DoA Volley Ball == 2003

Time to stray off topic a bit... IMO there's more than enough information to judge a game by that doesn't exactly require a review score or the cover. ;)
I'll try to explain why I agree with Peppermonkey that such a statement is a bit "sad". Similar to movies, there are things like genre, particular license (movie, comic,, book, whatever), developer, lead game designer, art content, soundtrack, theme, setting, story or a number of other factors that get you interested in a game and you don't need a review/score to learn more about those or form an opinion on a game.

Add to that that for each person something else makes a good game, to an extent that even "averaged" review scores (which at least tend to remove personal bias from individual scores a little) on their own, still don't allow you to form a real opinion of a game. I'll grant that only very few people will enjoy a game that gathers scores below 50-60%, but above that it more often than not comes down to personal taste. Nothing will ever replace first hand experience, reviews to me are just one of many filters that hopefully leave me with playworthy games.

Lets say game X gets scored ~70% (decent score IMO but some people would probably never touch such a game erven with a long pointy stick because of score alone), some reasons are: its not highly original, has a solid but simple story, only average quality cinematics, some small balancing and difficulty issues and also a few bugs/glitches. Otherwise its a good game in its genre, but reviewers can just find nothing special enough to justify a higher score. All fair and square and happens all the time, for someone who's a fan of the genre and doesn't care for anybody to reinvent his favourite type of game anyway, above score might not mean a whole lot though, he/she don't have to mind the political sides of games as much as reviewers do either! Bugs can be patched (at least on PC) or avoided (most console game bugs), story is (or should be) secondary to gameplay and who's the authority over what exactly makes a game difficult anyway? As long as the gameplay mechanics work, this could very well be like a 85-90% title to many gamers.

There's an inherent problem with reviews and scores, some things have to be taken into account by reviewers that often don't even matter to a specific gamer, one of the reasons being that most reviews are written for the "average" or "casual" gamer and also have to live up to a certain standard. Especially for more interested or "hardcore" gamers, or just gamers who tend to know a bit better what type of game they like, review scores can mean pretty much next to nothing, their definition of what makes a game good can often be quite different from the "average" gamer's...

Its not that review scores don't matter or don't help, they certainly do, but there are enough cases where I personally enjoyed a 65% rated game just as much or even more than some 90% rated game, simply because of personal taste. Taste can't be calculated or given scores, which is why I totally agree with Peppermonkey. Its odd to see people say they only play games with 9/10 scores or better, as those scores have no direct relation to individual tastes, sounds more like something an IRC bot rather than a human would say... ;)
 
I disagree. Average scores usually corelate with quality. It's that simple. I think I already stated that I disagree from time to time and go outside the bounds of my 9+ rule (BLiNX, Oddworld, Amped, for instance). Generally I don't though.

I'm curious Gollum. What newer systems do you own? What games do you have for them?
 
I'll agree with you on this - yes, average score deffinitely does corelate with quality, but quality != fun, that is where part of the disagreement comes from. Of course quality games have a higher chance of being fun than others, but it will vary from person to person. Which is why I think only few individuals will have a taste that can be really simply described by a review score. If we were to measure how much an individual can enjoy a game in the same 1-10 scale, I'd say the review score is a good base, but there's a margin of error of about +/- 2 or 3 easily, in some cases even more. Fun is too subjective to be rated on a scale, at least not accurately and if will always be different for each individual.

As for your question, my gaming platforms of choice currently are PC and Xbox, sometimes I'll play a game I'm interested in on a friend's PS2. Instead of listing my games (too many) I'll point you to a few examples. I enjoyed Vampire (avg. rating of 77%) far more than FFX (avg. rating 92%). I've enjoyed Gothic (avg. rating of 78%) far more than Baldur's Gate 2 (avg. rating of 94%). I've enjoyed Mafia more than GTA3 (too lazy to look up the scores but there's ~15% between their average scores I guess). I've actually enjoyed Gene Wars (avrg. rating like 56% or below IIRC) more than all of the latest C&C RTS installments (most hover around 85-90% I think). While not sticking to any kid of genres: I do currently enjoy Oddworld more than Mech Assault (score-wise no contest) and play Amped a lot more often than I do Splinter Cell. I would probably score MA and SC as "better quality games" in a review, but on a fun level they loose out to those supposedly inferior games IMO. This list could go on forever...

Of course there are numerous examples where the actual score is dead on and I do in fact enjoy the "higher quality" game more than the "lower quality" one. I still think saying "I only enjoy 9+ games" or "I only buy 9+ games" doesn't make sense. If I absolutely had to put it into numbers I guess I'd say like "I rarely purchase a game that isn't at least 7+ or 8+, unless I really dig it for some reason" ... well, to each his own I guess. At least we'll probably agree that it wouldn't be wise to base a purchasing decision purely on commercial success, yes? ;)

:arrow:

Back to the topic of the thread, I just read that according to retailers DOA:XBV has sold a whooping 72.000 copies on its first day in Japan, already making it the second best selling Xbox game there in total sales (DOA3 has sold ~150k, Halo ~70k and that's since march)! Ouch! :oops:
 
Those DoAX sales are pretty good, but I'll be suprised if it breaks 150k in Japan.

I'll say this about score/reviews/etc... I rarely buy anything that gets less than an 8/10. About 75% of my stuff is 9/10. The rest is that margin of error that you're talking about. Amped and Oddworld are good obvious examples. They got 80% or so, but I had fun with them AS IF they had received 9/10. Like I said I'm flexible, but when you own two platforms and have limited time you tend to stick to the highest possible quality stuff.

What I should have stated is: "I rarely pay full price for a game that is less than 9/10". Usually if a game is only an 8/10, you can get it for $30 a couple of months later. This is what I do now. Patience saves me money. :)
 
Oddworld? The Xbox one? You must be the first person I've heard of actually liking that game... ugh.
I like it. I can't even understand what is not to like about it. It's not as good as their first two games, but that doesn't make it a bad game.
 
Johnny Awesome said:
I do use my own opinion, which is to use the data available to me to make my decision, including reviews from sites/mags. What do you use to judge a game, the cover? :rolleyes:

With that being said, I rely far more on WHAT is said in reviews, rather than what score is given. Usually scores reflect what is said fairly accurately though.

I'm curious. What newer systems do you own? What are your top 5 picks for each?

Sorry for taking so long to answer...

Ok, I don't use the cover to judge the game. I usually rent the game to try it out. I do look at reviews, and take what they say and see if I care about what they are talking about. I don't limit myself to buying only games that are only 9/10 or above.

I have all the newer systems: Xbox, Gamecube, PS2, Dreamcast... if that's not all the newer systems, I can go down to SNES PSX N64...

Anyway

Xbox:

Panzer Dragoon Orta
Halo
DOA3
Mechassault
Splinter cell

PS2:
Final Fantasy X
ICO
Fatal Frame
Devil May Cry
Metal Gear Solid 2

GC:
Super Mario Sunshine
Super Smash Bros Melee
Metroid Prime
Star Fox Adventures
Rogue Leader


And just because the five listed probably have a 9.0 or higher, doesn't mean that I only buy 9.0 or higher. I have had quite a bit of fun with many games that were < 9.0
 
I think scores are necessary.

as soon as you find a mag/web sote that fits your taste and that is what it matters.

I usually wait 6 months before buying a game. I do not trust anybody on the internet so I wait for the hype to goes down. 6 months later, it is much more clearer what is good or not.

Owning 2 consoles helps, there is always a game from 6 months ago you do not have the money to buy at full price.
 
Well, well Peppermonkey. Your list proves my point. Almost all 9/10s. Looks like scores would be a good way for you to decide your purchases. 8)
 
marconelly! said:
Oddworld? The Xbox one? You must be the first person I've heard of actually liking that game... ugh.
I like it. I can't even understand what is not to like about it. It's not as good as their first two games, but that doesn't make it a bad game.

Strange... I totally loved the first two Oddworlds, so I naturally picked up the Xbox one as soon as I bought my Xbox. The game was a total bore! I couldn't stand playing it at all. Its pacing just seems off, and the "fun factor" of the first two is completely missing.
 
Tonight an interesting readers article popped up on RPGDot, just about what we discussed. Nothing groundbreaking but a good, light read:
http://www.rpgdot.com/index.php?hsaction=10053&ID=499

Actually Johnny, its gonna be hard for DOA:XBV to sell more than 120k copies, at least over the next week or two. Why? Because that's how many copies were initially produced for the jap. market. It would be quite funny if demand was higher than supply in this case, almost 2/3rds of the initial shipment are already sold after 1 day, who would've known! Its a shame PDO didn't sell as well in Japan, it should be the far better "game" of the two, Smilebit probably made Orta's breasts too small. Maybe if the dragons had some too ... naaah ;)

Oh BTW BoddoZerg, I also like Oddworld. :p
 
I played the game for a couple of hours and got to say that this game is a tad bit disappointing. The casino part of the game was fun for awhile until it became repitious. The volleyball part of the game is also lacking in the gameplay department, it's not anywhere near as good as Beach Spiker, but I think it should be good enough for people who never played BS. The mini games, accessories, and collecting are the only part in the game that is pretty fun to do.
 
This game is decent 8.5/10 material. I've played it for about an hour now and watched my friends get into it (it's definitely popular around here) and there's hidden depth to the volleyball game. Not massive depth mind you, but enough to keep it interesting. The collecting aspect is well done, but the casino is rather basic. It's fun. I'm still waiting for it to drop to $29.95 though.

From Feenix over at xengamers.com forums:

Volleyball:

Strength: This factors in how hard the character hits the ball. If you've seen Hitomi or Tina blow Kasumi or Ayane into dust then you know whats going on here.

Technique: This is how well they aim. If you're playing Kasumi or Ayane, they aim extremely effeciently. Use this to your advantage.

Defense: This is a characters ability to put the ball back in the air. Characters with higher scores like Leifang and Helena will bounce the ball up to where it can be recieved even if they've been crushed by Hitomi or Tina.

So, given that knowledge.... one should assume that when you're using Kasumi (who has a 5 for technique, but not much strength) you would want to AIM for the open hole. Whereas, if you are Tina (Strength) you want to try to KNOCK the opponent on their ass with a direct spike.)

When you're jumping up to Spike the ball, the Directional stick no longer moves your character. It aims the ball. Aiming is 360 degrees of analog. Up is the part of the court FARTHEST from your (the gamer's) vantage point. Right is deep behind your opponents. Left is close to the net. Down is closest to your (the gamer's) vantage point.

Logically, Blocking is related to size. Keep that in mind when you decide to try and block. Maybe it would be better to just receive.

If you find an opponent has a particular habit of blocking many of your spikes. Spike Feint with "B". Or Tap "A" really lightly.
Also, either spike your ball sooner, and get a slower, but more arched spike, or wait it out if you feel the blocker jumped early.

For player receiving ball closest to net. Holding UP or DOWN while pressing "B" results in a pass that creates the back character jump for a Back Spike.
(If you want your AI partner to set you up for a Back Spike. Then press the Back Spike command before the ball makes contact with your partner. [Please note your partner needs to be closest to net.] )

Pressing Right on the Right Analog stick will command your partner to Cover the net.

Pressing Down, cancels commands and allows AI to React to what you are doing.

Pressing Left commands your AI partner to the Far court.

For more, read this thread: http://forums.xengamers.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=68080
 
I can't believe it. I'm addicted to DOA:XBV!

The volleyball's gotten a lot more fun now that I know what I'm doing. (And now that I have a much better partner. Lisa rocks.)

And all this item collecting is pretty cool, too. Who'd have thought I'd drop Shenmue 2 in favor of playing "dress up" with a bunch of virtual beach babes? 8)

Kolgar
 
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