Do the games suck, or is it just me?

[tuna]

if you look at the latest games of well known franchises you will definitely see polish but you will also see dumbed down mechanics, much more simple level design and lack of challenge: Splinter Cell: Conviction, Hitman Absolution, DmC, Tomb Raider, Ninja Gaiden 3, Final Fantasy 13 are some examples...

How are the mechanics of FF13 "dumbed down" compared to the previous entries of the series?

 

[Snyder]

Good point...Skyrim is not dumbed-down compared to Final Fantasy IV.

Dunno about Skyrim as I haven't played it (and it's supposed to be better in that regard), but Oblivion's level scaling of everything was the epitome of "dumbed-down".

 

[Kameradschaft]

How are the mechanics of FF13 "dumbed down" compared to the previous entries of the series?

Auto-battle option which you can get away with using it for the vast majority of the game, controlling only the party leader, streamlined customization/upgrade system are "dumbing down" IMO.

 

[Davros]

I guess this quote explains the mentality of those people who want simplification

Even if its just one setting to change to make the game run, its one setting too much. My time is too precious to waste fiddling when I have so little time to game anyway.

 

[Billy Idol]

I guess this quote explains the mentality of those people who want simplification

But isn't he right?

 

[Silent_Buddha]

I do not get it. Why would you ever force yourself to play something you do not enjoy?

I hate wasting money. So when I pay for a game, I feel I have to finish it. And I always try to be optimistic and thing the game will improve.

But since games have disappointed me so much the past 5+ years, I've taken to just watching most of them on Youtube. And I'm glad I did. Any game I watch on Youtube where I can watch more than 2-3 hours of it I'll go out and buy. Anything that I can't watch past 2 hours, I certainly wouldn't enjoy playing.

It's not foolproof. I still end up buying something that while spectacular to look at, just had gameplay that I didn't like.

Good point...Skyrim is not dumbed-down compared to Final Fantasy IV. However, there are multiplayer features that N64 FPSes had that COD only recently added. A lot of that was driven by the false belief that no one in America wants to hang out with friends and play video games any more, but at least Treyarch's approach to development is sufficiently data-driven to correct their mistakes in that regard.

Now if only the "playable Michael Bay movie" paradigm would just die already.

Skyrim isn't dumbed down compared to FFIV, but it certainly is hugely dumbed down compared to the first two games in the TES series.

Regards,
SB

 

[milk]

Games are an awfull lot like movies. If you want simple easy entertainment, you go to the closest multiplex and watch some big hollywood blockbuster and you can get some enjoyment out of it. Now if you have watched enough movies, the formulas and cliches will eventually start to become more and more obvious, people who take cinema as casual entertainment won´t mind and will happily ignore it and move on, more serious movie goers will get anoyed or worse, bored by that. In that case, the fault is not on the movie, but on you for going to watch freeking Avengers and expecting some kind of deep intelectual experience out of it. Go rent somethign from Lars Von Trier.
We at beyond3d are serious about playing games. We dedicate time to it, what happens is, our tastes have become more acute. We should play indie games. That´s what I do, and that´s where I take most of my enjoyment out of. When I play AAA games, is when I have little time and whant some quick cheap fun, and in those ocasion I don´t mind the simplification and streamlining one bit. It only makes that kind of gaming experienct better.

 

[Davros]

But isn't he right?

Philosophically probably yes.
but in the real world, would you not play a game because the control layout isnt to your exact preference or would you change it

 

[RenegadeRocks]

I think the problem is that if it is not fun there is no point in persevering. I had more fun beating one optional boss in Gravity Rush (which was really difficult) than beating R3.

If you can think of something more fun to do than playing a particular game you should do that.

That wasn't the point here. The point was that they didn't stop cos it was a borefest, they stopped cos they thought it was too difficult, when its a fact that R3 on normal difficulty is easier than Rfom Easy. They could not get themselves to manage a 'new' gameplay mechanic called 'Health', cos every other 'easier' shooter lets them keep committing mistakes and then hide for some time and return into the game. 'Easier' 'streamlined' games don't expect the player to learn anything and have mechanics to make sure mistakes are not penalised , in fact some games like BL2, as mentioned in OP, are celelbrating mistakes by giving the players Powers which are usable only when they falter in the game and end up dying.

I do not get it. Why would you ever force yourself to play something you do not enjoy?

You like a genre of music, you start listsning to a song: hmmm...feels okay, lets litsen to the full song to decide if it s good or not.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

I guess this quote explains the mentality of those people who want simplification

Yup, thats pretty much it. I paid, give me fun. If there's even one mechinc new to be learnt, its one mechanic too much.

Or atleast, thats what the marketing and Devs are inferring from the market. And frankly, to a certain degree, it is true for the newer gen. It ties in perfectly with what I said earleir about instant gratification and the way each game is getting easier and easier with every iteration.

 

[snarfbot]

remember not so long ago when you would see posts on gaming forums saying something to the effect of "how the hell are you supposed to beat X?"

havent seen that sort of thing much lately.

 

[tuna]

That wasn't the point here. The point was that they didn't stop cos it was a borefest, they stopped cos they thought it was too difficult, when its a fact that R3 on normal difficulty is easier than Rfom Easy. They could not get themselves to manage a 'new' gameplay mechanic called 'Health', cos every other 'easier' shooter lets them keep committing mistakes and then hide for some time and return into the game. 'Easier' 'streamlined' games don't expect the player to learn anything and have mechanics to make sure mistakes are not penalised , in fact some games like BL2, as mentioned in OP, are celelbrating mistakes by giving the players Powers which are usable only when they falter in the game and end up dying.

If they are not having fun they are not having fun. If they would enjoy the act of dying and trying again they would continue doing that. But they do not, maybe because R3 is a pretty mediocre game.

 

[tuna]

You like a genre of music, you start listsning to a song: hmmm...feels okay, lets litsen to the full song to decide if it s good or not.

I think Girls' Generation are the best vocalist group at the moment. I listened to "I got a boy", realised it was a crap song (or two crap songs combined into one) and haven't listened to it since.

Of course, how much time you want to invest in a media work (game, book, TV-series) is always difficult to judge, but if you do not think you will get anything out of it it is better to quit.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

remember not so long ago when you would see posts on gaming forums saying something to the effect of "how the hell are you supposed to beat X?"

havent seen that sort of thing much lately.

Go to the youtube video of how to beat the final boss of Crysis 3. The boss os super easy to beat, u just have to shoot its twntacles when they are hot. Or shoot the eyes. The hit marker gives u ample clue, so does the nano suit , by saying 'Vulnerability detected' when its the best time to stop and shoot. But , yet, look at the comments on that video:

" i have been shooting this *** for 10 mins , nothing happens.'
"I have a legit copy, it doesn't die, the game is broken'

Why? All they do is shoot at it. No way they will apply a single thought to where and when to shoot. Its a small stupid boss battle, but people don't feel like learning a simple thing to beat it. I got a legit copy, why doesn't it die ????

Wow !

 

[RenegadeRocks]

If they are not having fun they are not having fun. If they would enjoy the act of dying and trying again they would continue doing that. But they do not, maybe because R3 is a pretty mediocre game.

I won't continue on this cos what I was saying is diff from where u r taking it. But none of them said the game is boring, they just said it was too difficult. And its not.

I think Girls' Generation are the best vocalist group at the moment. I listened to "I got a boy", realised it was a crap song (or two crap songs combined into one) and haven't listened to it since.

Of course, how much time you want to invest in a media work (game, book, TV-series) is always difficult to judge, but if you do not think you will get anything out of it it is better to quit.

Yes, you listened to the song and decided it was crap. Same way people here play the and decide. There's always a chance of the game improving later as 90% of the games these days have a super prolonged 'tutorial' sections , again to 'gradually introduce mechanics over multiple levels' so that it doesn't get too complicated. Uncharted 2 didn't give me grenades for like 4 levels cos it was explaining the shooting and stealth mechanics !!! WTF ! If I had not persevered, I would have missed out on a great game !

Recently played Crysis 3. The game is so easy on Normal, that people are dismissing it as mundane. Bt play on 'super soldier' and the last few levels are super good. Even the initial levels feel more enjoyable. I think this is th wfirst game where being too easy has backfired on the devs. Bt then it IS ridiculously easy. No challenge, leads to mundane no fun wallking around.

 

[tuna]

Go to the youtube video of how to beat the final boss of Crysis 3. The boss os super easy to beat, u just have to shoot its twntacles when they are hot. Or shoot the eyes. The hit marker gives u ample clue, so does the nano suit , by saying 'Vulnerability detected' when its the best time to stop and shoot. But , yet, look at the comments on that video:

" i have been shooting this *** for 10 mins , nothing happens.'
"I have a legit copy, it doesn't die, the game is broken'

Why? All they do is shoot at it. No way they will apply a single thought to where and when to shoot. Its a small stupid boss battle, but people don't feel like learning a simple thing to beat it. I got a legit copy, why doesn't it die ????

Wow !

You just found out there are idiots on the Internet?

 

[tuna]

I won't continue on this cos what I was saying is diff from where u r taking it. But none of them said the game is boring, they just said it was too difficult. And its not.

I do not understand. They are having fun and they are enjoying themselves but they quit because they die?

 

[Akumajou]

You just found out there are idiots on the Internet?

More like zombies....

I feel that compared to the psx saturn n64 ps2 gamecube and a few xbox 1 games we have lost a lot of advancement in videogames when the obssesion became tacking an online mode on every single player game even if it did not really make sense... I dont mind a few of the bullet sponge bosses but they are a huge problem when you have to hit some idiot prompt to kill then desn

ite all the weapons you are given.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

I do not understand. They are having fun and they are enjoying themselves but they quit because they die?

Is that very difficult to understand? Yu like something but you can't beat it , so what else can you do? Learn the ropes or quit. If people don't have the patience to just learn to manage a health bar, which just requires that u don't keep doing the same thing again and again but improvise, then what else can they do bit quit! When the game has already been made 2 notches easier than before, it becomes quite paradoxical that players are calling it hard in the first place. So what changed? Game was made easier than before, not harder, so it gives the players have changed. Gamer patience is reaching minimal levels.

Its not as if devs don't know that they are dumbing down their games. Didn't Ken Levine say he put in the 1999 mode cos games these days, even his own, have become much much more easier and simpler than before? Even yesterday the devs of th enew XCOM shooter publically said that the games arw too easy now and their game will be 'excrutiatingly hard' , which by the way it won't be thanks to the same market pressures, but they are trying to make thier game sound appealing to gamers.

Isn't that why Dark Souls and Demons Souls has a following and an audience? Because all games have shed thwir challenge? Didn't Drogons Dogma up the difficulty in Dark Arisen since they also realised that there is a public ire rising due to the super simplification of games?

It is not a figment pf our imagination, as some might think. Games are getting easier and easier everyday to the point some games just feel like QTEs, especially the ever popular COD campaigns Just press the buttons at the right time, the challenge will definitely be completed automatically.

 

[RenegadeRocks]

You just found out there are idiots on the Internet?

Or maybe the devs have made it their priority to appease them, since others were already happy with their game but these 'idiots' would dismiss their game. To increase market penetration and sales, they made their games simpler so that these 'idiots' can also play and promote their game. Tier publishers and marketeers would sefinitely like that. Anyways you look at it, games have changed.