condition if I actually tried to use it, like if I would move to germany. Also, don't forget that some countries have more than one official language and seems to be going just fine anyway. And some countries speak very similar languages, like swedes, norwegians and danes, and then finnish people also tend to know swedish from school.

 

[horvendile]

I have no doubt that isolationism is not a good way to build a future. I also think that looking at the question in a pure "Me! Me! Me!"-perspective (as I think most of the No-side is doing) is highly objectionable. And finally, the EU and EMU are not perfect, but it's not like the Perfect union will show up on our collective doorstep if we just wait long enough.

(There I go and post here again even though I'd promised myself to stop that... well, at least I'm cutting down on it! )

 

[Simon F]

The EU will probably just become more like how the US is today.

I can't see this happening myself. The difference with the borders in Europe as compared to the US is that almost every country has a different language.

Been to Califonia recently? ... and I'm not sure I'd understand the English spoken in some parts of NY

 

[Fred]

People are missing the point I think.

It isn't so much about 'blending in' with the rest of the EU, and social differences. Currency is purely a matter of economics, and changing has consequences (both good and bad). This is one of those situations where IMO it shouldn't be up to the populace, but rather leaders who have presumably a better grasp of the realities of the situation (and a better education to boot).

A world currency would be bad in many ways for instance, as it could be very sensitive to hyper inflation and quirks in various unstable countries.

Its been argued that the amount of US dollars that exist out there, is already too extensive.

 

[Heathen]

Is there an option for 'Don't care'?

 

[Gerry]

Currency is purely a matter of economics, and changing has consequences (both good and bad). This is one of those situations where IMO it shouldn't be up to the populace, but rather leaders who have presumably a better grasp of the realities of the situation (and a better education to boot).

This is true. The trouble is that, certainly in the UK, people seem to have a romantic attachment to the pound as a currency. There certainly are pros and cons for the UK changing to the Euro but any sensible debate seems to get thrown out of the window, in favour of black-and-white ideology where one side or the other are demonised. Trouble is our tabloid media don't exactly help - seeing any situation where the pound is lost as some kind of national disaster.

I can't imagine things are much different in Sweden.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Is there an option for 'Don't care'?

Yes. Guess what it is.

 

[stefandxm]

I'd vote no , since i really want the cooperation between sweden and the rest of europe to shrink, not to expand.. I voted no to join EU and i will vote no to join EMU, reason is quite simple..

i dont see the democratic similarities between us and esp:
* Great britain
* Germany
* Italy
* Spain
* Portugal
* Finland (i have to say this, even tho we are neighbours).

I however see big differences, and i dont think that removing the differences can benefit everyone, just the big countries... Or well, not sure that even them will benefit

Just look how the goverment is messing up the football in italy! what if that happens to sweden? and i also think an european footballleague would completly fuck up!

FOR THE FOOTBALL: Vote no!!

ps. euros looks like toymoney ds.

 

[Xmas]

I voted yes. Why have different things for the same purpose?

stefandmx,
Champions League and UEFA Cup are basically european football leagues. Just compare them to the big north american sports leagues, they also consist of regional divisions and a combining playoff part.

 

[Humus]

This is true. The trouble is that, certainly in the UK, people seem to have a romantic attachment to the pound as a currency. There certainly are pros and cons for the UK changing to the Euro but any sensible debate seems to get thrown out of the window, in favour of black-and-white ideology where one side or the other are demonised. Trouble is our tabloid media don't exactly help - seeing any situation where the pound is lost as some kind of national disaster.

I can't imagine things are much different in Sweden.

Well, I don't think swedes are as attached to their currency as the brits, we don't have any real reason to. The pound has been stable and strong for a long while, something that can't be said about the swedish krona.

 

[Humus]

Is there an option for 'Don't care'?

Yes. Guess what it is.

For some reason the No side have got the people to believe that if you don't care or don't have an opinion, then you're safe on the No side. Out of those who vote yes a strong majority (82% I think it was) value the EMU issue as very important, while on the No side most people think that the EMU issue is not that important or has no significance at all. I don't see why "don't care/no opinion" should mean a no though.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Is there an option for 'Don't care'?

Yes. Guess what it is.

For some reason the No side have got the people to believe that if you don't care or don't have an opinion, then you're safe on the No side. Out of those who vote yes a strong majority (82% I think it was) value the EMU issue as very important, while on the No side most people think that the EMU issue is not that important or has no significance at all. I don't see why "don't care/no opinion" should mean a no though.

Your reply has nothing to do with my post.

 

[Humus]

Then what was the point of your post and what exactly are you trying to imply?

 

[Xmas]

Don't care -> don't vote, I guess.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Don't care -> don't vote, I guess.

Yep.

 

[Gubbi]

*NEWSFLASH* THIS JUST IN.

The 4% french budget deficit and german budget deficit in similar territory sends the Euro into tatters.

Euro still gains on the dollar though, because no matter how big a deficit Eurozone has, the US. deficit will be bigger.

Humus, Cosmo, .. other swedes: Aren't the Krona already locked to the Euro. The danish Krone is (can deviate a maximum of 2%). If that's the case then the Euro will just be a cosmetic change (well, it _will_ be a practical change for swedish tourists).

Cheers
Gubbi

 

[Nappe1]

If norway would join EMU some day, it would mean a big difference for norwegians living on northern frontier of finland. Why?? well, everything there costs 2 times more than in finland, so there's quite lot norwegians visiting finland just do the shopping. Same currency would definately make a difference there.

and what comes to sweden, I can't say much, because I really don't know exact price situation there, but at least here in finland expensive "high tech toys" are mostly now bought from Germany, just because price difference is huge. (for example Panasonic AE300 projector costs here about 2400-3000 Euros. From Germany, you can get a one with 1600-1700 Euros even with COD.)

so, it has make comparing prices much more easier, and also helped net shopping become very good choice.

 

[CosmoKramer]

Humus, Cosmo, .. other swedes: Aren't the Krona already locked to the Euro.

No. The Swedish Crown is not locked to the Euro like the Danish Crown. So the change would not be cosmetical.

Btw, that other thing you brought up is important. While I'm overall positive to the idea of a common currency I'm going to vote no since the major euro-zone economies act too immaturely (arrogantly) at this time. I hope the german/italian/french people will manage to elect more responsible leaders in the future.

 

[Humus]

If norway would join EMU some day, it would mean a big difference for norwegians living on northern frontier of finland. Why?? well, everything there costs 2 times more than in finland, so there's quite lot norwegians visiting finland just do the shopping. Same currency would definately make a difference there.

and what comes to sweden, I can't say much, because I really don't know exact price situation there, but at least here in finland expensive "high tech toys" are mostly now bought from Germany, just because price difference is huge. (for example Panasonic AE300 projector costs here about 2400-3000 Euros. From Germany, you can get a one with 1600-1700 Euros even with COD.)

so, it has make comparing prices much more easier, and also helped net shopping become very good choice.

Sweden and Finland are closer to each other in terms of prices, industry etc. than we're to Norway. Norway is a very expensive country. Sweden is quite expensive, 20% above EU average, some of that due to higher taxes. Finland pretty much the same as Sweden. Norway though is probably 50% or more above the EU average. Especially on stuff like food. Loads of Norwegians close to the border buy their food in Sweden on a regular basis. Some Swedish food stores close to the border has more Norwegian customers than Swedish. And this is quite natural given that on food the average Norwegian price is typically around twice that of Swedish, sometime even more. It really pays off driving a little longer to buy your stuff. If Norway would join the EU and EMU I'd bet their prices would go down quite a lot. Things like this is the reason Norwegians are leaning more and more towards joining now.