Double Layer DVD games

[London Geezer]

Hello guys,

I have a question...

Why are all games in this generation on DVD5 (single layer, single side)?

Are the games just not big enough, or are there possible risks with going double layer for games that i'm missing?

I'm asking this because Final Fantasy 12 is on a single layer DVD and that just made me wonder if there are problems, as i was expecting this game to be using a DVD9 considering all the FMV it contains...

I think i heard of one game on PS2 that used DVD9 and that was GT4... One, out of thousands of titles!

Thanks!

 

[Arwin]

There are, in fact, more of them. Champions of Norrath is one, which really fills the disc completely and utterly, and there's even a two disc one, Xenosaga I believe. Also some of the Metal Gears ...

But some earlier consoles had trouble reading dual layer, and I also read somewhere that dual layer actually slows down the reading speed - but I don't know much about that. Printing DVD9 discs will also have been more expensive, and also, in the early days there weren't so many cheap DVD9 burners, so that would have hampered production - much easier if you can just burn a new revision to disc to hand over to the playtesters. (note that the early availability of - Dual Layer even - BluRay burners for in PCs were a big help to PS3 developers, I'm sure!)

In short, if you could avoid it, it probably was worth your while most of the time. Or at least, that's the way I've understood it.

 

[Npl]

Hello guys,

I have a question...

Why are all games in this generation on DVD5 (single layer, single side)?

Are the games just not big enough, or are there possible risks with going double layer for games that i'm missing?

I'm asking this because Final Fantasy 12 is on a single layer DVD and that just made me wonder if there are problems, as i was expecting this game to be using a DVD9 considering all the FMV it contains...

I think i heard of one game on PS2 that used DVD9 and that was GT4... One, out of thousands of titles!

Thanks!

add Champions of Norrath, God of War, MGS2 - Substistence, Genji.

I think early PS2-models had weak lasers, generally PS2-drives are picky...

There sure is a good reason as Onimusha 4 came on 2 single-layer DVD`s

 

[Zaphod]

Double Layer DVDs are more error prone. Especially at the layer change. I have some (older) numbers (for pressed DVDs) somewhere, I'll see if I can find them. This isn't all to critical on a DVD-Video, as the error correction takes care of most things and even a couple of wrong bits here and there doesn't give a notable degredation of the video. For data, on the other hand, a single unrecoverable failure leads to a halted read - full stop.

I guess that could be one reason they're not used more.

 

[ban25]

Dual-Layer/Disc PS2 games that I own off the top of my head:
- Champions of Norrath
- Xenosaga
- Onimusha 4
- Grandia III
- Star Ocean III
- GT4

There are probably others.

 

[ERP]

There are, in fact, more of them. Champions of Norrath is one, which really fills the disc completely and utterly, and there's even a two disc one, Xenosaga I believe. Also some of the Metal Gears ...

But some earlier consoles had trouble reading dual layer, and I also read somewhere that dual layer actually slows down the reading speed - but I don't know much about that. Printing DVD9 discs will also have been more expensive, and also, in the early days there weren't so many cheap DVD9 burners, so that would have hampered production - much easier if you can just burn a new revision to disc to hand over to the playtesters. (note that the early availability of - Dual Layer even - BluRay burners for in PCs were a big help to PS3 developers, I'm sure!)

In short, if you could avoid it, it probably was worth your while most of the time. Or at least, that's the way I've understood it.

There is basically no cost difference between double and single layer discs, this has been largely true since about the XBox1 launch. Near the PS2 launch this was not true.
You have to deal with the layer change delay, so it's harder to optimize content reads, and IME for the most games you just pick a number and clamp the audio/video content to what's left after you've got the game on the disc.

 

[TurnDragoZeroV2G]

There is basically no cost difference between double and single layer discs, this has been largely true since about the XBox1 launch. Near the PS2 launch this was not true.
You have to deal with the layer change delay, so it's harder to optimize content reads, and IME for the most games you just pick a number and clamp the audio/video content to what's left after you've got the game on the disc.

Apologies for being dense, but is there any read speed penalty for a dual-layer disc, ignoring the greater cost of layer changes (and if so, does it only apply to the second layer or to both layers of a dual-layer disc)? Quickly looking at DVD drive info, read speed is only listed as the (presumably) max rather than separate values for single layer/dual layer or primary layer/ secondary layer, though a write speed penalty is indicated when moving between SL and DL. I can see someone becoming confused by that fact if there isn't, in actuality, a read speed penalty.

 

[ERP]

Apologies for being dense, but is there any read speed penalty for a dual-layer disc, ignoring the greater cost of layer changes (and if so, does it only apply to the second layer or to both layers of a dual-layer disc)? Quickly looking at DVD drive info, read speed is only listed as the (presumably) max rather than separate values for single layer/dual layer or primary layer/ secondary layer, though a write speed penalty is indicated when moving between SL and DL. I can see someone becoming confused by that fact if there isn't, in actuality, a read speed penalty.

It just varies acrross the surface of the disc, doesn't matter which layer it's on. Yes generally quoted numbers are peak.
However there is a large cost associated with changing layers.

 

[nintenho]

I think Advent Rising did.