EA talks about underpowered Revolution

[Shifty Geezer]

Surely, every single console user out there owns a HDTV

That's what I thought. I'd like to know what percentage of XB360 owners have an HDTV as perhaps EA are basing their opinion on something like 'only people with HDTVs are going to be really interested in upgrading their consoles' or something equally daft. Certainly by the time Middle Earth comes out for next-gen consoles, at least ~80% (guess) of the market for next-gen are going to be on SDTV. If your game is dependant on HDTV, you're limiting your market. I'd say leave the RTS's to PC until most gamers have HDTV, or at least all the RTS fans have HDTV!

 

[Ben-Nice]

I would be surprised if Nintendo doesn't make some type of shell for the controller so it can be used like a traditional one as well.

 

[pipo]

I would be surprised if Nintendo doesn't make some type of shell for the controller so it can be used like a traditional one as well.

That's already confirmed.

 

[Teasy]

Nice title there "superguy", your not at all a troll are you?

One of the reasons Battle for Middle Earth II works so well on the [Xbox] 360 is the controller

Not only is the 360 controller crap for RTS games but its the same kind of controller every other console has had for the last 6 years. Yet according to this guy its a reason why a RTS game works so well on the 360, am I missing something?..

 

[Johnny Awesome]

Yes.

 

[NavNucST3]

That's what I thought. I'd like to know what percentage of XB360 owners have an HDTV as perhaps EA are basing their opinion on something like 'only people with HDTVs are going to be really interested in upgrading their consoles' or something equally daft. Certainly by the time Middle Earth comes out for next-gen consoles, at least ~80% (guess) of the market for next-gen are going to be on SDTV. If your game is dependant on HDTV, you're limiting your market. I'd say leave the RTS's to PC until most gamers have HDTV, or at least all the RTS fans have HDTV!

On my friends list (16 people) which is comprised mostly of members here, I think only 2 people do not have HD (I could be off). In fact I have 3 hdtvs, do I think this is the norm, not even close, but even for those who are going to upgrade between this year and next, you would still be VERY early in the life-cycle of the upcoming consoles. But, I am one who thinks the World Cup, WILL sell hdtvs.

Its not out of the realm of possibility that even those people who do not have an HDTV ARE connecting to a VGA monitor, which increases your users with HD capabilities, by a couple orders of magnitude.

 

[Teasy]

Ok johnny, what am I missing with regards to the XBox 360 controller that makes it so great for RTS games?

 

[scooby_dooby]

Ok johnny, what am I missing with regards to the XBox 360 controller that makes it so great for RTS games?

I dunno why he references the controller, as it's actually the control scheme that is supposed to be so great according to previews I've read.

Basically everything is done using the A button, each trigger pulls up build menu's, very simple streamlined approach, it's supposed to be as good or even better than mouse/kb according to some hands-on reports.

 

[Teasy]

I dunno why he references the controller, as it's actually the control scheme that is supposed to be so great according to previews I've read.

Basically everything is done using the A button, each trigger pulls up build menu's, very simple streamlined approach, it's supposed to be as good or even better than mouse/kb according to some hands-on reports.

Yeah like you say, nothing to do with the XBox 360 controller but the games control interface.

Though I find it extremely hard to believe the controls will be as good as a keyboard and mouse (no possible way they can be better that's for sure). No matter how streamlined the design is at the end of the day they're still using analog sticks which simply lack precision for moving around the landscape and selecting/commanding characters.

 

[scooby_dooby]

Yeah like you say, nothing to do with the XBox 360 controller but the games control interface.

Though I find it extremely hard to believe the controls will be as good as a keyboard and mouse (no possible way they can be better that's for sure). No matter how streamlined the design is at the end of the day they're still using analog sticks which simply lack precision for moving around the landscape and selecting/commanding characters.

Meh, Keyboard Mouse is not perfect, moving my cursor way to the bottom of the screen to select different buildings/troops, switching groups using number-keys, and scrolling with the arrows etc, could all be done better IMO.

The big question mark is selcting troops, if they can nail that it will be great. The analogue stick give a really good level of precision, RTS don't require super high precision anyways.

 

[Almasy]

Hopefully devs can use HDTVs in some fashion to solve one nagging problem, at least for me, with RTS: I friggin HATE to scroll so much across the battlefield. The field of vision just feels too limited.

Maybe you don't even need HDTVs, but this bugs me so much each time I boot up WarCraft 3.

 

[fearsomepirate]

In my experience, people play RTS's at the most ridiculously high resolutions possible on PC monitors. How is 720p better than that? Also, my prediction is that either

a) LOTR:BFME 2 will be control hell on X360

b) It'll be consolized hell on PC and generate 10x the outcry of Oblivion.

 

[ban25]

I'd bet most people willing to rush out and buy a $400+ game console with a limited software library are the kind of enthusiasts who already have an HDTV (probably for years). I would probably reverse your figure and suggest that only 20% won't have HDTV.

That's what I thought. I'd like to know what percentage of XB360 owners have an HDTV as perhaps EA are basing their opinion on something like 'only people with HDTVs are going to be really interested in upgrading their consoles' or something equally daft. Certainly by the time Middle Earth comes out for next-gen consoles, at least ~80% (guess) of the market for next-gen are going to be on SDTV. If your game is dependant on HDTV, you're limiting your market. I'd say leave the RTS's to PC until most gamers have HDTV, or at least all the RTS fans have HDTV!

 

[Shifty Geezer]

That's what I was saying/asking about percentage of XB360. The entire next-gen market is likely to be >100 million, though of course most of those sales aren't going to come in the first year or two. Out of those 100 million, all of 80% are going to be in a position to benefit from HD. Now if most XB360 owners already have HD, which seems about right, at least in the US, then targetting RTS at HD resolutions makes sense. In 2 years' time, targetting HD will likely be alienating the majority of console owners, unless the next 30+ million console owners either already have HD or will be spending an extra grand or so on an HD set. (Though to be fair, the Samsung HD CRT looks a very nice deal and with price drops HD adoption might gain some momentum. Doubt it'll be most people in two years or anything close though.)

 

[ban25]

That's what I was saying/asking about percentage of XB360. The entire next-gen market is likely to be >100 million, though of course most of those sales aren't going to come in the first year or two. Out of those 100 million, all of 80% are going to be in a position to benefit from HD. Now if most XB360 owners already have HD, which seems about right, at least in the US, then targetting RTS at HD resolutions makes sense. In 2 years' time, targetting HD will likely be alienating the majority of console owners, unless the next 30+ million console owners either already have HD or will be spending an extra grand or so on an HD set. (Though to be fair, the Samsung HD CRT looks a very nice deal and with price drops HD adoption might gain some momentum. Doubt it'll be most people in two years or anything close though.)

Walk into a Best Buy and you'll find the SDTVs relegated to a small shelf in the corner, with HDTVs of various types (LCD, projection, plasma) taking up probably a quarter of the floor space. Low-end HDTVs (CRTs, etc.) are now selling for less than what many are speculating a PS3 to cost. I can't see too many people spending more money on their game console than their display. In two years time, the prices will drop even further.

I honestly don't think you are going to see too many people running these systems on standard definition displays in the coming years, and certainly not 80 million. The people who are truly interested in this kind of entertainment will have the equipment to match, the rest will probably just buy a PS2 (I'm assuming they don't have one already).

 

[Shifty Geezer]

In the US, yes. In Europe it's a world apart. We still don't have much reason to get HD. Affordable HDTVs might start making a difference when there's more reason to upgrade. The switch to HDTV I wouldn't expect to be any faster than the take-up of colour TV, far less even as the content isn't there to appreciate the expenditure. It'll be price dependent. Lots of people are buying new TVs that are flat panels because they look cool, but they're SD sets. HD costs upwards of a grand in almost all cases, which is a lot of money for a device that doesn't yet achieve much unless you have Sky. Plus it's all very well saying HD sets are the only one's selling, but how many are selling? Is it likely that in 2 years most of the US will have bought HD sets? Or are only 2 million a year buying new TVs? Prominence of HD sets in stores only shows a shift in demand, but doesn't indicate rate of adoption.

This report
http://66.249.93.104/search?q=cache:3iog4loAGvcJ:www.screendigest.com/reports/06highdeftv/readmore/view.html+HD+TV+growth+US&hl=en&gl=uk&ct=clnk&cd=5
says

Across the globe HD has already made its mark and in early 2006, HD broadcasts were available in 12 countries: USA, Canada, Japan, Australia, South Korea, China, Germany and Austria, and the Nordic markets (Sweden, Finland, Denmark, Norway). By the end of 2005 there were 19m households with HDTV sets in the US (17% of total TV households) with 11m of these watching HD broadcasts. At the same time 14% (6.7m) of TV households in Japan were HD ready.

On a global basis, by the end of 2010 the number of HD ready households will reach 174m or 22% of TV households. The figure will be 59% in the US, 66% in Japan and 30% in Western Europe.

In 5 years time, towards the end of this gen, HD prevalence in the markets is expected to be still around half. Now of course this is an analysts prediction and things might change, but targetting your game at HD owners is going to see, on the whole, most console owners not able to appreciate the HD, unless all the console owners are the people who are keen to switch to HD and that 174 million households includes all that 100 million console owners. I don't know how likely that is or isn't. Without any certainities though, I'd certainly say targetting a game at HD within the next two years, saying without HD you're going to have trouble playing the game, is alienating a lot of your potential customers. It's something I'd do if I were producing a next-gen console game.

 

[darkblu]

Without any certainities though, I'd certainly say targetting a game at HD within the next two years, saying without HD you're going to have trouble playing the game, is alienating a lot of your potential customers.

believe it or not, but that's what ms have been doing so far. gotta love corporations with marketting drones in head.

 

[Shifty Geezer]

believe it or not, but that's what ms have been doing so far. gotta love corporations with marketting drones in head.

XB360 games aren't dependent on HD to play properly though, are they? Whereas this EA talk seem to say without HD, their game won't be playable, or at least won't be any good. Ultimately a game may have a better experience on HD, but if it's no good on SD, you're limiting market appeal (unless the console owning RTS players wanting to play RTS on consoles are mostly among HDTV owners).

 

[darkblu]

XB360 games aren't dependent on HD to play properly though, are they?

depends what you mean by 'properly'. the unofficially-official policy passed down on devs is 'all effort at HD, don't worry about SD'.

Whereas this EA talk seem to say without HD, their game won't be playable, or at least won't be any good. Ultimately a game may have a better experience on HD, but if it's no good on SD, you're limiting market appeal

see my reply above.

 

[ban25]

Without any certainities though, I'd certainly say targetting a game at HD within the next two years, saying without HD you're going to have trouble playing the game, is alienating a lot of your potential customers. It's something I'd do if I were producing a next-gen console game.

Again, my point is that the early adopters -- i.e. the people purchasing a new console within the first two years -- will already have HDTV. They will, in effect, constitute the majority you are looking for. Based on your numbers, households with HDTV will be a majority in every major territory except Europe by 2010. In fact, there won't even be any analog TV broadcast in the US by that time.

I would also suggest that those numbers are probably conservative and I expect there to be fairly rapid uptake, even in Western Europe as more content becomes available. As for those who stick with SDTV, I really think their best option is to remain with the current generation of consoles. The PS2 is dirt-cheap and has a library of over 6000 games -- it's hard to imagine a more favorable option for the 480i crowd.